Subaru vs everyone

[Eric L.]

Here is a Subaru promotional video, very biased, that features a Murano at around the 8:00 mark. The torque limiting CVT action is clearly in play on the hill climb - and I bet they did not use AWD Lock. I do not know if the Volvo XC70 (the wagon) had a lockable AWD, but I do not know it has a Haldex AWD system like Audi's Quattro. The other cars that did not make the hill climb - the CRV, Highlander, etc...do not have lockable AWD. Subaru on the other hand always has approximately a 50/50 split F/R for the power. Superior AWD? Yes. But not great on gas mileage when you don't need AWD.

In either case, I enjoyed the deadpan sarcasm of the narrator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7dVFY5CxT0

[njjoe]

Wow. If that video accurately depicts just how the MO handles a steep incline from a standing start then I am truly disappointed in the MO. That was a very shameful display. There wasn't even any wheel-spin.

The MO's final drive ratio is an ultra-low 5.173 - 1. That is an extremely low (numerically high) ratio for a final drive. The MO should have had no trouble ascending that slope if it were not for the electronics holding back the VQ's torque. We all knew the CVT was the weak link; I just didn't realize how pampered it was.

I can't believe I am saying this, but..... it looks like the MO is a wimp in designer clothes.

-njjoe

[Eric L.]

Originally posted by njjoe
Wow. If that video accurately depicts just how the MO handles a steep incline from a standing start then I am truly disappointed in the MO. That was a very shameful display. There wasn't even any wheel-spin.

The MO's final drive ratio is an ultra-low 5.173 - 1. That is an extremely low (numerically high) ratio for a final drive. The MO should have had no trouble ascending that slope if it were not for the electronics holding back the VQ's torque. We all knew the CVT was the weak link; I just didn't realize how pampered it was.

I can't believe I am saying this, but..... it looks like the MO is a wimp in designer clothes.

-njjoe

I never expected the MO to be capable offroad - Nissan even advertises it as an urban vehicle. When I bought the MO, I knew 100% that it was basically an Altima station wagon, which I am fine with.

Besides it not like *anyone* would ever climb a hill like that in their normal driving. Again I think the video is misleading because there was no evidence the MO had AWD Lock engaged, nor that it had VDC, both of which would have helped it gain traction without overloading the CVT.

[hfelknor]

Two comments:

1- The Hill climb is a no no. No place for a crossover. This is definitely an Off Road test.

2- Interesting that none of the other tests show the Murano? Maybe because it kicks the Subaru's azz?

Homer

[mgthe3]

naaaaaaaaaaaa, she's not a wimp.

I could have done the hill in my Toyota 4x4 pickup in reverse, with no gas, just click on the AC, it would have done it easily, I did many much steeper than that in the rain on red clay.

And that's just it: I wanted what I got when I got the Mo, had I wanted a hill climber I would have gotten something with locking diffs.

[njjoe]

Eric-

I am the first to acknowledge that the MO is not an SUV and should not venture off road. However, when you consider the fact the wheels were not spinning (so VDC and AWD lock would have had no impact) you can see that the MO did not have the power to handle the incline, even if it were paved. That also means that if the slope was less steep but you were towing a trailer you would find yourself in a torque-limited stall. The video did not show a MO suffering from a lack of traction, it showed a MO suffering from a lack of power.

-njjoe

[njjoe]

Homer-

That was a very interesting omission. My guess is that it performed too well in some of those tests so it was conveniently edited out.

Alright.... so maybe she isn't a total wimp after all.


-njjoe

[Eric L.]

Originally posted by njjoe
Eric-

I am the first to acknowledge that the MO is not an SUV and should not venture off road. However, when you consider the fact the wheels were not spinning (so VDC and AWD lock would have had no impact) you can see that the MO did not have the power to handle the incline, even if it were paved. That also means that if the slope was less steep but you were towing a trailer you would find yourself in a torque-limited stall. The video did not show a MO suffering from a lack of traction, it showed a MO suffering from a lack of power.

-njjoe

We'll never know the full story of why the MO didn't move - its a Subaru promotional video anyways. There was a post here on the forum a while back about a similar situation - steep driveway angling into the garage, trailer attached, MO couldn't move. Finally was able to power it out, but straining to do so.

[njjoe]

Originally posted by Eric L.


We'll never know the full story of why the MO didn't move - its a Subaru promotional video anyways. There was a post here on the forum a while back about a similar situation - steep driveway angling into the garage, trailer attached, MO couldn't move. Finally was able to power it out, but straining to do so.

E-

The electronics are protecting the drivetrain (CVT). My personal belief is that Nissan is very concerned with the projected longevity of the CVT so they have done everything they can to minimize stress on it. That is why the MO utilizes the unique throttle-by-wire system. It is much easy to monitor and control throttle input as compared to a mechanical linkage.

I also remember that thread about the member who could not toe the trailer up a slope. From what I recall he also did not experience any wheel spin.

This weekend I plan to find the steepest paved road in the area and see how the MO takes off from a standing start.

-njjoe

[Kris]

OK, I watched the video twice. But before I make any comments let’s me say a number of years ago I seriously looked at Subaru Liberty (Legacy here) as a car for my wife. It had a great review in Australian magazines and it did perform well on unsealed roads. What I did not like about it was: price, interior design, interior quality and in general the feel of the car. However, there is no denial that the car did perform well off road. Why did we not get it? We really wanted a car for normal driving.

Now, get back to the video…….there is only one word to describe it – biased! It was specifically designed to show advantages of Subaru. I know it is not a bad car but the video is very biased. I can design a test for any equipment that will show its advantage over competition! And that is what was done here.

I do have to admit that performance of Murano was very disappointing. It only confirms how conservative Nissan engineers were with the CVT. Imagine what the car would be like with 6-speed “classic” auto-tranny….add grade logic control, adaptive/learning algorithm and we would have a great performing drive train….then again Murano was designed as a “road car”, not for rock climbing. I you want one get Nissan Pathfinder or Extera. Or even better a Patrol.

[Eric L.]

Originally posted by njjoe


This weekend I plan to find the steepest paved road in the area and see how the MO takes off from a standing start.

-njjoe

100% agree on the electronics protecting the CVT. The throttle by wire, however, has been on the Altima since 2002, so its not CVT specific. Sure the CVT probably works better with it, but as we've seen here, the electronic throttle body also fails from time to time.

If you do manage to get the MO stuck on a steep hill, I'm curious to see what difference the following settings would make:

1) Ds/L gear
2) AWD Lock on/off
3) VDC on/off

[Gonzo]

I feel a test coming on.......

[njjoe]

Originally posted by Gonzo
I feel a test coming on.......

Hah!! This is on the opposite side of the road-test spectrum for you.

This is no 135 mph high-speed, up-against-the-limiter test. This is an acceleration test from zero to one mph. I am curious to see if our beloved CVT-equipped MOs can even crawl up a steep, paved hill without the engine-management electronics strangling the VQ to the brink of unconsciousness.

Anyone have any really steep hills in their area?

-njjoe

[risaralda]

Here in San Francisco. I'll see if I can do it this week-end, let you know.

[Eric L.]

If someone here does manage to pull of an amazing hill climbing feat with the MO, get it on video and we'll put it up on youtube.