Low RPM Engine Knock and vibration in the interior dash - Page 4 - Nissan Murano Forum
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#46 Old 10-21-2011, 06:21 PM
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Hi everyone,

So my ping problem has been going on for a long time. I've been troubleshooting it on my own but am finally at a loss. I was hoping for some guidance as i take it to a dealer as this is somehting that could cost me a fortune for no result.

A summary...

-tach jumps after acceleration, foot first off gas, sometimes
-engine ping, low throttle, low speed 20-40kms per hr
-i'm assuming its ping, i read someones suggestion that it could be the timing chain. it could be. i've been told the chain is tensioned by a oil pressure tensioner. if it's faulty it could cause slack but if there any way to know without opening it up? also if say the oil pump wasn't building enough pressure would this trigger the service light 100%?

What I've tried...

acetone in a few tanks
seafoam in a few tanks

i bought a bully dog GT tuner, someone suggested using it to retard my timing, when I do at -5 degrees the noise is completely gone, does this mean it is in fact ping? buickGN is this similar to your experience? you wrote that the improvement might be weather related, was it?

I did a oil engine flush and at the same time installed a OEM filter that was off of a nissan altima. it was teh same diameter but longer. when i went back to question the dealer they said this wasn't a mistake as they sell a larger filter if you have room for it(who knows if he was being honest) the end result MARKED difference!!! I thought 4sure it was the flush so the next weekend I decided to do another one to get rid of the last little bit of noise. at that time a quaker state filter went in as i didn't have time to make it to a dealer...problem instantly returned with a vengence...no worst than original but no better. i don't know what to make sense of this, longer filter=improved ping reduction?

I took it to a dealer along time ago. they said that a number that appeared on their scan was slightly out of range, not enough to trip the engine light but not normal. they said this number could point to a faulty MAF sensor. I've cleaned it several times since and all but completely submerged it overnight. I feel I've cleaned it well. I've done idle relearns afterwards. no difference.

Buickgn was saying he thought his cleaning cleared up both his throttle bounce and ping problems. this gives me hope. my hang up is cleaning doesn't seem to work so mine may be faulty beyond a clean??? is there anyway to test this? I would have bought one a long time ago but they are $500!!! stiff to only not be the problem. do i have to buy the OEM air mass sensor? a aftermark on online is a lot cheaper. The dealer I saw said i "may" need to have a computer reset after and it's best if i let them install it. is this true or a line he fed me for business?

thank you all for you help
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#47 Old 10-21-2011, 06:38 PM
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one think i didnt' mention is at times at idle the engine runs rough, very faintly almost to a point i don't know if i'm imagining it but over the year it's happened enough that i know it to be true.

i looked at pricing again. a MAF sensor is 450 from nissan and a hitatchi is $205. do i need the oem one?
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#48 Old 10-22-2011, 08:05 PM
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Wow that's a mouthful!!!

I don't think I can be of much help but for a few items.

If you have good result with the Nissan filter, why did you replace it? If it was an older one from the Altima, my suggestion is to instantly get another one, and yes the bigger the better!!! Here is a case where "bigger is better" in 2 ways larger filter surface and larger volume of oil when starting.

One thing to look for in an oil filter is a rubber flap which prevents oil from draining back into the pan, and thus oil needs to be filled into and fill the filter before it reaches the oil galleries. Cheap filters may not have this.

But why this would have any effect on your "pinging" is not immediately obvious to me.

You may have provided the engine mileage but I didn't see it. Is it a high mileage engine? As others have told you, I'm sure, timing and carbon deposits on valves and combustion chamber piston top and head can cause all kinds of pinging, those of you who have driven 2 stroke engines know what I'm talking about.

Your engine cleaner will NOT clean this! You mention acetone in the gas, I have never heard of this before, it may work, but if it's a serious deposit, then a single treatment won't be enough IMHO

I just recalled another item, do you run on 87 octane gasoline? I have only done that once, and had bad performance, which might be exactly like your issue, and never run on anything less than 91 since. I have not heard any pinging in all the years I have driven it, and oh BTW I do add gas additive to clean the intake valves and combustion chamber approx every 3 months.

I have the hunch that a lot of you are using 87 and it doesn't like it, try 91 for a couple of months and your problem might disappear. just my 2 cents on this particular topic.

That's about as much as I can come up with
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#49 Old 11-08-2011, 03:57 AM
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Thanks for your input.

I switched filters cause I thought that the improvement was the flush not the filter. I've since did a 3rd flush and now have the larger oem filter on. I bought off a different rep in the same dealership and he thought it odd that I wanted a different spec filter which confirms my suspicions that the first rep messed up by grabbing the wrong filter and instead of being honest made up a story that they always sell the different filter. The result of all this is the same improvement I initially saw but still pings although lighter, faintly.

I've also since installed a new MAF sensor. Which had no improvements to the ping or tach bounce but a very cheap thing to do($123) and I think it helped overall performance a bit. I did a idle relearn again after install.

I always use 91 octane and it has 106000 kms on it.

So I'm kinda just thinking that it is what it is and i'm not gonna be able to get better. If i take it to a dealer again I don't believe they'll find anything more than the nothing they found the first time. Sometimes cars just have quirks.

But to recap, if anyone has any more suggestions...

1)ping on light throttle, only in the 1000-2000 rpm
2) on start up tach goes crazy bounce settles down, at same time engine revs kinda high. after letting off throttle tach at times, but pretty consistently, jumps around. Dealer confirmed when this happens engine isn't responding to it. it's not the tach itself because bully dog programer, installed after the fact, has a tach reading that bounces along with stock tach.
3)kinda rough idle rarely at idle.
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#50 Old 11-08-2011, 03:59 AM
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also, ping is never heard with a cold engine.
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#51 Old 04-08-2012, 08:13 PM
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Engine Knocking from Chile (SouthAmerica) / Help please

Hi

I have the same problem with my engine, Im from Chile, I have a Nissan Murano 2006 model with VQ35DE engine.

I have read a lot of posts and information about these problem so I have change the 2 fuel dampers (new, original Nissan part) and also change the six spark plugs one step colder (NGK LFR6AIX-11). First I change the spark plugs, no solution to my problem, then I change the 2 fuel dampers and the engine is still knocking.

I really like the Nissan Murano, but i cant fix the engine knocking.

About 6 months ago, when the engine was already knocking the first thing I do was advanced timing in 2 degrees, now my engine is supposedly set in 17, from factory is set at 15.

One mechanic that work in a Nissan Dealership said my that when they advanced my engine timing 2 degrees, this is only done by the Nissan Consult only for testing, and so my engine is not set at 17, is still in 15. (Im not sure about these information)


The next step Im going to do is go to a Nissan Dealer and connect the consult, to now what timing is set my engine, if it is 17, the mechanic is wrong.

I want now retard the engine timing, maybe Im going to put again in 15 or maybe 14, to know if these fixes my engine knocking.


Do someone have really fix these problem of engine knocking?

How can I solve these problem?


Waiting for your replys


thanks
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#52 Old 04-08-2012, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelaochile View Post
Hi

I have the same problem with my engine, Im from Chile, I have a Nissan Murano 2006 model with VQ35DE engine.

I have read a lot of posts and information about these problem so I have change the 2 fuel dampers (new, original Nissan part) and also change the six spark plugs one step colder (NGK LFR6AIX-11). First I change the spark plugs, no solution to my problem, then I change the 2 fuel dampers and the engine is still knocking.

I really like the Nissan Murano, but i cant fix the engine knocking.

About 6 months ago, when the engine was already knocking the first thing I do was advanced timing in 2 degrees, now my engine is supposedly set in 17, from factory is set at 15.

One mechanic that work in a Nissan Dealership said my that when they advanced my engine timing 2 degrees, this is only done by the Nissan Consult only for testing, and so my engine is not set at 17, is still in 15. (Im not sure about these information)


The next step Im going to do is go to a Nissan Dealer and connect the consult, to now what timing is set my engine, if it is 17, the mechanic is wrong.

I want now retard the engine timing, maybe Im going to put again in 15 or maybe 14, to know if these fixes my engine knocking.


Do someone have really fix these problem of engine knocking?

How can I solve these problem?


Waiting for your replys


thanks
With an engine that is knocking, retarding the timing avoids knock. Switching to a colder range plug (less insulator) usually has a very minimal effect on avoiding detonation.

Maybe you can check the condition of the knock sensor too.

2003 Midnight Blue SE AWD w/VDC
Colgan Bra, Mobil One, JWT POP charger
PAC aux input adapter, hardwired Escort Passport x50, KUDA mount for MP3 player, Porterfield R4S brake pads (now Akebono ProACT), ATE Superblue
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#53 Old 04-08-2012, 09:48 PM
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Thanks Eric for the answer.

This Monday or Thuesday I will go to a Nissan Dealer to connect the Nissan Consult (II or III) to my Murano and set the timing back to 15 (factory setting) o maybe 14, to test if the knocking problem in my engine disappears.

Like other members that have this problem, we all dont now why when the engine is cold (first minutes drive in the morning, or first start with the engine cold), the engine dont have this engine knocking problem. The knock appears only with the engine in normal work temperature.

One question: Can I have my knock sensor in bad condition and get no code error in the Nissan Consult? Is not supposed that if my knock sensor is bad I have the MIL light in the dashboard iluminated?

thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric L. View Post
With an engine that is knocking, retarding the timing avoids knock. Switching to a colder range plug (less insulator) usually has a very minimal effect on avoiding detonation.

Maybe you can check the condition of the knock sensor too.
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#54 Old 04-08-2012, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by pelaochile View Post
Thanks Eric for the answer.

This Monday or Thuesday I will go to a Nissan Dealer to connect the Nissan Consult (II or III) to my Murano and set the timing back to 15 (factory setting) o maybe 14, to test if the knocking problem in my engine disappears.

Like other members that have this problem, we all dont now why when the engine is cold (first minutes drive in the morning, or first start with the engine cold), the engine dont have this engine knocking problem. The knock appears only with the engine in normal work temperature.

One question: Can I have my knock sensor in bad condition and get no code error in the Nissan Consult? Is not supposed that if my knock sensor is bad I have the MIL light in the dashboard iluminated?

thanks
Detonation (knocking) occurs when the heat of compression causes the fuel to ignite before the spark plug fires. This is worsened when the engine is hot, obviously. That's why there is no knocking when the engine is cold. Also, as the engine is warming up, it runs a richer fuel mixture which is more resistant to premature ignition. At operating temperature, the computer leans mixture which is more prone to knocking.

There is no code for the knock sensor, I believe. And even if there is, it is an internal ECU code with no check engine light. Consult can find it, but the best diagnostic is the one in the shop manual where a simulated knock (hitting the engine block with a wrench actually) should trigger the knock sensor to throw off a voltage signal to the ECU.

Something else worth checking out is the condition of your cooling system. Is the coolant temp sensor in good order? How about the thermostat? If the engine is running hotter than it should be, then knocking can be an issue.

2003 Midnight Blue SE AWD w/VDC
Colgan Bra, Mobil One, JWT POP charger
PAC aux input adapter, hardwired Escort Passport x50, KUDA mount for MP3 player, Porterfield R4S brake pads (now Akebono ProACT), ATE Superblue
Yokohama Envigor (much improved over stock Goodyears)
Lots of squeaks and rattles.
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#55 Old 04-08-2012, 10:33 PM
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A consideration about the cooling system.

I had already change all the refrigerant with a new one about 10 months ago, using Prestone antifreeze concentraded and destilled water, I use 50% of Prestone concentraded and 50% of destilled water. Maybe I dont have to use 50% of antifreeze, I have read that more antifreeze you put in the cooling system, the heat transfer is worse, ok is better to have a less freezing point temperature, but is worse for heat transfer. In my city the less temperature I have is 0 degrees Celcious (32 fahrenheit) so maybe is better to use 70% destilled water and 30% for antifreeze.

I would change again the coolant of the cooling system these days

thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric L. View Post
Detonation (knocking) occurs when the heat of compression causes the fuel to ignite before the spark plug fires. This is worsened when the engine is hot, obviously. That's why there is no knocking when the engine is cold. Also, as the engine is warming up, it runs a richer fuel mixture which is more resistant to premature ignition. At operating temperature, the computer leans mixture which is more prone to knocking.

There is no code for the knock sensor, I believe. And even if there is, it is an internal ECU code with no check engine light. Consult can find it, but the best diagnostic is the one in the shop manual where a simulated knock (hitting the engine block with a wrench actually) should trigger the knock sensor to throw off a voltage signal to the ECU.

Something else worth checking out is the condition of your cooling system. Is the coolant temp sensor in good order? How about the thermostat? If the engine is running hotter than it should be, then knocking can be an issue.
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#56 Old 12-11-2012, 11:29 PM
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Well it's been 2 highly recommended local Techs and 4 trips to Nissan dealer in Detroit Area and still no resolve.
During the cold weather it does not knock/ping but as soon as the temps got into the mid to upper 30s the ping was back. Took it to the dealer and I can't replicate it and there is NO codes and the Tech said the timing is dead nuts.
Also it is now burning about 1 quart of oil every 1000 city mile driving.

I have a possible new development that I'm thinking may be an issue.
When I drive the car in the morning or when the engine temp is below normal range the car does not ping, as soon as the temp reaches normal the engine operating RPM changes and the ping is there. It seems fuel related but I'm not sure, if I run cheap gas it pings with a vengeance. When cold the RPM's on take off are around 1800 to 2000 and the second the normal range is reached the take off RPM's change to 1500 and come down to 1100 before going back up as i accelerate and it pings like there is no tomorrow, if I get on it ....no ping.

So, my question is this, what controls the engine RPM when the temp reaches normal? I know the trans does not shift but the RPM's act like the car is shifting and at slow speeds that is when I get my ping, and I'd I lightly apply the brake to put a load on it there is no ping.

Totally Lost
Tim.
(I would accept any phone calls on this issue if anyone wants to discuss it because I'm not really good at typing a good description of the issue.)
I have this EXACT same issue with the 05 Murano I just bought for my wife. It just occurred to me this evening that this was the issue, and it's freaking me out. I've got a pretty nasty knock going on, but I'm using cheap fuel.

Did anyone figure this out yet?
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#57 Old 12-12-2012, 12:20 AM
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I did a little more browsing and I ran across this thread. It's got some pretty useful stuff in there if anyone's interested. I'll have to give some of these suggestions a shot. VQ Engine Ping / Knock - Nissanhelp.com Forums
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