03-07 MO Acceleration Hesitation -- The Rest Of The Story - Nissan Murano Forum
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#1 Old 04-20-2012, 10:38 PM
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Exclamation 03-07 MO Acceleration Hesitation -- The Rest Of The Story

Alright folks...we've all been wondering what is truly behind the 03-07 MO acceleration hesitation issue. Some have said it's the Throttle Body (TB), others have said it's the ground points under the dash, others have come forward recently and say it's the CVT valve body. Unfortunately we don't know which will solve it until now. To make a long story short, depending on what your MO does while it's hesitating will determine on how you fix it.

I started experiencing the acceleration hesitation issue over a year ago. The hesitation was not followed by the Service Engine Soon (SES) light on my gauge cluster. At the time, I figured swapping out the TB would fix it. After seeing it come back and talking to the technician manager at my local dealership, you have to experience the following before swapping out the throttle body, dash grounds, or the gas pedal itself:

1) Hesitation while accelerating from a stop or while driving.
2) The Service Engine Soon (SES) light illuminates on your gauge cluster
3) You pull codes from the Engine Control Module (ECM) and get either a code for the gas pedal or a accelerator pedal position code.

Chances are that if you get the accelerator pedal position code, you'll need to swap out the TB first and then go after the dash grounds. Reference my how-to thread to swap out the TB:

How To -- Throttle Body, Spark Plugs, Firewall Valve Cover

Now on to the fun part. After swapping out my TB a while ago, the acceleration hesitation issue came back! I was about to go after the grounds under the dash until I read the following thread:

Hesitation when accelerating

Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) NTB05-084A was mentioned in the thread. The TSB describes what conditions need to be met before it's applicable:

1) Hesitation while accelerating from a stop or while driving.
2) The Service Engine Soon (SES) light is not illuminated on your gauge cluster.
3) Code P0868 is stored in the Transmission Control Module (TCM).

I knew I met 2 of the 3 conditions right off the bat. I was experiencing the acceleration hesitation and the SES light was not illuminated. Unfortunately, in order to meet condition number 3, you have to go to a Nissan dealership in order to get the codes pulled from the TCM using their Consult-II scanner. Fortunately enough for me, they read 4 instances of the P0868 code. So, since I'm still within the 10 year 120,000 mile warranty for the CVT, the dealership agreed to swap out the entire CVT and reprogram the TCM per the TSB.

Yes...I said it...they're swapping out the ENTIRE CVT! The technician manager I talked to said they swap out the entire CVT to guarantee the hesitation issue will not come back. He gave a 50/50 chance the hesitation will return if they swapped out only the CVT's valve body. In their experience, they've swapped out multiple CVT valve bodies in the past only to have to swap out the CVT itself because the hesitation returns. I guess with all the updates Nissan has done to the CVT itself, swapping out the entire thing will guarantee you have all the updates.

So my new/rebuilt CVT should be in next week Friday, then they'll take a couple days to swap it out starting Monday the following week. They even agreed to put me in a loaner or rental vehicle free of charge since we're a one car family.

So, in conclusion, if you're experiencing hesitation without a SES light on your dash, GET YOUR MO's TCM SCANNED!!! Especially if you're still under the extended CVT warranty. This acceleration hesitation issue is a PITA so you'll be greatly served by taking the time to get it checked.

Sorry for the long post, hopefully someone out there will find this summary useful.

After 142K miles, my MO is history. Now sporting a loaded silver 2012 Ford Edge Limited with 20" wheels.
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#2 Old 04-21-2012, 12:11 AM
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This is will be very helpful to all folks getting close to their cvt extended warranty expiration. If they experience any hint of hesitation get the dealer to check for the code P0868 either stored or do an onboard diagnostic--while car is running. Hold off on TB--throttle body--replacements also, until this code has been eliminated as the culprit--better troubleshooting route.

I was wondering, can't remember if it was mentioned in your other post but did you ever had any TB related codes come up on your MO? I just thought that unless you are doing any mod on your intake or neglecting it, the TB or the sensor in there is not a common failure item.
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#3 Old 04-21-2012, 09:56 AM
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Swapping out an entire transmission just because a valve body is bad is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. No wonder Nissan's are so expensive, junking an entire transmission because a single part is bad.

Who's brilliant idea was this anyway? And where are all of these old transmissions going? Idiotic!

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#4 Old 04-21-2012, 10:15 AM
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Nitely -- My MO has never thrown any TB codes. At the point I experienced the hesitation issue the first time I was unaware of the TSB. Live and learn right?

Halwg -- They're swapping out the entire CVT because of past experience. The dealership's experience has been if they swap out the valve body only, there is a good chance the hesitation issue will come back. The technician manager went to a certification class not too long ago and had a chance to talk with one of the Nissan engineers behind the CVT's design. He states that the CVT's hate hills and heat. Unfortunately here in NM, we have both! So the Nissan CVT engineers have been making numerous updates to the entire CVT both in the valve body and other areas internally. Swapping out just the valve body would be just one set of updates. To get them all, as well as the software update to the TCM, they swap out the entire CVT now. The used CVT is then sent back somewhere to be completely rebuilt. Then is put back into service afterwards. Makes sense to me considering the CVT in the 03-07 MO's is their first generation design. Over the years it makes sense to make upgrades depending on what data comes back from the field.

Only thing I can say, is thank goodness Nissan extended their warranty. In my opinion, it speaks really highly in how Nissan takes care of their customers.

After 142K miles, my MO is history. Now sporting a loaded silver 2012 Ford Edge Limited with 20" wheels.
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#5 Old 04-22-2012, 10:44 AM
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Warhammer-

Nice work.

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#6 Old 04-22-2012, 12:00 PM
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Thanks Njjoe!

After thinking about it, might I recommend making this a sticky. Would be unfortunate to have the information buried in the forum.

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#7 Old 04-22-2012, 12:22 PM
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war,

I don't the luxury of time to read the previous posts.. How's the hesitation feel like i.e. total loss of power, just unresponsive for 1-5 secs when take off, etc?

As I posted before I also feel hesitation when I got the MO (model yr. '12) I checked with the dealer and they told me it operates normal BUT I still feel hesitation especially while turning.. I indicated on my thread that to counter act, I step more on the gas which I believe remedied my concern.. others also stated that on a dead stop it will take some sec to take off--- which I also experienced..

seems like ALL CVT will exhibit hesitation with NO SES and mine is brand new..

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#8 Old 04-22-2012, 10:16 PM
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Unusual...the TSB only mentions the 03-07 MO's. It's not like the new MO's to have this same symptom from what I've read.

I think you've hit it on the head. Hit the gas pedal and it's stand still for a few seconds then the MO races off. You can completely floor it and it will still take a couple seconds for the MO to catch up. Does your failure happen all the time? If so, then you should ask your dealership to send a tech on the road with you with the Consult-II hooked up. Maybe they'll find something.

Hopefully this trend doesn't plague all Nissan CVT's. They're pretty much banking the CVT technology is good considering how many models they have it in now.

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#9 Old 04-22-2012, 11:06 PM
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Our 2011, although a slug off the line before becoming a screamer once moving, suffers no hesitation problems at all. Once I got used to the CVT, I'm really liking it. It's different, no doubt about it. It takes some getting used to but works quite well IMO.

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#10 Old 04-23-2012, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halwg View Post
Swapping out an entire transmission just because a valve body is bad is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
I can understand how you feel that way. But if changing the valve body is a 50/50 proposition, it helps me understand why Nissan made that decision.

Increasingly, the car world is like the electronics world - instead of disassembling a unit and replacing a bad part, manufacturers prefer to replace the entire unit. It saves them labor cost, and I suspect that in many cases they prefer to rely on the assembly process rather than a mechanic of unknown skill levels working on a bench in a dealership. Remember that the manufacturer's parts cost for a transmission is much less than 50 percent of the retail cost.

Nissan isn't the only manufacturer that takes this approach - it's not unusual for any car manufacturer...and we all know of other devices where it's common.

To me, major downsides of this are that (1) shop manuals are becoming less helpful for those of us who really do want to disassemble something and only replace the faulty part, and (2) in some cases, no parts other than the entire unit are available from the manufacturer. This puts us into a wrecking yard to buy a unit containing the needed part (or to replace as one piece).

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#11 Old 04-23-2012, 10:57 AM
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I wonder if these CVTs they are swapping out are then going back to the manufacturer for a rebuild? I just can't see throwing away an entire transmission over one part. It certainly isn't cost effective or politically correct!

I also wonder how we could find out how many, or what percentage, of CVTs actually are faulty.

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#12 Old 04-23-2012, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halwg View Post
I wonder if these CVTs they are swapping out are then going back to the manufacturer for a rebuild? I just can't see throwing away an entire transmission over one part. It certainly isn't cost effective or politically correct!

I also wonder how we could find out how many, or what percentage, of CVTs actually are faulty.
The CVTs are returned to JATCO to be refurbished.

Several members have reported getting refurbs when their CVTs were replaced. It is also the less-costly option when out-of-warranty.

Since it is a factory-refurb it would be as good as new, especially when you consider the failure may have been caused by a non-mechanical component.

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#13 Old 04-23-2012, 02:28 PM
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The tech manager at the dealership said the used CVT will be shipped back somewhere. He didn't know where since it's not his department. I'd be surprised if it ships directly back to Jatco. I'm assuming it will go back to the Nissan parts warehouse somewhere and then get routed back to Jatco. Wouldn't be surprised if it's gutted, analyzed, completely rebuilt, then put back into another MO somewhere else.

After 142K miles, my MO is history. Now sporting a loaded silver 2012 Ford Edge Limited with 20" wheels.
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#14 Old 04-26-2012, 04:33 PM
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CVT arrived yesterday! Have an appointment to get the CVT swapped out tomorrow morning. The technician manager said he's going to try to get the work done before he leaves in the afternoon! We'll see how it goes. If all else fails and he takes more time then Reliable Nissan promised to put me in a comparable loaner or a rental.

Can't wait to see how the new CVT feels!

After 142K miles, my MO is history. Now sporting a loaded silver 2012 Ford Edge Limited with 20" wheels.
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#15 Old 04-27-2012, 01:20 PM
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Well...didn't bring in the MO to be serviced today unfortunately. Youngest son (8mo) came down with a bad chest cough and had to go to the doctor sometime today. So today is shot. And tomorrow, my oldest son (5yrs) has 2 birthday parties. Oh well.

Will drop it off on Monday...

After 142K miles, my MO is history. Now sporting a loaded silver 2012 Ford Edge Limited with 20" wheels.
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