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-   -   Synthetic oil and how often to change it...? (http://www.nissanmurano.org/forums/68-maintenance/10077-synthetic-oil-how-often-change.html)

Nuf.Evah 10-27-2007 12:49 PM

Synthetic oil and how often to change it...?
 
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From all that I hear synthetic oil lasts sooo much longer than regular oil. I have mine changed every 4000-4500 miles but know the synthetic can go much longer but the hockey puc sized oil filter scares me from waiting any longer!!! Anyone got anything to say about this???

mgthe3 10-27-2007 01:14 PM

some folks say 5k some say 7k-- miles that is.

IMHO
ANY oil begins to get a bit cheesy at 4500; they store contaminates like gasoline and nastiness that does not evaporate.
Smell your oil next time you change it at 4500, you CAN smell the nastiness. If not, you have perfect ring and valve sealing--which is ultra rare.
I use synthetic because of the flow when cold (where most of the wear happens) and hot (because it doesn't thin when hot) and the film strength (which is arguably better than dino), which is what you use the oil for.
I change it between 4 and 5k, like you.
If it were dino I would change it at 3 to 4k.

rtking 10-27-2007 01:22 PM

I change mine every 5K miles and do a tire rotation at the same time. I use Mobil 1 synthetic which could go longer, but have you seen the size of the oil filter?!? I don't think I'd keep that filter on any longer than 5K miles...

Bob

hfelknor 10-27-2007 01:59 PM

Change synthetic every 5000 miles.
It has nothing to do with the filter.
It has everything to do with mgthe3s reasoning.

MOST of the time, I take many many short trips in the 5000 miles.
That's many, many times I turn off the engine and the unburnt gasoline runs down the cylinder walls into the oil .
Also with short trips there is always the possibility that the block collects condensation...which also flows into the oil.

IF I was going out on the road, and drive all highway, I would have no qualms in going 10,000 miles between oil/filter changes (There is nothing wrong with the filter)

But, short trips dictate short intervals.

Homer

njjoe 10-27-2007 02:27 PM

Never_enuf-

I use Mobile-1 oil and filter, and change it every 7,500 miles, the maximum interval recommended by Nissan.

Don't worry about the size of the filter. It's not the size of the filter that matters, it is the surface area and filtering properties that are most important.

Thanx to the CVT the VQ is a slow revving engine. The total RPMS are less per mile than your typical car.

-njjoe

Kris 10-27-2007 05:13 PM

I use Mobil1 oil and filter. Change every 5,000 miles though I do mostly highway driving.

Reasons? See Homer and mgthe3 posts...

Right now Murano has 90,000 miles and engines sounds and pulls better than ever.

Eric L. 10-28-2007 02:57 PM

I do 4-5k intervals on Mobil One, and Nissan OEM filter. Zero problems on the MO with 42k miles and zero problems on my Maxima with the same regimen over 120k miles.

special-k 10-29-2007 11:37 AM

I was down at the Mercedes dealer this past weekend looking at the new C300.

The salesman told me that you only need to change the oil every 13,000 miles.

Why in the world would anyone let it go that long? More importantly, why would a manufacturer actually recommend that for its cars?

Eric L. 10-29-2007 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by special-k
I was down at the Mercedes dealer this past weekend looking at the new C300.

The salesman told me that you only need to change the oil every 13,000 miles.

Why in the world would anyone let it go that long? More importantly, why would a manufacturer actually recommend that for its cars?

I'm sure it uses an oil life monitor, which calculates oil wear based on number of starts, operating environment, and driving patterns. So 13,000 is likely an average. It would less with stop and go driving, and more with highway driving, but its all automatic.

Also, many European cars use synthetic oil from the factory, and also have a huge oil capacity (over 5 qts), which naturally extends the life of the oil.

special-k 10-29-2007 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eric L.


I'm sure it uses an oil life monitor, which calculates oil wear based on number of starts, operating environment, and driving patterns. So 13,000 is likely an average. It would less with stop and go driving, and more with highway driving, but its all automatic.

Also, many European cars use synthetic oil from the factory, and also have a huge oil capacity (over 5 qts), which naturally extends the life of the oil.

I did consider all that... but I still wouldn't do that to my car. If you're going to spend that much money on a car, why not drop $30 bucks every 2-3 months for fresh oil?

Even if it's a waste of money and doesn't /need/ to be changed... I think I'd rather err on the side of keeping my oil too clean. *shrug*

Eric L. 10-29-2007 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by special-k


I did consider all that... but I still wouldn't do that to my car. If you're going to spend that much money on a car, why not drop $30 bucks every 2-3 months for fresh oil?

Even if it's a waste of money and doesn't /need/ to be changed... I think I'd rather err on the side of keeping my oil too clean. *shrug*

Yeah I agree with you, but then I have been called, by some, a follower of the "over maintenance cult." Here! :D :D

Nuf.Evah 10-29-2007 12:08 PM

I question our mindset!!!
 
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I often wonder if it isn't just our mindset to change oil every 3,000 miles of years gone by that isn't still haunting us! The synthetic oil is fat superior to plain oil and I would think can last much longer. I think in it's formulating they took everything into consideration so I believe we could run longer without changing the synthetic oil but I can't get past 4500 miles and I start getting jittery about it and have to have it changed! Tire rotation at the same time and while it's in for one it needs to get the other. The tire rotation keeps me going in if nothing else!!! LLLOOOLLL!!! Damned if you do and damned if you don't...$$$

RayH 10-29-2007 12:17 PM

If your PCV valve is working correctly and the engine gets fully warmed up any water or gas in the oil evaporates and is burned by the engine.

If you're really concerned about filtration, install an oil bypass filtration unit. I have one in another car and the oil on the dipstick is still clear 3000 miles after an oil change.

hfelknor 10-29-2007 12:22 PM

Somebody here had an Amsoil filtration unit installed and took it out.
poorly designed and made a lot of noise as I understood it.

Mobil 1 sez that Mercedes not only keeps track of the starts/stops etc, but actually measures the contaminants in the oil too.......

I would like to believe that,but it's hard..........

Homer

Kris 10-29-2007 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RayH
I have one in another car and the oil on the dipstick is still clear 3000 miles after an oil change.

Actually the colour of the oil does not mean much. VQ engines are notorious of "blacking" up oils. Just check the dipstic after 500 miles after oil change. You will be surprise how black it is.

However, I do agree wit the statement that water do evaporate and gets burned my engine once it is warmed up.

I think I did say it before that Mobil tested Mobil1 for longevity and it lasted approximately 30,000 miles in an internal combustion engine. I do not know what type of engine or who the manufacturer was.

Amsoil claims that their synthetic last 20,000 miles.

It is entirely possible that we can stretch OCI (oil change intervals) to 10,000 or even more miles. I just do not want to take any chances.

I read somewhere that GM's oil file monitor is very good. One guy said that after driving a few thousands mile the remaining life of oil indicated it would last at least 13,000 miles. I do not how does it work or how reliable it is. Does it respond to different types of oil? Synthetic v. dyno? Do not know.

We all have been conditioned by 3,000 miles oil changes. It is hard to change.

Anyway, if one goes with OEM recommendations one cannot got wrong.....or so would appear...

njjoe 10-29-2007 03:38 PM

Re: I question our mindset!!!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Nuf.Evah
I often wonder if it isn't just our mindset to change oil every 3,000 miles of years gone by that isn't still haunting us!
I agree with you.

Automobiles engines continue to evolve and are significantly advanced from those manufactured two decades ago. Thanks to advances in metallurgy, chemistry, and manufacturing, engines of today are hardier and require less maintenance. Twenty years ago who would have thought spark plugs could last 50,000 miles, let alone 105,000 miles.

Metallurgy has given us better bearings; Chemistry has given us the molybdenum coating on the piston skirts, and the superior synthetic oils; Manufacturing has given us the micro-finishing used on the crank and camshafts.

Mindsets are difficult to change. It wasn't that long ago that synthetic oil was shunned by the public. Even now there are people who refuse to believe it's claims.

-njjoe

njjoe 10-29-2007 03:46 PM

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Quote:

Originally posted by hfelknor
Somebody here had an Amsoil filtration unit installed and took it out. poorly designed and made a lot of noise as I understood it.
Homer

Homer-

ekaxel had the AMSOIL dual-filter unit. He ran AMSOIL 0W30 with an additional 1.5 quarts and a 10,000 mile interval. It looked like a pretty slick (no pun intended) installation. Too bad it was too noisy.

-njjoe

Photo courtesy of ekaxel:

ekaxel 10-29-2007 05:07 PM

I don't know what is wrong with me! I was NEVER conditioned by 3000 mile oil changes. I change my Amsoil Series 2000 0W30 (a 35000 mile oil with Amsoil Ea0 filtration) about once a year. I use the Ea036 (2/1/2 times the capacity of the Nissan filter). The last chasnge 2 weeks ago was at 8800 miles/11 months.
BTW: I was the guy with the big bypass unit. The design was great, but for some reason (my installation required max length connection hoses), it made a very annoying whistle/moan. I finally took it out because of the funny niose.

Nuf.Evah 10-29-2007 07:38 PM

Ekaxel, How many years have you been driving?
 
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I think the conditioning comes from many years of dealers, car salesmen, garage owners, and mechanics telling us every 3,000 miles you change oil and rotate tires. I've been driving 37 years so I may have more conditioning than you! I also have always owned sporty to down right racing cars that we just didn't take a chance on not changing the oil regularly. The higher the performance engine the more often I changed the oil just as a precaution. Over the years it just became a habit that I rotated tires and oil change at the same time 3000-3500 miles. Have always kept to this. Now with the synthetics out I feel safer going past that threshold but still need to rotate the tires. Some garages will charge an arm and a leg to just rotate tires by themselves as opposed to charging little to nothing if you are getting an oil change at the same time. So I will stick with what I am doing and be safe rather than sorry. Hey, the mechanics got to eat also!!! LOL!!! I don't want to waste money but while I'm there...

Eric L. 10-29-2007 07:50 PM

I have no doubt that as long as the oil level is correct, the MO (or indeed most modern engines) can go 7500 miles on conventional oil without any problems. The earlier change interval in my case is due to my own odd sense of "maintenance" - and in most case I change based on time and not miles, since I don't drive that much. For me, ~4000miles = 6 months, so thats the change interval I am most accustomed to. Six months is also a convenient interval for me to give the car a once over, to check for leaks, worn parts....

If you read the long term road tests in the major car rags and even Edmunds' Insideline long term tests, they all go with the minimum maintenance routine - whether it is the 7500 miles interval or via the oil change monitor (usually over 10,000 miles), I've ever read about engine wear or failure using those intervals, but then they do keep their cars for a short period (in some cases a year, in others a couple years, but generally less than 30,000 miles). In a recent issue of of the rags, there was a long term update on a 2007 Escalade in which they went 18,000 miles between oil changes, and that included towing a 7000lb trailer! The editor of the article surmised that the oil life monitor was somehow reset during a warranty repair visit, and hence, the very long interval. They noted no engine problems. although I'm not sure whether the huge V8 in the Escalade took synthetic.

ekaxel 10-29-2007 08:26 PM

I have been driving for 55 years...
I do not deal with car salesmen, service writers, mechanics, and garage owners. I also do not "Jiffy Lube"

nissanlove 10-29-2007 08:32 PM

recently, because of my ownership of a mercedes(which i change the oil every 6000km, i would not dare go one year without an oil change) i have been introduced to mobil 1 0w40 oil. i a couple days ago i changed the oil in the mo, and instead of going with dino 5w30 oil i put in the 0w40 mobil 1. what an increadible difference. the engine runs increadibly quietly now. i have the jwt cone filter and the intake noise has been reduced drastically. at regular acceleration, i can only hear the flowmaster muffler now. i will most likely still change the oil on the mo every 6000km since lately it's been a garage queen and has been subject to A LOT of VERY short trips. trips that don't allow the engine to warm up anywhere near normal opperating temp. anyways, if you can get your hands on some 0w40 oil, i suggest you try it.

Nuf.Evah 10-29-2007 11:21 PM

EKAXEL what a claim!!! LOL!!!
 
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I have been driving for 55 years...
I do not deal with car salesmen, service writers, mechanics, and garage owners. I also do not "Jiffy Lube"

You have always bought your cars direct from the manufacturer and done all your own maintenance...? You need to write a book on your life's experiences as I find this a bit hard to believe. Do you get your cars from the aliens beamed to you from Satnook One? You are around 70 years old and are delusional if you think I'm buying that story! Please explain!

:2:

Gonzo 10-29-2007 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nissanlove
i have been introduced to mobil 1 0w40 oil. i a couple days ago i changed the oil in the mo, and instead of going with dino 5w30 oil i put in the 0w40 mobil 1. what an increadible difference. the engine runs increadibly quietly now.
Seriously... you can hear a difference? I wonder how it would compare to Dino 5W-30 which is what I run in my MO.

Nuf.Evah 10-29-2007 11:31 PM

Can'rt compare ....
 
but I'm going to try it!!!!!!!

enamurao 10-30-2007 04:07 AM

I used to change the mobil1 syn every 7,000 in my MO and when I bought my toyota,dealer and even car manual suggest to change plain oil every 5,000 in all toyotas and dealer even sent you back home if you are not due in the every 5,000 interval if you get the oil change package they sell you,
so now im pushing the synthetic to every 10,000 in my toyota.
every 7500 to 10000 miles syn oil change i think is still safe on nissans as well.

hfelknor 10-30-2007 11:08 AM

Toyotas are different.
They really have a hard time with engines.
They have had sludge problems with both 4 and 6 cylynder engines due to design problems.
Many thousands of Toyota engines have gone bad because of this problem.

So Toyota is a bit defensive about this and SHORTENED the interval, while everybody else was increasing it.

Although I don't have a problem with Mob1 being used for 10K, Toyota might, IF, for some strange reason, your engine did sludge up.
Syn shouldn't sludge of course, but..........

Homer

Eric L. 10-30-2007 11:12 AM

To add to the Toyota sludge story, my understanding of why it happened was because Toyota had inadequately sized water cooling channels behind one of the cylinder banks, and this led to higher than normal oil temperatures, and subsequently sludging. Toyota modified their 3L engines for additional block cooling, so the problem is only an issue for late 90's, early 2000's 3L V6 models. I have not heard of sludging on their 4-cyl engines, yet.

Chrysler had a similar issue with their 2.7L V6 but it was not as well publicized due to the smaller number of engines affected.

ekaxel 10-30-2007 11:19 AM

That sludging probably wouldn't have happened if synthetic oil was used!

hfelknor 10-30-2007 11:42 AM

Here is a list of the Toyota engines affected.
And yes, many 4 cyl were affected.

One thing that was interesting was how Toyota let this go on. THey were in full denial up until 2002.

http://www.yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html

And yes the Chrysler 2.7 had sludge problems.
That is not a Chrysler engine, but a Mitsu engine, and yes it sludged up in the Mitsu's too.
Sludge can, and does, show up in all engines, including the Nissan VQs.
It's just not endemic in most engines.

Homer

Eric L. 10-30-2007 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hfelknor
Here is a list of the Toyota engines affected.
And yes, many 4 cyl were affected.

One thing that was interesting was how Toyota let this go on. THey were in full denial up until 2002.

http://www.yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html

And yes the Chrysler 2.7 had sludge problems.
That is not a Chrysler engine, but a Mitsu engine, and yes it sludged up in the Mitsu's too.
Sludge can, and does, show up in all engines, including the Nissan VQs.
It's just not endemic in most engines.

Homer

I think the 2.7 was a Chrysler design, but both the previous gen Stratus and Sebring (coupes only) door did share a platform with the Mitsubishi Eclipse/Galant, although those used a 3L V6 which did not have sludge issues.

Wiki's entry on oil sludge. Apparently some turbocharged Saab and VW engines were also affected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sludge

njjoe 10-30-2007 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eric L.
I think the 2.7 was a Chrysler design,
E-

You are correct.

Chrysler's 2.6-liter 4-cylinder was a Mitsubishi powerplant, while the 2.7-liter V-6 with the sludge problems were all Chrysler. The 2.7 was developed from the 3.2, which was developed from the 3.5-liter.

The sludge problem was traced back to a faulty crankcase ventilation design that was introducing contaminants into the oil.

-njjoe

Gonzo 10-30-2007 02:35 PM

I can speak first hand... it happened to my wife's RX300... we purchased it used and soon after had blue smoke coming out of the tail. Toyota (unlike Nissan) stepped up to the plate and even though out of warranty replaced many items in the engine (Valve cover, valves, gaskets etc). It has been fine since, 4+ years, 50,000 miles latter. The car now has 100,000 miles and runs very nice.

Lexus sure knows how to treat their customers. Can you image how Nissan would have handled this.... "can not duplicate" or perhaps "this is normal consumption... 1 quart every 200 miles, its a high compression engine." :15:

Kris 10-30-2007 07:17 PM

I have owned many cars....neither of them had sludge problem.....maybe I was lucky....maybe because of maintenance...

The 2.6l Mitsu engine is not a bad one though for today's standards is quite outdated. I had a car with this engine many moons ago. It lasted 100k miles without a glitch! After that - I do not know. Got rid of it...

cschmidt 10-30-2007 10:34 PM

oil analysis
 
I'd suggest spending the $20 to get an oil analysis at least once if you are going for extended oil changes. Worst case is you throw away $20, best case is they tell you how to save your engine.

Chuck

Gonzo 10-30-2007 11:52 PM

I'm going out on a ledge here but IMHO you don't need syn. oil... todays Dino oil is fine for every day use.

My last car, 210,000 miles with dino oil never needed to add any between changes egnine ran perfectly

My parents, 150,000 and still going ONLY following recommended change intervals of 7,500 miles, its an 1990 Acura Integra with dino oil

My 1982 Mazda with 110,000 miles sold but never lose any oil between changes

Is it really necessary to use Synth?

Nuf.Evah 10-31-2007 12:28 AM

No not necessary......
 
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...just proved better. I ran my 240Z to 239 K miles on Dino and then sold it after 12 years and it ran like a top. I think that all would agree that you are more likely to do so on synthetic however!

Kris 10-31-2007 08:16 AM

In my opinion it is not worth spending money on oil analysis. Unless you want to prove something :)

Synthetics are better oils in specific situations – cold starts, heavy load etc. However, as many stated above today’s dinos are very good. Murano and FX are my first cars to run on synthetic! Are they better off? I do not know.

IMHO it is much more important to make sure oil is changed at regular intervals than go synthetic. And make sure you quality dino oil…

BlueSteW8 11-10-2007 10:31 PM

I too have become "conditioned", but not to a set interval.
My car is a VW W8 - it requires synthetic by spec (VW 503.01), and takes 8.5 liters per change.
Yes 8.5 liters of a GroupIV synthetic.
And I will be doing Blackstone OA soon (a little over 5k miles since last change).
Is it a waste?
I don't think so, as a new motor is said to cost $18,000.00 USD - which is more than it would cost to buy another W8 with the same miles!

The last change in the wife's Murano (@60,000 miles) I opted to use Castrol Syntec 5W-30 and the OEM filter.
Next go round I'll give the big Amsoil filter a shot, and try a 0W-40 synthetic as well.
Money spent on synthetic oil isn't wasted. I think it is a better choice in the long run.
I've never heard of something crapping out because it was overmaintained.

Nuf.Evah 11-11-2007 01:42 AM

I over maintain my wife and it's paid off!!!
 
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After 21 years together, 19 married, she had her breasts implanted and them head light is as good as new!!! LOL!!! Sorry I don't think they'd allow pictures guys!!!


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