Mobil1 not fully synthetic? - Nissan Murano

**Kris** · 02-10-2007, 05:18 PM

I have been following Internet discussions concerning recent testing of Mobil1 oil. Apparently a chromatograph analysis reveled that Mobil1 is not fully synthetic oil and contains element of Group III, which are mineral based. Mobil kept quiet for a long time though recently there were emails sent from Mobil admitting that that really is the case. Moreover, the most recent Mobil1 bottles DO NOT HAVE text “Fully synthetic”! It makes me wonder when Mobil did the switch and how does it affect performance of the Mobil1 oil. There are rumors stating that the switch was to maximize profit as the Group III products are cheaper and of course of lesser quality.

There is a relative newcomer on the market – Pennzoil Platinum fully synthetic oil that receives very high marks and won a best oil award last November. Given the unclear situation with Mobil1 I am considering switching to Pennzoil Platinum (PP).

Here are prices from Walmart:

5QT bottle:
M1 - $23.62, PP - $19.97

1QT bottles:
M1 - $5.97, PP - $4.97

I am sure that the PP is not of lesser quality. And the fact that it is fully synthetic assures me of its performance. And the price is right as well. I will also go back to Nissan OEM oil filters and quit using overpriced Mobil1 filter.

Somehow I have this feeling that bean counters and profit maximizers are trying to screw a good product – Mobil1 Super Synch oil……

What do you think guys?

ekaxel · 02-10-2007, 05:46 PM

Amsoil is still the king!!

**Eric L.** · 02-10-2007, 06:38 PM

I've heard for a while now that Mobil One is no longer a full synthetic. Syntec hasn't been a full synthetic for even longer than that. As far as I am concerned, the longevity of an oil is determined by its additive package, whereas its flow characteristics in extreme heat and cold is based on its synthetic vs conventional properties. So if I were to think of "how many miles" I could go without changing the oil, I would consider the overall additive package (like Mobil's supersyn) but if I was constantly starting the car in -30F weather or 120F stop and go traffic, then the "synthetic" element would factor in as well.

BTW, the only difference between Mobil One and Mobil One EP is that EP has "50% more supersyn additive."

**Kris** · 02-10-2007, 08:45 PM

Eric,
I understand what are you trying to say. The question which still remains unanswered is when Mobil1 became not fully synthetic? And how it affected its performance? How does it compare to Pennzoil Platinum, which is fully synthetic? Is Mobil1 worth the premium price we are paying for it?

I just bought 2 five qt bottles of Mobil1 for this weekend change in both FX and Murano. It will give me a time to think about other alternatives....

**Eric L.** · 02-10-2007, 08:52 PM

I see what you are getting at Kris. I've used Penzoil synthetic on the Maxima and it was fine. To be honest, I am pretty certain that as long as you change oil frequently (every 5000 miles), *any* 5w30 oil will keep your engine in great shape, so I doubt the difference in "synthetic-ness" between M1 and PP can even be measured.

GripperDon · 02-10-2007, 09:08 PM

**Kris** · 02-10-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GripperDon

Ok Don, but why?

GripperDon · 02-10-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kris

Ok Don, but why?

Just beacuse of you Kris and second i don't like being mislead.

**njjoe** · 02-11-2007, 12:17 AM

The following is from the Mobil 1 website:

Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?

Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.

Where does the truth lie?

-njjoe

GripperDon · 02-11-2007, 12:59 AM

ekaxel · 02-11-2007, 01:18 AM

Truth: Amsoil is still the king!

Murano_Rat · 02-11-2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by njjoe
The following is from the Mobil 1 website:

Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?

Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.

Where does the truth lie?

-njjoe

Show me some verifiable studies so I can sue Mobil 1 for false advertising. Otherwise it is just anecdotal evidence most likely spread by Pennzoil to boost their own sales.

**Kris** · 02-11-2007, 10:14 AM

ekaxel,

I would not be so sure. Their XL oil, which they call Synthetic does have Group III base oil.....

Murano_Rat,
just do some research. I believe Mobil1 used to be fully synthetic, or PAO based. However, they started using Group III oils as did many of their competitors and still call it fully synthetic. There was a ruling in 1999 that allowed Castrol call their oil synthetic even though it contained Group III oils.

My question is, as I do believe Mobil 1 now contains Group III oils, how does it affect its performance? And remember Mobil only says "full synthetic" which may mean use of Group III oils.

There is a great article on Pao v. Group III worth reading. It does show that Group III has a very good performance rivaling PAO based oils.

Anyway, Mobil is suspiciously quiet. I guess after bashing everybody for years for not fully synthetic oils they joined the club.

Still my question is :"how does it affect performance of the Mobil1"? Is the price justifiable?

I do not want to get to argument why Mobil did it (corporate greed it is), my question is technical. Show me the performance....

ekaxel · 02-11-2007, 12:51 PM

Maybe so. I NEVER considered using the Amsoil XL oil. It was just put out there to compete withe the pretenders. Series 2000 0W30, EAO36 filetr every 10000 or 1 year, whichever comes first...

goldmu · 02-12-2007, 11:22 AM

Interesting article Kris. So then, Mobil 1 should cut the price accordingly to reflect the new mineral base oil they apparently use

02-10-2007, 05:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
Kris Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Lake Lanier Posts: 5,265	Mobil1 not fully synthetic? I have been following Internet discussions concerning recent testing of Mobil1 oil. Apparently a chromatograph analysis reveled that Mobil1 is not fully synthetic oil and contains element of Group III, which are mineral based. Mobil kept quiet for a long time though recently there were emails sent from Mobil admitting that that really is the case. Moreover, the most recent Mobil1 bottles DO NOT HAVE text “Fully synthetic”! It makes me wonder when Mobil did the switch and how does it affect performance of the Mobil1 oil. There are rumors stating that the switch was to maximize profit as the Group III products are cheaper and of course of lesser quality. There is a relative newcomer on the market – Pennzoil Platinum fully synthetic oil that receives very high marks and won a best oil award last November. Given the unclear situation with Mobil1 I am considering switching to Pennzoil Platinum (PP). Here are prices from Walmart: 5QT bottle: M1 - $23.62, PP - $19.97 1QT bottles: M1 - $5.97, PP - $4.97 I am sure that the PP is not of lesser quality. And the fact that it is fully synthetic assures me of its performance. And the price is right as well. I will also go back to Nissan OEM oil filters and quit using overpriced Mobil1 filter. Somehow I have this feeling that bean counters and profit maximizers are trying to screw a good product – Mobil1 Super Synch oil…… What do you think guys? __________________ had: 03 MO SL, Gold, 2WD, Premium, leather, sunroof, Mobil 1, B-Quiet, Garmin Nuvi 250W, Fumoto oil valve, HIR's in fogs 08 CTS 304 HP Direct Injection Engine. Fully loaded with every option except AWD 04 FX35, AWD, Touring loaded, Garmin Nuvi 3590LMT, Fumoto oil valve Dream car: Ferrari Italia ------------------------------------------------ "It's not about how fast you go, it's about how you go fast" - Enzo Ferrari

02-10-2007, 05:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
ekaxel Super Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,171	Amsoil is still the king!! __________________ '03 SL everything but OEM Nav Magellan Roadmate 9055 7" in dash with Bluetooth Valentine One Black grille DrawTite 2" hitch & homemade harness Excalibur 1620 alarm Magnetbra Full spare tire Roof rails with crossbars Aluminum fuel tank shield Optima Red Top battery HID fogs/DRL 3 new door lock assemblies 235/65R17 Dean Wintercat snows Backup camera Parking sensor (IR) system GROM IPOD/USB/AUX audio interface New CVT 1/12 (86K miles - on Nissan) Cooper Touring CS4

02-10-2007, 06:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
Eric L. Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Champaign, IL Posts: 8,370	I've heard for a while now that Mobil One is no longer a full synthetic. Syntec hasn't been a full synthetic for even longer than that. As far as I am concerned, the longevity of an oil is determined by its additive package, whereas its flow characteristics in extreme heat and cold is based on its synthetic vs conventional properties. So if I were to think of "how many miles" I could go without changing the oil, I would consider the overall additive package (like Mobil's supersyn) but if I was constantly starting the car in -30F weather or 120F stop and go traffic, then the "synthetic" element would factor in as well. BTW, the only difference between Mobil One and Mobil One EP is that EP has "50% more supersyn additive." __________________ 2003 Midnight Blue SE AWD w/VDC Colgan Bra, Mobil One, JWT POP charger PAC aux input adapter, hardwired Escort Passport x50, KUDA mount for MP3 player, Porterfield R4S brake pads (now Akebono ProACT), ATE Superblue Yokohama Envigor (much improved over stock Goodyears) Lots of squeaks and rattles.

02-10-2007, 08:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
Kris Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Lake Lanier Posts: 5,265	Eric, I understand what are you trying to say. The question which still remains unanswered is when Mobil1 became not fully synthetic? And how it affected its performance? How does it compare to Pennzoil Platinum, which is fully synthetic? Is Mobil1 worth the premium price we are paying for it? I just bought 2 five qt bottles of Mobil1 for this weekend change in both FX and Murano. It will give me a time to think about other alternatives.... __________________ had: 03 MO SL, Gold, 2WD, Premium, leather, sunroof, Mobil 1, B-Quiet, Garmin Nuvi 250W, Fumoto oil valve, HIR's in fogs 08 CTS 304 HP Direct Injection Engine. Fully loaded with every option except AWD 04 FX35, AWD, Touring loaded, Garmin Nuvi 3590LMT, Fumoto oil valve Dream car: Ferrari Italia ------------------------------------------------ "It's not about how fast you go, it's about how you go fast" - Enzo Ferrari

02-10-2007, 08:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
Eric L. Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Champaign, IL Posts: 8,370	I see what you are getting at Kris. I've used Penzoil synthetic on the Maxima and it was fine. To be honest, I am pretty certain that as long as you change oil frequently (every 5000 miles), any 5w30 oil will keep your engine in great shape, so I doubt the difference in "synthetic-ness" between M1 and PP can even be measured. __________________ 2003 Midnight Blue SE AWD w/VDC Colgan Bra, Mobil One, JWT POP charger PAC aux input adapter, hardwired Escort Passport x50, KUDA mount for MP3 player, Porterfield R4S brake pads (now Akebono ProACT), ATE Superblue Yokohama Envigor (much improved over stock Goodyears) Lots of squeaks and rattles.

02-10-2007, 09:08 PM	#6 (permalink)
GripperDon Mr. 3 K, 3/3/5. 5K,10/5/7 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: PB5-926 Posts: 5,100	I am convinced it's PP for Me ! __________________ Previous Owner of, The Mod Mo, 05, SL, FWD, Platinum, Charcoal Leather, Touring, Technology Pkgs., TPMS etc. Chrome Wheels, Roof Rack Bbars. Cargo Protector. Extended Warranty, X-Tire, AutoMate. Leatherique treated leather. Diamond Window Tint, Tires 3 step balanced. Stainless Steel Laser Cut Grill. Glass VIN etch, Debadged. Silver Painted Calipers. 1300F Ceramic painted Muffler. B-Quite Supreme, sound matting. External Sound ndercoated. White Led Parking Lights. Led Front Door Entrance Lights. Yellow Ion Fogs. Silver-Amber Front Turn Signals. Hella 100 Watt @ 5000K Driving Lights. SAT receiver–Delphi XM Roady2 Hidden Antenna install. Fan cooled Inverter AC to Xbox. MTX 200 watt auto on Amp deciated power to Bose Sub Woofer. PAC-Niss dual aux in for Sat and X Box audio. Generator Labs NoNag modded Rear Camera. “NAV Box" W/Modded X Box X2 Chip. DVD’s, MP3 & JPEG pics ,160 gig HD / Wireless Lynksis 802.11G Ethernet link. Runs Xbox Media Center. rear Bumper Protector. Selectable Horns: OEM MO/WoLo air. Tinted Tails-Bright bulbs. Tweeters tilted + 19uf mod. Lower Grill Stone Shield. Front Floor Amber Courtesy Lights. Chrome over Stainless Rocker Bars. Wireless LED Turn Signal Mirrors. Top mounted Led Stop Light modded with The backoff.

02-11-2007, 12:17 AM	#9 (permalink)
njjoe Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Jersey Shore (not THAT Jersey Shore, the real one) Posts: 12,468	The following is from the Mobil 1 website: Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil? Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application. Where does the truth lie? -njjoe __________________ 2005 SL AWD, Platinum -OEM HID conversion & HID fogs -OEM iPod interface -Upgraded (non-Bose) speakers - Pioneer TS-A1702C & TS-G1643R -Muth signal mirrors -Valley Industries hitch and wiring harness -Aluminum fuel tank shields

02-11-2007, 12:59 AM	#10 (permalink)
GripperDon Mr. 3 K, 3/3/5. 5K,10/5/7 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: PB5-926 Posts: 5,100	Is lie the operative word __________________ Previous Owner of, The Mod Mo, 05, SL, FWD, Platinum, Charcoal Leather, Touring, Technology Pkgs., TPMS etc. Chrome Wheels, Roof Rack Bbars. Cargo Protector. Extended Warranty, X-Tire, AutoMate. Leatherique treated leather. Diamond Window Tint, Tires 3 step balanced. Stainless Steel Laser Cut Grill. Glass VIN etch, Debadged. Silver Painted Calipers. 1300F Ceramic painted Muffler. B-Quite Supreme, sound matting. External Sound ndercoated. White Led Parking Lights. Led Front Door Entrance Lights. Yellow Ion Fogs. Silver-Amber Front Turn Signals. Hella 100 Watt @ 5000K Driving Lights. SAT receiver–Delphi XM Roady2 Hidden Antenna install. Fan cooled Inverter AC to Xbox. MTX 200 watt auto on Amp deciated power to Bose Sub Woofer. PAC-Niss dual aux in for Sat and X Box audio. Generator Labs NoNag modded Rear Camera. “NAV Box" W/Modded X Box X2 Chip. DVD’s, MP3 & JPEG pics ,160 gig HD / Wireless Lynksis 802.11G Ethernet link. Runs Xbox Media Center. rear Bumper Protector. Selectable Horns: OEM MO/WoLo air. Tinted Tails-Bright bulbs. Tweeters tilted + 19uf mod. Lower Grill Stone Shield. Front Floor Amber Courtesy Lights. Chrome over Stainless Rocker Bars. Wireless LED Turn Signal Mirrors. Top mounted Led Stop Light modded with The backoff.

02-11-2007, 01:18 AM	#11 (permalink)
ekaxel Super Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,171	Truth: Amsoil is still the king! __________________ '03 SL everything but OEM Nav Magellan Roadmate 9055 7" in dash with Bluetooth Valentine One Black grille DrawTite 2" hitch & homemade harness Excalibur 1620 alarm Magnetbra Full spare tire Roof rails with crossbars Aluminum fuel tank shield Optima Red Top battery HID fogs/DRL 3 new door lock assemblies 235/65R17 Dean Wintercat snows Backup camera Parking sensor (IR) system GROM IPOD/USB/AUX audio interface New CVT 1/12 (86K miles - on Nissan) Cooper Touring CS4

02-11-2007, 10:14 AM	#13 (permalink)
Kris Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Lake Lanier Posts: 5,265	ekaxel, I would not be so sure. Their XL oil, which they call Synthetic does have Group III base oil..... Murano_Rat, just do some research. I believe Mobil1 used to be fully synthetic, or PAO based. However, they started using Group III oils as did many of their competitors and still call it fully synthetic. There was a ruling in 1999 that allowed Castrol call their oil synthetic even though it contained Group III oils. My question is, as I do believe Mobil 1 now contains Group III oils, how does it affect its performance? And remember Mobil only says "full synthetic" which may mean use of Group III oils. There is a great article on Pao v. Group III worth reading. It does show that Group III has a very good performance rivaling PAO based oils. Anyway, Mobil is suspiciously quiet. I guess after bashing everybody for years for not fully synthetic oils they joined the club. Still my question is :"how does it affect performance of the Mobil1"? Is the price justifiable? I do not want to get to argument why Mobil did it (corporate greed it is), my question is technical. Show me the performance.... __________________ had: 03 MO SL, Gold, 2WD, Premium, leather, sunroof, Mobil 1, B-Quiet, Garmin Nuvi 250W, Fumoto oil valve, HIR's in fogs 08 CTS 304 HP Direct Injection Engine. Fully loaded with every option except AWD 04 FX35, AWD, Touring loaded, Garmin Nuvi 3590LMT, Fumoto oil valve Dream car: Ferrari Italia ------------------------------------------------ "It's not about how fast you go, it's about how you go fast" - Enzo Ferrari

02-11-2007, 12:51 PM	#14 (permalink)
ekaxel Super Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,171	Maybe so. I NEVER considered using the Amsoil XL oil. It was just put out there to compete withe the pretenders. Series 2000 0W30, EAO36 filetr every 10000 or 1 year, whichever comes first... __________________ '03 SL everything but OEM Nav Magellan Roadmate 9055 7" in dash with Bluetooth Valentine One Black grille DrawTite 2" hitch & homemade harness Excalibur 1620 alarm Magnetbra Full spare tire Roof rails with crossbars Aluminum fuel tank shield Optima Red Top battery HID fogs/DRL 3 new door lock assemblies 235/65R17 Dean Wintercat snows Backup camera Parking sensor (IR) system GROM IPOD/USB/AUX audio interface New CVT 1/12 (86K miles - on Nissan) Cooper Touring CS4

02-12-2007, 11:22 AM	#15 (permalink)
goldmu Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, ON Canada Posts: 42	Interesting article Kris. So then, Mobil 1 should cut the price accordingly to reflect the new mineral base oil they apparently use __________________ 2003 SL Gold

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