another myth??? - Nissan Murano

**Kris** · 01-22-2005, 04:28 PM

While at tire shop this morning I saw this ad. Just couldnâ€™t resist taking picture of it (sorry for the quality, though it was just phone camera)â€¦

Tire experts â€“ is there a merit in these claims?

Ohio Murano · 01-22-2005, 04:36 PM

I would think the pressure may not fluctuate as much during tempature changes but as far as the other claims, who knows. Also what happens if you have a flat tire and put regualr air back into it? Is that corner going to ride rougher? Interesting questions!!!

GripperDon · 01-22-2005, 05:39 PM

YUP at least 20% better than Air.

Don't you love all those non specific terms, improved, increased, better, reduced, not a single specific or % in the bunch.

Personally, I use ARGON! and that we can quanity as being inert so not oxidation of the rubber at all and the molecular size difference makes the leakage 12 times less. ( I get free Argon so the cost is 0% higher.)

SugarRushMurano · 01-22-2005, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ohio Murano
I would think the pressure may not fluctuate as much during tempature changes but as far as the other claims, who knows. Also what happens if you have a flat tire and put regualr air back into it? Is that corner going to ride rougher? Interesting questions!!!

That barner claims that Nitrogen will help the tire life yada yada. That needs to be proven hehehe...

Using the periodic table as reference:
http://education.yahoo.com/reference...entry?id=36717
When you pump in regular air, the Nitrogen will bind with oxygen in regular air. Remember, breathable air contains Nitrogen and Oxygen. Hence it turns back to regular air, a bit Nitrogen - rich ...

GripperDon · 01-22-2005, 06:14 PM

Forgot to mention, I do the Argon with fill, empty , fill to flush out as much Air as possible.

**jaak** · 01-22-2005, 06:19 PM

That dealer scares me.

GripperDon · 01-22-2005, 07:44 PM

I have never noticed any differenc in Ride Quality. I do it for:
1. Fun
2. Argon has lower thermal conductivity.
3. Larger Molecule for less leakage
4. Trully inert for longer life on the rubber (now we all have rotting rubber don't we)
5. Might make the TPMS senders last longer.

So as you can see #1 is #1

**Kris** · 01-22-2005, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaak
That dealer scares me.

Me too. So far they have been very good. Did the balancing twice and were very understanding. Today, the service advisor even said that they had lots of problems with Yokohamas. However, on the receipt they stated: "tires requested by customer. Not recommended for Murano. Tires balance within specifications". This is the first time they said it.

I think they realized that there is a real problem with the tires and are trying to bail out. I will be back at the dealer Monday most likely. The prospect of driving these tires for another 18 months annoys me to say the leastâ€¦â€¦

Tire experts: besides tire balance what else can cause vibrations?

PS. I may suggest that if they use Nitrogen, or better Argon problem may disappearâ€¦â€¦.

GripperDon · 01-22-2005, 10:21 PM

You can say it.

PS what dealer are you all talking about, or does my computer switch threads?

**Eric L.** · 01-22-2005, 10:25 PM

The nitrogen idea comes from the racing scene where nitrogen may be used since it does not expand/contract as much as normal air (which is mostly nitrogen anyways) due to temperature difference. Will it make a difference in a race car driving 150mph on the track? Maybe. Will it make a difference in a Murano? Not likely.

GripperDon · 01-23-2005, 12:43 AM

I get lost with that reasoning.

The universal gas law is (Thanks to Boyle) PV=MRT

Assume same initial tire pressure and tire volume.

The delta pressure assuming the same delta temperature

P= MRT/V scratch V's as equal and T's as same delta

Then the Delta P= is proportional to MR

M= 32 Nitrogen and 28 for Oxygen

R fo Nitrogen is 286 and R for Oxygen is 359

The MR product is 8288 in both cases. Therefore the Delta Pressure is the same.

Maybe Race drivers may need more study and less Gas (intestinal type)

**Kris** · 01-23-2005, 12:46 AM

Don,

I am not surprised you got lost. You went the logical way. The explanation is simple:

1. marketing b...s
2. bottom line (profit)
3. c.....s ignorance

**jaak** · 01-23-2005, 08:19 AM

It's the old "If you'll buy it, I'll sell it to you!" problem.

Yes, I meant dealer, as in tire dealer (or tyre dealer for the brits snooping and thinking about getting a Murano. Stop snooping, go order one and get on here!)

It reminds me of an old english fair I attended in CA. (Excuse for a bunch of hippies to get together and have fun...)

There was this guy walking around yelling "Nothing for Sale! I have Nothing for sale. If you give me something, I will give you Nothing! Nothing for sale! You can get Nothing for Something!"

I think he moved into the tire business.

mgthe3 · 01-23-2005, 08:52 AM

U guys are funny!

but seriously....why haven't they come out with a very thick (say, 2") tube made out of air bubble impregnated, super low durometer, RTV silicone? It would make your tires essentially flat proof and very quiet. Or maybe just put that coating inside the tire.
Or is this just another Marty dream....

saito · 01-23-2005, 11:00 AM

Why not just dispense with air/nitrogen/argon altogether and put a set of Michelin Tweels on your MO?

01-22-2005, 04:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
Kris Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Lake Lanier Posts: 5,246	another myth??? While at tire shop this morning I saw this ad. Just couldnâ€™t resist taking picture of it (sorry for the quality, though it was just phone camera)â€¦ Tire experts â€“ is there a merit in these claims? Attached Thumbnails __________________ had: 03 MO SL, Gold, 2WD, Premium, leather, sunroof, Mobil 1, B-Quiet, Garmin Nuvi 250W, Fumoto oil valve, HIR's in fogs 08 CTS 304 HP Direct Injection Engine. Fully loaded with every option except AWD 04 FX35, AWD, Touring loaded, Garmin Nuvi 250W, Fumoto oil valve Dream car: Ferrari Italia ------------------------------------------------ "It's not about how fast you go, it's about how you go fast" - Enzo Ferrari

01-22-2005, 04:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ohio Murano Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, Ohio Posts: 242	I would think the pressure may not fluctuate as much during tempature changes but as far as the other claims, who knows. Also what happens if you have a flat tire and put regualr air back into it? Is that corner going to ride rougher? Interesting questions!!! __________________ 2005 Nissan Murano SL AWD Midnight Blue / Cafe Latte Leather SL Touring Package Dynamic Control Package Chrome Wheel Package

01-22-2005, 05:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
GripperDon Mr. 3 K, 3/3/5. 5K,10/5/7 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: PB5-926 Posts: 5,077	YUP at least 20% better than Air. Don't you love all those non specific terms, improved, increased, better, reduced, not a single specific or % in the bunch. Personally, I use ARGON! and that we can quanity as being inert so not oxidation of the rubber at all and the molecular size difference makes the leakage 12 times less. ( I get free Argon so the cost is 0% higher.) __________________ Previous Owner of, The Mod Mo, 05, SL, FWD, Platinum, Charcoal Leather, Touring, Technology Pkgs., TPMS etc. Chrome Wheels, Roof Rack Bbars. Cargo Protector. Extended Warranty, X-Tire, AutoMate. Leatherique treated leather. Diamond Window Tint, Tires 3 step balanced. Stainless Steel Laser Cut Grill. Glass VIN etch, Debadged. Silver Painted Calipers. 1300F Ceramic painted Muffler. B-Quite Supreme, sound matting. External Sound ndercoated. White Led Parking Lights. Led Front Door Entrance Lights. Yellow Ion Fogs. Silver-Amber Front Turn Signals. Hella 100 Watt @ 5000K Driving Lights. SAT receiver–Delphi XM Roady2 Hidden Antenna install. Fan cooled Inverter AC to Xbox. MTX 200 watt auto on Amp deciated power to Bose Sub Woofer. PAC-Niss dual aux in for Sat and X Box audio. Generator Labs NoNag modded Rear Camera. “NAV Box" W/Modded X Box X2 Chip. DVD’s, MP3 & JPEG pics ,160 gig HD / Wireless Lynksis 802.11G Ethernet link. Runs Xbox Media Center. rear Bumper Protector. Selectable Horns: OEM MO/WoLo air. Tinted Tails-Bright bulbs. Tweeters tilted + 19uf mod. Lower Grill Stone Shield. Front Floor Amber Courtesy Lights. Chrome over Stainless Rocker Bars. Wireless LED Turn Signal Mirrors. Top mounted Led Stop Light modded with The backoff.

01-22-2005, 06:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
GripperDon Mr. 3 K, 3/3/5. 5K,10/5/7 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: PB5-926 Posts: 5,077	Forgot to mention, I do the Argon with fill, empty , fill to flush out as much Air as possible. __________________ Previous Owner of, The Mod Mo, 05, SL, FWD, Platinum, Charcoal Leather, Touring, Technology Pkgs., TPMS etc. Chrome Wheels, Roof Rack Bbars. Cargo Protector. Extended Warranty, X-Tire, AutoMate. Leatherique treated leather. Diamond Window Tint, Tires 3 step balanced. Stainless Steel Laser Cut Grill. Glass VIN etch, Debadged. Silver Painted Calipers. 1300F Ceramic painted Muffler. B-Quite Supreme, sound matting. External Sound ndercoated. White Led Parking Lights. Led Front Door Entrance Lights. Yellow Ion Fogs. Silver-Amber Front Turn Signals. Hella 100 Watt @ 5000K Driving Lights. SAT receiver–Delphi XM Roady2 Hidden Antenna install. Fan cooled Inverter AC to Xbox. MTX 200 watt auto on Amp deciated power to Bose Sub Woofer. PAC-Niss dual aux in for Sat and X Box audio. Generator Labs NoNag modded Rear Camera. “NAV Box" W/Modded X Box X2 Chip. DVD’s, MP3 & JPEG pics ,160 gig HD / Wireless Lynksis 802.11G Ethernet link. Runs Xbox Media Center. rear Bumper Protector. Selectable Horns: OEM MO/WoLo air. Tinted Tails-Bright bulbs. Tweeters tilted + 19uf mod. Lower Grill Stone Shield. Front Floor Amber Courtesy Lights. Chrome over Stainless Rocker Bars. Wireless LED Turn Signal Mirrors. Top mounted Led Stop Light modded with The backoff.

01-22-2005, 06:19 PM	#6 (permalink)
jaak Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Toronto, Eh! Posts: 4,662	That dealer scares me. __________________ The Nissan Murano... Love at first drive! But this is what I drive these days... Does a 12 second 1/4 mile @117 mph.

01-22-2005, 07:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
GripperDon Mr. 3 K, 3/3/5. 5K,10/5/7 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: PB5-926 Posts: 5,077	I have never noticed any differenc in Ride Quality. I do it for: 1. Fun 2. Argon has lower thermal conductivity. 3. Larger Molecule for less leakage 4. Trully inert for longer life on the rubber (now we all have rotting rubber don't we) 5. Might make the TPMS senders last longer. So as you can see #1 is #1 __________________ Previous Owner of, The Mod Mo, 05, SL, FWD, Platinum, Charcoal Leather, Touring, Technology Pkgs., TPMS etc. Chrome Wheels, Roof Rack Bbars. Cargo Protector. Extended Warranty, X-Tire, AutoMate. Leatherique treated leather. Diamond Window Tint, Tires 3 step balanced. Stainless Steel Laser Cut Grill. Glass VIN etch, Debadged. Silver Painted Calipers. 1300F Ceramic painted Muffler. B-Quite Supreme, sound matting. External Sound ndercoated. White Led Parking Lights. Led Front Door Entrance Lights. Yellow Ion Fogs. Silver-Amber Front Turn Signals. Hella 100 Watt @ 5000K Driving Lights. SAT receiver–Delphi XM Roady2 Hidden Antenna install. Fan cooled Inverter AC to Xbox. MTX 200 watt auto on Amp deciated power to Bose Sub Woofer. PAC-Niss dual aux in for Sat and X Box audio. Generator Labs NoNag modded Rear Camera. “NAV Box" W/Modded X Box X2 Chip. DVD’s, MP3 & JPEG pics ,160 gig HD / Wireless Lynksis 802.11G Ethernet link. Runs Xbox Media Center. rear Bumper Protector. Selectable Horns: OEM MO/WoLo air. Tinted Tails-Bright bulbs. Tweeters tilted + 19uf mod. Lower Grill Stone Shield. Front Floor Amber Courtesy Lights. Chrome over Stainless Rocker Bars. Wireless LED Turn Signal Mirrors. Top mounted Led Stop Light modded with The backoff.

01-22-2005, 10:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
GripperDon Mr. 3 K, 3/3/5. 5K,10/5/7 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: PB5-926 Posts: 5,077	You can say it. PS what dealer are you all talking about, or does my computer switch threads? __________________ Previous Owner of, The Mod Mo, 05, SL, FWD, Platinum, Charcoal Leather, Touring, Technology Pkgs., TPMS etc. Chrome Wheels, Roof Rack Bbars. Cargo Protector. Extended Warranty, X-Tire, AutoMate. Leatherique treated leather. Diamond Window Tint, Tires 3 step balanced. Stainless Steel Laser Cut Grill. Glass VIN etch, Debadged. Silver Painted Calipers. 1300F Ceramic painted Muffler. B-Quite Supreme, sound matting. External Sound ndercoated. White Led Parking Lights. Led Front Door Entrance Lights. Yellow Ion Fogs. Silver-Amber Front Turn Signals. Hella 100 Watt @ 5000K Driving Lights. SAT receiver–Delphi XM Roady2 Hidden Antenna install. Fan cooled Inverter AC to Xbox. MTX 200 watt auto on Amp deciated power to Bose Sub Woofer. PAC-Niss dual aux in for Sat and X Box audio. Generator Labs NoNag modded Rear Camera. “NAV Box" W/Modded X Box X2 Chip. DVD’s, MP3 & JPEG pics ,160 gig HD / Wireless Lynksis 802.11G Ethernet link. Runs Xbox Media Center. rear Bumper Protector. Selectable Horns: OEM MO/WoLo air. Tinted Tails-Bright bulbs. Tweeters tilted + 19uf mod. Lower Grill Stone Shield. Front Floor Amber Courtesy Lights. Chrome over Stainless Rocker Bars. Wireless LED Turn Signal Mirrors. Top mounted Led Stop Light modded with The backoff.

01-22-2005, 10:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
Eric L. Moderator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Champaign, IL Posts: 8,199	The nitrogen idea comes from the racing scene where nitrogen may be used since it does not expand/contract as much as normal air (which is mostly nitrogen anyways) due to temperature difference. Will it make a difference in a race car driving 150mph on the track? Maybe. Will it make a difference in a Murano? Not likely. __________________ 2003 Midnight Blue SE AWD w/VDC Colgan Bra, Mobil One, JWT POP charger PAC aux input adapter, hardwired Escort Passport x50, KUDA mount for MP3 player, Porterfield R4S brake pads (now Akebono ProACT), ATE Superblue Yokohama Envigor (much improved over stock Goodyears) Lots of squeaks and rattles.

01-23-2005, 12:43 AM	#11 (permalink)
GripperDon Mr. 3 K, 3/3/5. 5K,10/5/7 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: PB5-926 Posts: 5,077	I get lost with that reasoning. The universal gas law is (Thanks to Boyle) PV=MRT Assume same initial tire pressure and tire volume. The delta pressure assuming the same delta temperature P= MRT/V scratch V's as equal and T's as same delta Then the Delta P= is proportional to MR M= 32 Nitrogen and 28 for Oxygen R fo Nitrogen is 286 and R for Oxygen is 359 The MR product is 8288 in both cases. Therefore the Delta Pressure is the same. Maybe Race drivers may need more study and less Gas (intestinal type) __________________ Previous Owner of, The Mod Mo, 05, SL, FWD, Platinum, Charcoal Leather, Touring, Technology Pkgs., TPMS etc. Chrome Wheels, Roof Rack Bbars. Cargo Protector. Extended Warranty, X-Tire, AutoMate. Leatherique treated leather. Diamond Window Tint, Tires 3 step balanced. Stainless Steel Laser Cut Grill. Glass VIN etch, Debadged. Silver Painted Calipers. 1300F Ceramic painted Muffler. B-Quite Supreme, sound matting. External Sound ndercoated. White Led Parking Lights. Led Front Door Entrance Lights. Yellow Ion Fogs. Silver-Amber Front Turn Signals. Hella 100 Watt @ 5000K Driving Lights. SAT receiver–Delphi XM Roady2 Hidden Antenna install. Fan cooled Inverter AC to Xbox. MTX 200 watt auto on Amp deciated power to Bose Sub Woofer. PAC-Niss dual aux in for Sat and X Box audio. Generator Labs NoNag modded Rear Camera. “NAV Box" W/Modded X Box X2 Chip. DVD’s, MP3 & JPEG pics ,160 gig HD / Wireless Lynksis 802.11G Ethernet link. Runs Xbox Media Center. rear Bumper Protector. Selectable Horns: OEM MO/WoLo air. Tinted Tails-Bright bulbs. Tweeters tilted + 19uf mod. Lower Grill Stone Shield. Front Floor Amber Courtesy Lights. Chrome over Stainless Rocker Bars. Wireless LED Turn Signal Mirrors. Top mounted Led Stop Light modded with The backoff.

01-23-2005, 12:46 AM	#12 (permalink)
Kris Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Lake Lanier Posts: 5,246	Don, I am not surprised you got lost. You went the logical way. The explanation is simple: 1. marketing b...s 2. bottom line (profit) 3. c.....s ignorance __________________ had: 03 MO SL, Gold, 2WD, Premium, leather, sunroof, Mobil 1, B-Quiet, Garmin Nuvi 250W, Fumoto oil valve, HIR's in fogs 08 CTS 304 HP Direct Injection Engine. Fully loaded with every option except AWD 04 FX35, AWD, Touring loaded, Garmin Nuvi 250W, Fumoto oil valve Dream car: Ferrari Italia ------------------------------------------------ "It's not about how fast you go, it's about how you go fast" - Enzo Ferrari

01-23-2005, 08:19 AM	#13 (permalink)
jaak Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Toronto, Eh! Posts: 4,662	It's the old "If you'll buy it, I'll sell it to you!" problem. Yes, I meant dealer, as in tire dealer (or tyre dealer for the brits snooping and thinking about getting a Murano. Stop snooping, go order one and get on here!) It reminds me of an old english fair I attended in CA. (Excuse for a bunch of hippies to get together and have fun...) There was this guy walking around yelling "Nothing for Sale! I have Nothing for sale. If you give me something, I will give you Nothing! Nothing for sale! You can get Nothing for Something!" I think he moved into the tire business. __________________ The Nissan Murano... Love at first drive! But this is what I drive these days... Does a 12 second 1/4 mile @117 mph.

01-23-2005, 08:52 AM	#14 (permalink)
mgthe3 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,065	LOL U guys are funny! but seriously....why haven't they come out with a very thick (say, 2") tube made out of air bubble impregnated, super low durometer, RTV silicone? It would make your tires essentially flat proof and very quiet. Or maybe just put that coating inside the tire. Or is this just another Marty dream.... __________________ 2010 Titan Crewcab XE had an 07 S Brilliant Silver had an 04 SL Sheer Silver

01-23-2005, 11:00 AM	#15 (permalink)
saito Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Glastonbury, CT Posts: 53	Why not just dispense with air/nitrogen/argon altogether and put a set of Michelin Tweels on your MO? Attached Thumbnails __________________ '05 Platinum/Charcoal Touring - Technology - Chrome 4G 20GB iPod w/IceLink Aux and ProClip "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants.

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