04 murano with 88k oil consumption - Page 4 - Nissan Murano Forum
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#46 Old 07-27-2012, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueHorse View Post
But I lost 50%+ of engine oil I put in (Murano takes about 5 quarts in oil change), shouldn't the oil level be low enough to trigger the engine oil light? In my opinion, this light should have turned on before low oil caused low pressure which led to SES light.
I would hope that the low oil pressure light would not be triggered by a loss of just 2-1/2 quarts of oil. I want to know that my oil pump intake is located in such a spot where it will scavenge the last possible quantity of oil before sucking in air.

You can not blame the oil light for this one.

What were the codes?

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#47 Old 07-27-2012, 01:15 PM
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I think once you get the oil light its already too late and your engine is toast.
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#48 Old 07-27-2012, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by njjoe View Post
I would hope that the low oil pressure light would not be triggered by a loss of just 2-1/2 quarts of oil. I want to know that my oil pump intake is located in such a spot where it will scavenge the last possible quantity of oil before sucking in air.

You can not blame the oil light for this one.

What were the codes?

-njjoe

If you only have 2.5 quarts in the pan with the engine off I'm guessing you probably only have 1.5-2 when running vs a normal 4-4.5 quarts. 1.5-2 quarts may be fine when not moving, but when the oil sloshes around durning driving air can easily be picked up.

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#49 Old 07-27-2012, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueHorse View Post
But I lost 50%+ of engine oil I put in (Murano takes about 5 quarts in oil change), shouldn't the oil level be low enough to trigger the engine oil light? In my opinion, this light should have turned on before low oil caused low pressure which led to SES light.
NO. This is not how it is designed to work. As has been explained to you more than once.... The oil light monitors the oil PRESSURE, not the oil LEVEL.

Here's an explanation:

If the oil level drops low enough that the oil pump starts sucking air, that will reduce the pressure - but it's also catastrophic for the engine! Air in the oil destroys the integrity of the oil film which must be present between moving parts, and when that film fails, it causes metal to metal contact in the engine. When you neglect your oil level and let it fall low enough that air is sucked into the oil system, you can damage your engine within a matter of minutes.

This doesn't always happen that quickly, but it CAN happen. For this reason, you never, ever, ever want this to happen. If your oil pressure light comes on you turn the engine off immediately - and park the car. No driving home, no continued use, you PARK IT. This happened to me once and I walked home in a snowstorm rather than drive 1/2 mile home. (In that case, the problem was a bad oil pressure sending unit and it only took me a few minutes the next day to change it and have the car running again.)

Depending on the oil warning light to tell you your oil is low will quickly lead to an absolutely destroyed engine. If the engine is damaged, it is due to operator error.

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#50 Old 07-28-2012, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Pilgrim View Post
NO. This is not how it is designed to work. As has been explained to you more than once.... The oil light monitors the oil PRESSURE, not the oil LEVEL.

Here's an explanation:

If the oil level drops low enough that the oil pump starts sucking air, that will reduce the pressure - but it's also catastrophic for the engine! Air in the oil destroys the integrity of the oil film which must be present between moving parts, and when that film fails, it causes metal to metal contact in the engine. When you neglect your oil level and let it fall low enough that air is sucked into the oil system, you can damage your engine within a matter of minutes.

This doesn't always happen that quickly, but it CAN happen. For this reason, you never, ever, ever want this to happen. If your oil pressure light comes on you turn the engine off immediately - and park the car. No driving home, no continued use, you PARK IT. This happened to me once and I walked home in a snowstorm rather than drive 1/2 mile home. (In that case, the problem was a bad oil pressure sending unit and it only took me a few minutes the next day to change it and have the car running again.)

Depending on the oil warning light to tell you your oil is low will quickly lead to an absolutely destroyed engine. If the engine is damaged, it is due to operator error.
Good explaination. Learnt something important today.

To answer some questions asked by a few, I bought the car new and had a gold service contract till 75,000 miles. Then did oil change myself, starting at 4,000 intervals, and only stretched to 6,500 miles in this very last oil change.

The error codes are:
P0011 B1 A-Cam Position Timing Sys. Perform
P1724 Electronic Throttle Control System

The mechanic says low oil level leads to low oil pressure, which messed up timing, in turn cased the two error codes. They changed oil and reset the SES, and everything looks OK 200 miles after.

Given the engine oil light was never on, and I fixed the SES light within 2 days with an oil change, I hope I have not done much harm to the engine....

Here is the post I opened. Welcome comments.

Service Engine Soon light on and pulled error codes
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#51 Old 07-28-2012, 01:24 AM
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Hope I wasn't too harsh, but I really wanted to make the point - since it's critical to preventing engine damage.

I thought you said the oil pressure light had come on - perhaps I was mistaken.

I had difficulty seeing how either of your codes relates to an oil pressure issue, but if they went away after the oil change, hooray! (EDIT: Just found your overlapping post in another thread and Izzy explained this...so that question is answered.) That may be a good sign. But I suggest that you need to drive the car for a while and check the oil level every couple of fill-ups. It would also be a good idea to check for oil leaks every now and then.

Yes, low oil can lead to low oil pressure. Unfortunately it can do so in the same way that excessively low altitude in an airplane can lead to wing damage - because you crashed into the ground. As I explained earlier, if you let the oil get low enough to compromise oil pressure, it is not trivial. There's just no way to know if damage resulted - and how much - until after the event. Maybe no damage, maybe some. That's also a good reason to use synthetic oil, since it has a more tenacious film on metal parts and provides extra protection in case of a loss of oil pressure. It sure didn't hurt that you were using synthetic oil! I hope that there is no damage and there is some benign reason the oil level was low.

Another note - the oil is also a critical component of your cooling system - it carries and dissipates a lot of heat. That's a reason that the oil pan has fins, as that feature provides more heat dissipation from the oil. Therefore, when the oil is low, your engine also tends to run hotter and the cooling system efficiency is compromised.

I've gone much farther than 6500 miles on an oil change myself while running synthetic oil (which is all I have used since 1977). I just made sure to check the oil on a regular basis while doing so.

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#52 Old 07-28-2012, 01:53 AM
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Some damage occurred for sure, but how much? Who knows, it could be significant or it could be be next to nothing. I'd monitor the oil closely the next 5k miles or more and see what happens.

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#53 Old 07-28-2012, 11:29 AM
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Another note - the oil is also a critical component of your cooling system - it carries and dissipates a lot of heat. That's a reason that the oil pan has fins, as that feature provides more heat dissipation from the oil. Therefore, when the oil is low, your engine also tends to run hotter and the cooling system efficiency is compromised.
Excellent point on the oil being used as a coolant.

However, the oil pan on the MO does not have fins. There are no fins on either the exterior or interior surfaces. (I know that for a fact because I replaced my pan this year.) I beleive you may be referring to the CVT's oil sump. That does have fins cast into the bottom structure.

Here's the (old) oil pan:





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#54 Old 07-28-2012, 12:33 PM
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You're right...I had the CVT pan image in my head. Point made, however.

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#55 Old 07-30-2012, 10:39 AM
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No fins, but yes, it does have an oil cooler.

My feeling on the oil light is simple, in this day in age, there is no reason why a "dummy light" can't come on if 1) the oil pressure is low or 2) the oil level is low - thus the term dummy light.

Yes - we must maintain our cars and yes we must check the oil, but seriously. Something that is so vital to the engine should have, for lack of a better word, a dummy light to prevent catastrophic failure. I feel all cars should also have an oil pressure gauge.

I feel the issue is, car manufacturers are not looking to keep cars running forever, they are looking to sell cars.

just my 2 cents

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#56 Old 07-30-2012, 11:00 AM
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biggun-

Excellent point!

Years ago I drove (a friend's) Jag and it had an oil level gauge. When you turned the ignition on, before you hit the starter, the gauge would register the level. I thought that was an excellent idea. Oil is the life blood of any engine; it deserves more than just an idiot light.

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#57 Old 07-30-2012, 11:28 AM
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I agree that the technology does exist to do this - although I'm not sure of its accuracy, because the amount of oil in the system and suspended in the engine waiting to drain back into the pan would vary based on engine speed.

However, what matters most is understanding the system as it exists. It's not difficult to remember to check the oil and understand the difference between oil pressure and oil level.

If I spend $20K or $30K for any piece of equipment, I WANT to understand how it works.

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