Replacing Xenon headlights

[smittyndahouse]

I just purchased my first Murano and I like the Xenon headlights but I'd like them to be a little brighter. Does anyone know how many K the factory bulbs are in the 2004's?

Also, say you have 6,000K now can I upgrade to lets say 8,000K or 12,000K by simply changing out the blubs?

Thanks!

[DavidHart]

Originally Posted by smittyndahouse

I just purchased my first Murano and I like the Xenon headlights but I'd like them to be a little brighter. Does anyone know how many K the factory bulbs are in the 2004's?

Also, say you have 6,000K now can I upgrade to lets say 8,000K or 12,000K by simply changing out the blubs?

Thanks!

I'm not sure what the temperature the factory bulbs are, but I replaced my headlight and fog light bulbs with these:

1x Hoen Vega D2S 5800k
- Headlights

1x 9006 Hoen 55w xenonmatch bulb pair
- Fog Lights

They are a bit brighter and produce a white light.

Another thing that I did this summer is use headlight cleaner to remove haze from the headlight plastic. I'm guessing, though, that if you bought yours from a dealer they would have already cleaned things up for you.

David

[njjoe]

Originally Posted by smittyndahouse

I just purchased my first Murano and I like the Xenon headlights but I'd like them to be a little brighter.

Brighter? You do realize that once you go above 4500K the light output actually decreases, right? An 8000 or 12000K lamp actually puts out less lumens than the 4500K lamp.

-njjoe

[turbizzy]

Originally Posted by njjoe

Brighter? You do realize that once you go above 4500K the light output actually decreases, right? An 8000 or 12000K lamp actually puts out less lumens than the 4500K lamp.

-njjoe

He's right. 5000k is about the brightest, white you can get. After that it just gets bluer and purple at 12000k.

I agree with you though, the factory HIDs are not as bright as one would assume they'd be. Alot of times its due to the headlamp lenses fading but overall they're not that bright imo.

What I've been thinking about doing is, if my ballasts ever go out im gonna get some aftermarket 55W ballasts from DDM tuning as i beleive we have the 35W versions and that will def brighten the lights.

[Kris]

Originally Posted by turbizzy

.......What I've been thinking about doing is, if my ballasts ever go out im gonna get some aftermarket 55W ballasts from DDM tuning as i beleive we have the 35W versions and that will def brighten the lights.

''Yes, it will brighten them....temporary though...after that they will be "coocked".....and you will be on the market for new bulbs....

[Phatty McPatty]

OE HID bulbs have a correlated color temperature (CCT) of 4,100 - 4,250 Kelvin. Kelvin is a measure of color, not luminosity. So trying to "upgrade" brightness by comparing degrees in Kelvin is a comparison between apples and oranges. 5,000k bulbs aren't the "brightest" bulbs available -- the brightest bulbs are actually the ones that come from the factory. Higher CCT capsules produce less light; The light it produces is also harder for the human eye to process. HID bulbs decrease luminous output as they age while color-shifting to blue (less usable light). Since your bulbs are likely the originals, you can replace them with quality bulbs from a legitimate manufacturer and have bright headlights again.

There is good reason that factory and high quality aftermarket HID headlights are supplied with bulbs that produce light of ~ 4,200k -- the bling-hype about being able to see better with bluer light is just not supported by science. The human eye has less cone photoreceptors sensitive to blue light (S), than green (M) or red (L). The spectrum range detected by blue-sensitive cones is narrower than either green or red [see image below]. It's assumed our eyes are sensitive to higher-wavelengths because the majority of our food (plants and animals) tends to reflect those colors (greens, browns, etc). Intense, bluish light irritates the human eye.

Read more here: Color vision - Wikipedia

FYI, the HID bulbs in 35-watt and 50-watt HID setups are exactly the same. The increase is caused by overdriving 35-watt ballasts and bulbs -- seriously decreasing lifespan. One more FYI, only 35-watt bulbs/ballasts are street legal.

Stick with genuine bulbs from reputable brands such as GE, Philips or Osram-Sylvania. I think the MO comes from the factory with Koito brand bulbs. Also, stay within the nominal road-legal CCT range.

[Phatty McPatty]

Originally Posted by DavidHart

I replaced my headlight and fog light bulbs with these:

1x Hoen Vega D2S 5800k
- Headlights

1x 9006 Hoen 55w xenonmatch bulb pair
- Fog Lights

They are a bit brighter and produce a white light.

Technically speaking, the light emitted is as "white" as the original bulbs -- simply because white is not an absolute but rather a range. I think you mean that the light is bluer, but it's best to think of the light as "less amber". And these bulbs may appear brighter, but neither bulb is actually brighter.

HID: Bulbs by major manufacturers with a CCT of 4,200k output the most light.
HALOGEN: A tinted bulb is dimmer than its clear counterpart -- no exceptions. Tint is a filter, so it cannot add anything; it subtracts (in this case, filters out amber light). Since halogen light is primarily amber light, you've actually lost quite a bit of brightness. These bulbs are more expensive, dimmer and fail much sooner than halogen bulbs with clear envelopes.

Originally Posted by DavidHart

Another thing that I did this summer is use headlight cleaner to remove haze from the headlight plastic.

That's sound advice, just be aware that polishing the lens removes the UV protective coating. Be sure to purchase a restoration kit that includes both a polish and a protectant or it will haze/yellow again.

[nitely]

Actually 6500K temperature is considered daylight and the brightest you can find visible and useful to the human eye. Over this temp. it all goes whiter and bluer that gets more useful to photosynthetic plants and animals. If you dive in a reef/ocean after a certain depth all you see is the blue light that penetrates deeper than the yellow daylight can.

Now if you use a 6500K temp. bulb with 2 different wattage say 35 watts and 50watts using 35 and 50 watt ballast accordingly the difference would be the distance of the light coverage. Giving more visible coverage with the higher wattage bulb and ballast. Good example is the hids they use in the ball park. Those I think are 1000 watt bulbs between 4500-6500K temp. The more wattage you give the more light coverage you get with the same visible color--which is in the yellow spectrum. However, you cannot use a 35 watt bulb on a 50 watt ballast--it will burn the bulb out real quick if not immedietely.

[DavidHart]

I find that the original HIDs to be on the yellowish side of white and the Heon HIDs to be close to pure white. I find that this makes lines, reflectors, and signs "pop" more with more accurate daylight colors. If not "brighter" they are at least as bright as the originals.

I understand that the photo-receptors in our eyes are more sensitive to specific colors but headlights are just meant to light up the objects in front of the car at night. They aren't meant to cause color-shift. From this perspective, it makes sense to use orange, yellow, and green for dash lights, road signs and markings, etc. As such, one would think that headlights more closely approximating daylight would be preferable.

[turbizzy]

All i know is the factory HIDs suck just like the factory Navi. Thats all

[njjoe]

Originally Posted by turbizzy

All i know is the factory HIDs suck just like the factory Navi. Thats all

It is all relative.

When I replaced my stock halogens with factory HIDs I was blown away by the improvement.

-njjoe

[Kris]

Originally Posted by turbizzy

All i know is the factory HIDs suck just like the factory Navi. Thats all

Turbizzy

actually the HID light on Murano are quite good. The problem with the factory set up is they they are aiming too low. I had same problem with FX35. Once adjusted correctly (as per Nissan manual) they are great.

Just my 2c..........adjusted for inflation

[turbizzy]

Iunno... i hate to argue with you guys but i still say the oem xenon lights suck compared to what they could be. I remember when our Murano was brand new back when my sister first bought it, I was driving around a familiar winding dark road in it and couldn't believe how much the lights sucked in the Murano compared to my wife's brand new Sentra SER with halogens and Sylvania Silverstar bulbs in the same road.

[Phatty McPatty]

Originally Posted by nitely

Actually 6500K temperature is considered daylight and the brightest you can find visible and useful to the human eye.

Yes, 6,500k is considered daylight, just as much as 3,000k and everything in between (sunrise, sunset, noonday, cloudy, foggy -- they're all considered daylight; and all have very different "white" hues). Daylight is as vaguely defined as "warm" or "best" or for this argument, "white" or "bright". As njjoe said, it's all relative. Speaking of bright, don't confuse color temperature with brightness. 6500k is not "the brightest" anything; it's simply a specific measurement of white light.

Originally Posted by nitely

Over this temp. it all goes whiter and bluer that gets more useful to photosynthetic plants and animals. If you dive in a reef/ocean after a certain depth all you see is the blue light that penetrates deeper than the yellow daylight can.

Sure, that's because blue light has a higher frequency than green and red light. But what does that have to do with human sight and safe road illumination? To the human eye, intense blue light equates to intense glare. Have you ever driven by a police car at night with flashing blue LEDs? It's downright disorienting because intense bluish light quickly overloads your vision; ie glare.

Originally Posted by nitely

Now if you use a 6500K temp. bulb with 2 different wattage say 35 watts and 50watts using 35 and 50 watt ballast...

There is no such thing as a 50-watt ballast or 50-watt HID bulb in the automotive world.

Originally Posted by nitely

However, you cannot use a 35 watt bulb on a 50 watt ballast--it will burn the bulb out real quick if not immedietely.

Actually you can -- that's what a "50-watt HID kit" is. It's an over-driven 35-watt ballast and bulb. You're right though, their lifespan is greatly decreased by the increased voltage.

Originally Posted by DavidHart

I find that the original HIDs to be on the yellowish side of white and the Heon HIDs to be close to pure white. I find that this makes lines, reflectors, and signs "pop" more with more accurate daylight colors. If not "brighter" they are at least as bright as the originals.

Yes, OE HID lighting (4,300k) is yellower than anything with a CCT above that. I understand it might seem like they are brighter, but your perception is inaccurate. HID luminosity decreases over 4,300k. It appears brighter to your eyes because of the glare; bluish light overloads your receptors and tells your brain "it's very bright", but it's really not, your eyes just can't handle the light.

But let's look at the subject from a different standpoint. Do you think that the world's automotive lighting designers / lawmakers arbitrarily picked ~4,300k as the standard for HID light color? I'm sure you agree it would be ignorant to assume that. It was chosen because that hue of white light was the best balance of natural "looking" light and color rendering HID lighting can give.

Originally Posted by DavidHart

As such, one would think that headlights more closely approximating daylight would be preferable.

Judging light performance solely on color temperature is grossly over-simplifying the important aspects of the physics of light and how it relates to safe illumination. Much more important than the color of the light source is the affect its light has on the color of everything it illuminates. The current global standard, Color Rendering Index, measures vividness and naturalness of colors under different light sources. The key is that two colors of lamps can have the same color temperature but render colors very differently. See here, here and here.


Sunlight (especially when filtered through our atmosphere) has smooth light distribution across the visible spectrum.



So does a glowing filament.



HID lighting does not. Instead it has spikes of "color", which is why it doesn't reproduce objects naturally like sunlight; hence the poor CRI rating.



From Daniel Stern Lighting:

"Probably the biggest issue is HID headlamps' significantly worse color rendering index (CRI), which is in the high-60s to low-70s range. Halogen headlamps' CRI tends to be around 90 to 97 or so. In English, this means that the human eye's color perception and differentiation is much, much better under halogen light than under the light produced by automotive HID headlamps.

"As an illustration of the fact that color temperature does not automatically bear on headlamp quality, consider this: The selective-yellow headlamps required for so many decades in France were shown, in a couple of studies, to improve (or at least not to reduce) driver performance at night... BUT, a sodium lamp, which is a kind of HID lamp, would make a *lousy* headlamp even though its color temperature is not far from that of a selective-yellow headlamp. That's because sodium lamps have EXTREMELY low color rendering indices. Many sodium lamps suck almost ALL of the color from whatever they illuminate, creating a black-and-yellow world. There are sodium safelights for use in photo darkrooms, and the monochromatic-world effect you perceive in such a darkroom is very eery until you get used to it. In a driving task, this would be a disaster! Color is a very important information carrier in our task to see what we're seeing."

I'm not going to copy and paste everything; please read the full article here. Lots of good info.

Originally Posted by turbizzy

Iunno... i hate to argue with you guys but i still say the oem xenon lights suck compared to what they could be. I remember when our Murano was brand new back when my sister first bought it, I was driving around a familiar winding dark road in it and couldn't believe how much the lights sucked in the Murano compared to my wife's brand new Sentra SER with halogens and Sylvania Silverstar bulbs in the same road.

You're not arguing, you're agreeing! HID lighting is far inferior to glowing filament lighting. Seriously, read Stern's article above.

But lets assume the HID headlights on the MO do perform poorly. That's not a brightness issue, that's a optics issue. Adding more light (or dimmer, bluer light) to poorly designed optics just makes matters worse.

[njjoe]

PMcP-

Excellent post.

Unfortunately, this debate is never-ending.

-njjoe