To buy or not to buy ?

[Shivi]

May be I got incepted, but I have been playing around with the idea to trade-in my 06 SL for a 11 SL.

Reasons:-

a) I need a vehicle with all the creature comforts that I can drive for the next decade and junk.

b) The MO 06 has a suspension that makes me cringe at times. I am hoping the 2nd gen SL has a smoother ride.

c) I got a SL that lacks heated seats, HID lights, power liftgate, memory seats. I live in New england and did install a remote start. But, has not been enough to warm the seats or the wheel. The wife and I use the MO, so the memory seat would be a nice to have. (all these thx to the lack of due diligence on my part when buying the SL)

d) The 11 speaker Bose and the dual sun roof will certainly be nice upgrades to the current 6 speaker bose + sun roof.

e) The warranty for 3 years and reduced cost of maintenance.

f) Since 2012 Mo is out, hoping 2011 new Mos will sell at a discount at the dealers. I have around 10k pending on my current 5 yr loan at 3.5%. I am hoping if I get the 0% APR on the new car, that will save me a considerable amount.

Questions:-

1) Can someone let me know if statement b) is valid ?

2) Trading in a good idea with some outstanding loan on the current MO?

3) Is there anyway I can get a deal for around close to 30k for the 11 SL ?

4) Did I really get incepted ???

[nitely]

1. You probably have a suspension issues. Struts, LCA...

2. You will have a new car but money wise, with all the options you want, I don't think there is any gain. Look for prices below invoice on the new one though. I guess its gonna be the LE. Good luck.

[slriv]

I've considered this as well. I have a 2010 SL, and although I still think I can just hack the ipod support, I'd almost rather upgrade to an LE and also get AWD. Basically that's all I'm lacking in the SL. I have the moonroof, nav, bose and all that other stuff already. Anyway, no matter how I slice it, it will end up costing me more money, so I've decided to just drive the SL until it breaks. As far as ride quality. I'm pretty pleased with the 2010. Suspension is somewhat soft, but not land yacht soft.

[nitely]

I don't get it....Do you have 2 MOs?

[Shivi]

I didnt get it either...btw..I made up my mind I am not going for a LE as I heard the 20' wheels make the ride relatively rough

[HVT]

My 2011 SL rides like a dream.

[nitely]

OK my bad. I thought slriv was still the op-shivi. Got cross eyed there for a sec.

[BillArf]

Originally Posted by Shivi

I didnt get it either...btw..I made up my mind I am not going for a LE as I heard the 20' wheels make the ride relatively rough

Well, I have ridden many miles in both an '11 SL and an '11 LE and can tell you that I noticed little if any difference in the ride quality between the two. They both ride nice..

[falconsfan78]

The 2011 SL is a great ride, If your really serious about getting one i got one fully loaded for just over 32k in November in 2011. I'm sure now if any are left they are a real steal. The only stuff i don't have is the 20 wheels and the hid lights and the heated back seat. I read the same thing about the ride, and my wife paid a lot for her new HID light in her 06 maxima so i was worried about that cost and labor when the time came so i don't miss teh HID to much. If your really serious i wold get the SL, its really a great ride.

[medic1]

Can't say much for the Gen 1 MO. But as far as my 2011 SL goes I love it. Rides like a dream. But I came from a Chevy HHR. I paid a little under 32k for mine a week and a half ago. It had 7 miles on it when I pulled off of the lot for the first time.

[Pilgrim]

Do NOTHING until you have driven the car you're considering. If I recall correctly, you complained about the Murano's ride earlier...so DO NOT buy one until you have driven it long enough to be sure you will be comfortable in it.

My guess is that it's the wrong vehicle for you and you want an Edge or something with a softer ride.

[Wallybear]

I can tell you that the 2011 and 2012 SL and LE ride almost the same, regardless of the 18-inch or 20-inch wheels. I drove all of these one Saturday for a total of about 50 miles. I first considered a 2011, but the extra rebate was only $1000, which was not enough to offset the depreciation (not so much an issue if you will never sell or trade in the vehicle). I first considered an SV because I thought I wanted cloth seats and thought it was the best value. But, the salesman wisely put us in an SL with navigation and let us take it for as long as we wanted (about 30 minutes after having just driven the SV for an hour). The leather seats were much more comfortable in terms of padding and support and the Bose radio was AMAZINGLY better than the base radio in the SV. I also liked the power liftgate feature, so I then decided I'd get an SL. It would be a better long-term value and I'd have the great radio.

But, then I considered the LE (only $2000 more sticker price) when I found it would actually be only about $1300 more (dealer cost) as I had already discussed with the salesman paying no more than the invoice price. The extra equipment is worth a lot more than $1300: you get the HID xenon lights (if you've ever had HID lights as I have, then you know how wonderful they are), heated rear seats (nice as I often have three in my car), power steering wheel adjustment (wonderfully linked to the seat memory) and wood-tone trim (nice looking, but I actually was more than OK with the aluminum trim). I was, however, concerned about the ride with the 20-inch wheels, so I took one for a long drive over roads that I knew very well (yes, the dealer was more than accommodating and let us take it by ourselves). To be honest, I could not tell any real difference in the ride. I could, however, tell that the cornering ability of the car was noticeably improved by the bigger wheels. So, I was pretty sold on getting the LE. But then....

...the next weekend when I was shopping again (looking at some competition too), I saw that the Nissan dealer had gotten a dozen new LEs on their lot with the Platinum package ($2020) with the navigation system, a couple of trim changes, and the best part: some really killer-looking 20-inch wheels. Wow! When I saw one in Pearl White, I was hooked. I think the Platinum package wheels are so much better looking than the older-style ones on the standard LE. Before these dozen Platinum LEs appeared on the lot, they only had one (in Black which I would never consider buying). I asked the salesman why they seemed in shorter supply. He admitted that when customers are considering the LE, they usually want the Platinum package because it's not that much more and "it's got everything" (as well it should have for $43,060 MSRP). He agreed with me that one reason my trade was so valuable was it had all the options so as a used car there was relatively more demand for it compared to one with fewer options. So, within a few hours, we were driving a "White LE Plat" home. I briefly considered the red and blue cars, but decided the paint was too dark and too conservative. The Pearl White LE Platinum actually makes a statement of good taste and high style all at the same time. Now that I've had a chance to study all that the HDD Navigation can do, I'm so glad I got that feature, too. (Geesh, I should be selling these cars, huh?)

OK. Back to your situation. I think you can get an amazing deal on a Murano right now. I took the $2000 cash back because I plan to pay off the loan within 3 years so I wanted their money up front. If you do the math, you'll see that it takes about 4 years to get back the $2000 in interest savings although the payment at 0% is lower. So, I suggest you consider the numbers for your situation. That is, how much will you finance and for how long? How good is your credit score? If you don't have a FICO score above about 721, you won't qualify for the 0%.

At least in my city, the five Nissan dealers are well stocked right now and so they are all offering to sell at, or below, invoice. I was able to get more than top dollar on my trade, so with the cash back, I saved about $5600 off the sticker price of the Murano. That is an amazing bargain considering what the competition (such as the Infiniti FX that is sold across the street from the Nissans here) goes for. And forget about the value, quality, and all other factors if you buy a Ford or a Honda or even a Lexus or Infiniti. They are all overpriced and/or under engineered, in my humble opinion.

I should disclose that another reason I sold my Toyota RAV4 for the Nissan Murano is that we also own a 2008 Nissan Altima Coupe (SE V6). The Coupe has been a very reliable, very comfortable (for 2), and a lots-of-fun-to-drive car. Thus, the Murano was very familiar in terms of its great looks, build and materials quality, driving feel, and especially the value. We got a great deal on the Altima 4 years ago (a rebate was one reason we tried it) after having owned all sorts of high-end brands (BMW, Audi, Acura, Cadillac) over the years since our last Nissan (a 1991 Maxima). To tell you the truth, I think Nissan is such a good value right now because they have such great niche products that have style, solid engineering, reliability, and most of all, great value in terms of equipment vs. cost. I predict that as soon as Nissan brings the new 2013 Altima to the market (as well as a new Pathfinder, Sentra, and Rouge within the next 2 years), their market share will go up. Why? Well, because the big player (Toyota) has stumbled so badly so quickly.

What do I mean by stumble? Well, Toyota always plays it safe by selling bland, boring, but very reliable cares (in the past they were, but not now). The brand used to sell amazingly well for the same reason Chevrolet used to sell so well: most middle-market American buyers want something simple, nondescript, and yes, even bland, to drive. Why do you think the Camry is the best selling car in the country? It's bland, boring, yet a "safe" bet. Too bad Toyota started cutting costs and corners at the expense of quality and reliability and safety (which is very similar to what GM did not that long ago which led to its bankruptcy). Although Toyota is fighting to come back to respectability, I can tell you that even the Toyota dealers I visited in the past 2 months are discouraged with their own products. I drove a Highlander (bland and bloated, boring and yet "safe" as a buying choice) and a Venza (not that bad looking as its the most daring look to come out of Toyota in decades), but I found its interior build and materials quality to be astoundingly bad. Again, even the dealer told me they had a hard time moving Venzas because of the obviously cheap interiors....which have not been changed even though this is the model's 5th model year...in a $35,000 car. The sales manager agreed with my prediction that the Venza will be dropped after 2012, making any investment in one right a big mistake.

I bought the 2008 RAV4 four years ago because at the time it seemed like the best choice (didn't think much of the older Murano back then), and even though it was in big demand, I got a good deal on it as it was loaded and most people buying them at the time wanted the cheaper 4-cylinder models that cost less than $25,000. One mistake: I didn't drive it long enough before buying to realize how cramped the front seat is (it does not fit me so I always felt jammed into the seat and too close to the wheel). At first, I liked the strong, smooth V6 motor, but the shine started to wear off with the arrival of the first of 6 serious recall notices. When Toyota refused to fix the cold-engine knocking noise that developed over the years (I always ran synthetic oil and changed every 6 months) with the excuse that "it is within normal parameters for this engine in this model", that's when they lost me as a customer. The Highlander and Venza both have the same engine, so I drove them to see if they were noisy (not so much) and if they were worth more than a RAV4 (they were not).

So, here I go rambling on about Toyotas. Well, I won't bother you with my take on others such as Ford or Jeep or Acura or Audi...all of which I drove before buying a Murano. All I'll say in closing is that I suggest you get as much car as you can (there's more markup and thus more discount available the more the MSRP is) afford and that you test drive all of the models you will consider YOURSELF before deciding. Don't trust what anyone here says (including me) about the ride. You drive it and decide. If you are shy about test driving cars, get over that. I bet that any Nissan dealer will be pleased to let you drive anything you want for as long as you want if it means you're actually considering buying one. If you do get an old-fashioned, hard-pressure dealer (there are still a few of those), go find a modern, customer-service-friendly dealer (there are lots more of those now). Get in the car and drive it yourself.

If you decide you want to buy one, offer them what you think will be rejected (say $1000 under invoice) and then be very happy that within 30 minutes or so they agree to sell you one for $500 under invoice. January is such a wonderful time to buy a new car, especially if you live in a cold area as I do. Relatively few other shoppers are buying, so you get to name your price. It's that way for all makes and most models right now. Used car values are at an all-time high, making buying a new car even easier than it has been. Haven't you noticed how bad the economy is?

FINALLY, to answer your questions directly, here goes:

Questions:

1) Can someone let me know if statement b) is valid ? YES, THE 2nd GENERATION MODELS RIDE MUCH BETTER.

2) Trading in a good idea with some outstanding loan on the current MO? DEPENDS ON THE NUMBERS, INCLUDING YOUR CREDIT RATING.

3) Is there anyway I can get a deal for around close to 30k for the 11 SL? I DOUBT IT...I'D GUESS MORE LIKE $33K FOR A 2011 SL.

4) Did I really get incepted ??? I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HECK YOU MEAN. "INCEPTED" IS NOT AN ENGLISH WORD. <grin>

[Shivi]

Thanks Wallybear for such an elaborate response. My prejudice towards LE is based on few reviews I read regarding the ride. Like Pilgrim said, I am not a big fan of my Mo's suspension. I will definitely test drive both SL and LE. And Pilgrim, Yes, I kinda rushed into my previous purchase. Lesson learnt. I will take the time on this one. If the suspension on the 2nd gen turns out to be the same as my Mo. I probly will shelve the idea of a new MO. I already have couple of quotes from true car purchase for $32,000 on the SL. If I end up trading in my 06 MO, I really dont want to spend more than 16k extra (the private pary KBB value comes to $15k on my current MO). My credit score is pretty good and I am not desperate for the new car. So, If I dont get the deal I want , I can walk away in a giffy.
I checked truecar.com and couple of other sites for the pricing, are there any other good ones you would recommend.
Also, I believe the SL does come with HID. I thot it is just HID vs Bi-Xenon on the LE ?

(Incepted as in the movie Inception. Just collaquial term for your mind being hacked into )

[Wallybear]

I looked up values on TrueCar.com and others (Edmunds, Kelly). The dealer resisted discussing the TrueCar data because it does reveal the holdback money which is more or less their big "secret." What the dealer was willing to do was show me their internal documentation of the numbers (invoice and other costs but not the holdback) which I was able to confirm were correct by checking the number with the TrueCar figures. No dealer is going to make no money on a deal; they are in business after all and no consumer should expect to buy something for nothing. A dealer can "walk away" just as fast as a consumer can from a deal that leaves them with no cash in their pocket. The dealer and I agree to use Edmunds for the used car price because it is more realistic than Kelly (which runs high). I also took the time to go to the Toyota dealers near me and asked for a written bid for a "curb price" meaning what they would buy it for without a new car deal being involved. Those two bids (which were within $200 of each other) were also in my back pocket when I went a-dealing. These bids established the true value locally of my car versus the general, estimated price offered by the websites. By the way, the TrueCar site isn't a consumer-advocate site, even if it appears to be. Their business model is to sell your information to the dealer as part of their "negotiating" package. Any dealer will know that TrueCar is not a "true deal" for their business, so I wouldn't brag about the numbers you see there too loudly. Just ask to see the internal pricing doc for the car you want to buy. If the dealer resists, get up to leave. It will be produced within a few minutes, I'm sure.

You mentioned a TrueCar price estimate of $32K for an SL. The dealer cost (which includes the $2000 cash back rebate) is $33,336 for an AWD model. The FWD SL costs the dealer about $31,909. But, no dealer is going to sell the car with no profit. Figure on paying at least half of the holdback as the dealer profit. That means add about $600 to the lowest price. Also, the dealer will no doubt have a "Documentation Fee" of about $300 which is not negotiable (this is their safety cushion) and will always try to include some kind of "pack" (such as a key-replacement warranty or VIN etching on the windows). Since you don't want, and didn't ask for, the "packs", refuse to buy them. They are all profit for the dealer.

In case you care, I paid about $500 over cost for my car. Several factors were involved in the dealer being willing to go so low for me: 1) my trade was very desirable to them, 2) they had lots of new Muranos already on and more arriving on their lot in January, 3) there are fewer buyers for the LE Platinum than the SV or even SL models, and 4) I drove a hard bargain as I played one dealer against the other (i.e., another dealer was offering 4 years of free maintenance which I used as the leverage to push the deal down as low as I did). So, I assume you think you'll spend $32K for a FWD SL. I don't know where you live, but where I live (Rocky Mountains), there are no FWD cars. No one will buy them here as the whole point of a cross-over/SUV is AWD ability even if it's not needed that often.

Another factor to consider is that the 2012 Murano just had a $400 price jump in cars built after Jan 1. This means that the price shown on the NissanUSA site is higher than the MSRP on the cars on the lots. I saw this difference, and I made it clear to the dealer that I was willing to pay the old price (invoice), not the new $400 extra price. That's when the internal documentation was brought forth. The fact is the price the dealer pays for a car is its invoice on the date it was "sold" (invoiced) to the dealer. So, if they are able to pass on any price increases retroactively, they make more money. Just something to consider when you go looking at website prices versus MSRP prices on vehicles that are actually sitting on the dealer lots.

Finally, the SL (at least as sold in the USA) does NOT come with HID (which means "high-intensity discharge" lights which are always xenon bulbs) headlights. The SL has the standard halogen lights, just like all the other cheaper models. Only the LE model comes with HID lights. That's the main reason for the extra $1900 cost for the LE as the HID system is always a mark-up (i.e., profit making) feature for all makes. HID lights don't actually cost the maker thousands more to install, they just let them make hundreds more on the cars that do have them. For example, take a look at the Rogue with the SL package. It has Navigation and HID lights and Bose radio, leather seats, etc., etc.. It's an amazing package in terms of value as all those features cost more than $3900 on the Murano. If you break down the cost of the SL features on a Rogue (the MSRP is $3900), you'll see that somewhere in there is a few hundred dollars for the HID lights.

For reference, the USA-spec LE model has this added equipment for an extra $1900 over the SL model:

--20" aluminum-alloy wheels,
--silver-accented roof rails,
--High Intensity Discharge (HID) bi-functional xenon projector headlights,
--heated rear seats,
--power-tilt and power-telescoping steering column with memory position, and
--wood-tone trim.

For an extra $2020, you get this in the Platinum package:
--HDD Navigation system (with Music Box, touch screen, voice activation, XMNavtraffic and Weather, and Bluetooth streaming audio),
--unique 20-inch wheels,
--rear bumper protector (an accessory that costs $100), and
--a "Platinum" badge on the right-rear corner of the cargo door.


One more comment about "the ride" of the newer Murano. I am very pleased with it myself and I've become a more discriminating critic of this aspect recently. I drove a 2004 BWM X3 for a 3-year lease and hated almost every bump in the road (now that was a hard-riding car!). I thought I had learned my lesson about buying a car without driving it for a good long time. My next car was a 2008 RAV4 which I drove for 4 1/2 years. Its ride was much, much better than the X3's, but I realized eventually that it was rather harsh, even for a car with 17-inch wheels. It actually road better fully loaded. The first thing I noticed as I drove a 2012 Murano (an AWD SV) off the dealer's lot was its smooth, quiet ride. The next thing was the amazing smoothness/responsiveness of the drivetrain (which is even better than that of our 2008 Altima). My RAV4 with its V6 engine was a tire-smoker, so I had enjoyed a responsive car. I wanted to be sure the Murano was powerful enough, so I drive a more broken-in Murano on the dealer's lot (it had 200 miles on it). Now, as I've been breaking in my Murano, I've been avoiding the highways and freeways (to keep the RPMs down and to further evaluate the ride). I consider the ride of the LE I bought to be similar to the ride of any luxury-make sedan I've ridden in. Another big difference between my Murano and my RAV4 is in the handling. I can't get over how much fun it is to fling the Murano around corners (with bumps) that would have resulted in a jarring and tilting experience in my RAV4. The lesson here was that I had actually thought the RAV4 was a good rider until I tried something better (that is, the Murano and almost all the other competing cars I drove while I was comparison shopping). I suppose that I thought the RAV4 was good back in late 2007 because the X3 I had been driving for 3 years was so, so bad in that department. I didn't lease another X3 at the time (or buy the one I had leased) because of the ride. They've fixed that problem in the newer generation X3, but the interior is more compact now which was a deal-breaker for me (along with its high price and my history with BWM which showed me how unreliable they can be).

I hope all this information is helpful to you. Good luck on your journey, wherever it leads you. Peace...

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Wallybear

You mentioned a TrueCar price estimate of $32K for an SL. The dealer cost (which includes the $2000 cash back rebate) is $33,336 for an AWD model. The FWD SL costs the dealer about $31,909. But, no dealer is going to sell the car with no profit. Figure on paying at least half of the holdback as the dealer profit.

My dealer immediately matched the Truecar price when I bought my 2011 S. It would be silly of them not to since you can buy the car through Truecar for that price guaranteed.

As far as the ride quality, I thought the 1st gen Murano was known for having a pretty firm ride. Although Nissan may have softened it up in the latter production years. So the OP would be right to assume that the 2nd gen Murano will probably have a softer ride. I do miss the HID's on my Murano, the stock halogens suck, but I don't know if I'd drop $2k extra over an SL just for the HID's.