| Gonzo |
I was talking with a friend of mine abouit idling. Asside from bad for the environment I think it is bad for the engine and systems.
I tried to research it but couldn't find anything meaningful on the web.
Can anyone provide any pointers for either side?
Idling, cold eninge, warm engine a few minues.... 30 minutes etc.
The only thing I can find on the web was mainly authored by tree huggers, I want hard facts.
Thanks. |
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| Homer |
quote:
Originally posted by Gonzo
I was talking with a friend of mine abouit idling. Asside from bad for the environment I think it is bad for the engine and systems.
I tried to research it but couldn't find anything meaningful on the web.
Can anyone provide any pointers for either side?
Idling, cold eninge, warm engine a few minues.... 30 minutes etc.
The only thing I can find on the web was mainly authored by tree huggers, I want hard facts.
Thanks.
Well for one, if the idle is low enough, the alternator might not be providing enough juice for everything, also I forget the exact numbers, but I think its like 8 hours of idling is the same wear and tear as a few hundred miles of driving.. I can't remember the exact numbers. Anyways... its not HORRIBLE for the car, but it does cause wear and tear. |
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| Gonzo |
| Wear and tear in what sense? Whenever the engine is running there is wear and tear... more so when idling? |
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| Homer |
quote:
Originally posted by Gonzo
Wear and tear in what sense? Whenever the engine is running there is wear and tear... more so when idling?
As far as I know theres no additional wear and tear while idling than normal, but its not taken into account in the odometer. Taxies and police cars have idle clocks to help the fleet managers know when to change the oil. They show the number of hours the car has been idling since the odometer can't tell you that. |
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| njjoe |
Gonzo-
I would think the engine has less wear during idle, as compared to high-speed driving, because the engine is under significantly less load and is generating much less heat. How much less per hour is anyone's guess.
Homer brought up a good point about the alternator, however most modern cars are designed with an alternator that can handle the demand at idle. However, in some cases the alternator is not up to the task. My brother had a take-home Police car that was spec'd out without a heavy-duty alternator. The car would stop running after an hour or so if left idling with the overhead-lights, A/C, and police radios all turned on. It was almost comical.
-njjoe |
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| biggun |
No facts, but my opinion is that there is more wear and tear on stopping and starting a car (particularly on the starter) than idling a car. If you stop a car prior to full warm up it may create additional condensation in exhaust versus topping after warm up. So if I travel less than 10 miles without having the car warmed up, I will leave it running (ex., a trip to the convenience store).
I would say that 20 minutes (or at least 10 miles) is when a car is fully warmed up. This is what is programmed into most remote starters and also the time period required to warm up the car prior to inspection sticker emissions testing. |
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| Homer |
quote:
Originally posted by biggun
condensation in exhaust
You just reminded me of another bad part of idling... There is plenty of condensation that builds up in the exhaust pipes that isn't forced out under idle, but when you drive away it is (watch a police car drive away after it sits for 5 hours, you'll see water flying out the tail). Not sure if this is terrible for the car or not, but its not normal behavior. |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by Homer
You just reminded me of another bad part of idling... There is plenty of condensation that builds up in the exhaust pipes that isn't forced out under idle, but when you drive away it is (watch a police car drive away after it sits for 5 hours, you'll see water flying out the tail). Not sure if this is terrible for the car or not, but its not normal behavior.
Water vapor is a by-product of the combustion process. It is present when you burn any fuel (wood, oil, gas, etc).
If the ambient temperature is low, the water vapor will condense in the exhaust system and exit as water.
If the ambient temperature is high or the exhaust gasses have sufficiently heated the exhaust system then the water vapor will remain a vapor as it exits the tail pipe.
-njjoe |
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| Eric L. |
Idling is not bad for the engine, assuming everything such as the charging and cooling system are also working well. You'd be wasting gas and polluting the environment unnecessarily though. This topic comes up on NPR's Cartalk at least once a year - someone leaves their car idling for hours *accidentally* and then calls to ask whether it damaged the engine. Tom and Ray's answer is always "no."
The majority of wear is when you start the engine. Low load conditions such as cruising or idling are situations where the engine experiences the least wear.
Personally I'm a cheapskate so I do not like letting the engine idle if I have to wait more than say, a minute. It annoys me when I see people idling just to run the heater/AC after they've already parked/stopped to wait for someone at the curb.
As for whether idling will warm the engine up to eliminate condensation, it absolutely will - exhaust is pretty hot, and if the engine has reached operating temp, it should be enough to heat up the exhaust system and evaporate any condensation. Remember there is a fair amt of exhaust pressure even during idle. |
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| Lightninrod |
Idling an engine after a 'cold' startup has always been a pet peeve of mine. I absolutely believe that it is very harmful to the engine and unnecessary.
A cold engine should be started and immediately(if there is oil pressure present) driven.....slowly away. Driving it slowly the first few miles allows for everything to be working internally and the engine will reach its proper operating temp under optimum conditions.
And, other things need to warm up properly too; brake pads/rotors, tires/air pressure, shocks, suspension joints, bearings, etc., none of which warm up at all if the vehicle is standing still at idle.
quotes from several internet sites:
quote:
The preferred engine warmup routine today is this:
1) Start the car. Wait for the oil light to go out or the oil gage go up.
2) Any time after you have oil pressure, you can drive away. Take it easy and under 45-50 MPH (the slower the better) until the engine warms up (about 3-5 miles or 5-10 minutes)
If your heater is warm, so is your motor. Drive as normal.
The reason for "warming up under load" is that going down the road slowly the engine is often at a lower RPM (esp. automatic tranny models) than warmup at idle; DEFINATELY better than revving the engine in the driveway!!
quote:
You do not Rev a cold motor the new vehicle just start and go don't wait till its warm it will get warmer faster if driven idling is not good for the motor either just or by the time you get to the free way the motor is ready for that speed , a cold engine wears out faster that a warm engine this is fact
quote:
I don't know who has taught most people how to start cars on a cold morning, but they weren't taught by someone with any car sense. Cold oil has an adverse dislike to speed. It likes to linger in the oil pan just like people like to linger in bed on a cold morning. And motor parts don't like rubbing together without lubrication. Oil slowed by cold doesn't make it to the moving parts as fast as warm oil. Yet, people have a need to make those moving parts work their metals off. And, yes, synthetic oils are getting better, but even they still like to be somewhat lazy on cold mornings.
quote:
If you're always in too big of a hurry to let the engine idle awhile, there is no need to. Matter of fact, letting a gas engine idle too long is almost as bad as revving the carbon monoxide out of it on a cold morning. Idling a gas engine lets gas deposits seep past the rings down the cylinder walls into the oil. An idling engine doesn't burn gas as well as a working engine.
Dan |
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| Gonzo |
| Thanks for all the inputs. |
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| Bambus |
:Idling an engine after a 'cold' startup has always been a pet peeve of mine. I absolutely believe that it is very harmful to the engine and unnecessary.
Hey, No disrespect in any way, BUT we are getting Cold Start Idiling tips from a guy from Georgia.
I live in Ontario, Canada. Average morning temperature in winter is about -20C or 0 F. Have you ever tried to get into a car that cold and start driving? It instantely develops a thick layer of ice on the inside if you breathe. You got to let the inside warm up or you cant see shiat. As not benificial as it might be to idle, its a nessesary morning routine around these parts.:4: |
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| Homer |
quote:
Originally posted by Bambus
:Idling an engine after a 'cold' startup has always been a pet peeve of mine. I absolutely believe that it is very harmful to the engine and unnecessary.
Hey, No disrespect in any way, BUT we are getting Cold Start Idiling tips from a guy from Georgia.
I live in Ontario, Canada. Average morning temperature in winter is about -20C or 0 F. Have you ever tried to get into a car that cold and start driving? It instantely develops a thick layer of ice on the inside if you breathe. You got to let the inside warm up or you cant see shiat. As not benificial as it might be to idle, its a nessesary morning routine around these parts.:4:
Or when its so cold your manual transmission doesn't want to enter gear when its -30 F |
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| Corin |
quote:
Originally posted by Bambus
:Idling an engine after a 'cold' startup has always been a pet peeve of mine. I absolutely believe that it is very harmful to the engine and unnecessary.
Hey, No disrespect in any way, BUT we are getting Cold Start Idiling tips from a guy from Georgia.
I live in Ontario, Canada. Average morning temperature in winter is about -20C or 0 F. Have you ever tried to get into a car that cold and start driving? It instantely develops a thick layer of ice on the inside if you breathe. You got to let the inside warm up or you cant see shiat. As not benificial as it might be to idle, its a nessesary morning routine around these parts.:4:
He said "Cold" startups, not "freakishly-insane-how-can-anyone-live-in-that" sub-freezing startups! :D For that you really need a heated garage. |
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| biggun |
quote:
Originally posted by Bambus
:Idling an engine after a 'cold' startup has always been a pet peeve of mine. I absolutely believe that it is very harmful to the engine and unnecessary.
Hey, No disrespect in any way, BUT we are getting Cold Start Idiling tips from a guy from Georgia.
I live in Ontario, Canada. Average morning temperature in winter is about -20C or 0 F. Have you ever tried to get into a car that cold and start driving? It instantely develops a thick layer of ice on the inside if you breathe. You got to let the inside warm up or you cant see shiat. As not benificial as it might be to idle, its a nessesary morning routine around these parts.:4:
I agree. Although it does not get that cold in Boston area, there is a big difference between our winter temp and Georgia's. In the summer, I do not idle the MO because I feel is not necessary. |
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