| dmako |
There has been discussions in the past around removing the center muffler for clearance and better sound.
I was wondering if replacing it with say a straight glass pack type muffler vs. a pipe would work better?
You would, I think get more clearance, and the sound might be better than a ‘rapping’ sound with a straight pipe. |
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| Eric L. |
I do not believe you will get "better" sound by removing the center resonator. In fact, its there to keep the engine quiet, and its "offset" from the body there to prevent vibration. Fitting a straight pipe might give you what other VQ owners have experienced when going with a straight pipe without a freer flowing exhaust - a "bees in a can sound."
Your idea of replacing it with a glass filled straight pipe style muffler is a pretty good idea. If you go for it, please keep us updated of the results! |
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| Tyler_Canada |
| What about using a resonator from the G35 coupe? It's supposed to be freer flowing than even the one on the sedan, which is probably still better than the one on the Murano. |
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| CopperKat |
| Wouldn't doing this affect your warranty? |
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| Eric L. |
| Yes it would affect the warranty. Its a do so at your own risk modification. |
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| Tyler_Canada |
| It should only affect the warranty on the exhaust. For anything else they would have to prove that it was the source of the problem. |
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| Eric L. |
| Actually since most of the engine management system is based on intake/exhaust, the sneaky Nissan dealer could refuse any work on any engine issue. It wouldn't surprise me. |
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| dmako |
This warranty voiding is sure something.
If I replace my Goodyears, will I lose my warranty :D
Yet dealers like Grubbs seem to push performance parts for the FX like exhaust, intakes, etc that are 3rd party. |
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| Halo |
This gets to the heart of the issue as it comes to car modifications. Replacing the center muffler would in theory only void warranty claims as they pertain to the part of the car that was modified.
However, in practice, suppose an aftermarket resonator increased horsepower, or reduced backpressure (as claimed by the manufacturer). Nissan could deny a warranty claim on the CVT claiming that the change in the torque curve caused uneccesary wear and the CVT is not defective. Remember, it's not the dealer, but NISSAN USA who pays the warranty claim. The dealer just does the work.
Different car companies have slightly different policies as far as modding goes. When warranty claims get complex because of mods, they are usually handled by the manufacturer on a case by case basis. This makes sense because the manufacturer is weighing the benefit of denying your claim ($ savings) with the cost ($ lost in losing a repeat customer).
As far as who has to prove what. It plays out like this... you take your MO with aftermarket intake/exhaust to the dealer for a CVT failure. The dealer contacts NISSAN USA for a claim who refuses it because the car is modified. You could negotiate with NISSAN, pay the repair yourself or take NISSAN to court to make them prove that the part was not defective. |
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| Eric L. |
| The last post is wonderfully correct. Don't expect the dealer to bend over backwards to help you on your warranty. Any modification is do so at your own risk. |
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| Tyler_Canada |
| I'm not overly worried anyway. By the time there are aftermarket parts available, my warranty will already be over. |
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| GMTURBO43 |
| I'd be curious to see the G35 resonator compared to the Murano's. I'd like to think there wouldn't be much difference visibly - in which case - would the dealer really be able to notice if it wasn't a hackjob? Not that I want to encourage screwing the system or anything ;) |
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| Tyler_Canada |
| I've heard (in the G35 forum on FA) that the coupe resonator has better flow than the sedan resonator. I would suspect that the sedan resonator might be the same part that's on the Murano. If the coupe resonator looked the same, I would try to pull it off. |
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| dmako |
They take the fun out of everything.
I'd hate to have work turned down due to something I did, and since it's not a bolt on mod, I won't try it.
The G35 coupe resonator sounds interesting, perhaps someone will try this. |
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| Tyler_Canada |
| I just checked, the coupe resonator is a lot smaller than the sedan one. So it won't be unnoticeable to the dealer, but it should at least fit. |
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| eager |
Let's see dealers make money on warrantee work.
Unless you were repeatedly dropping CVTs I doubt they would make much issue of a modified exhaust. |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by eager
Let's see dealers make money on warrantee work.
Unless you were repeatedly dropping CVTs I doubt they would make much issue of a modified exhaust.
Nissan's warranty rate is a fraction of the dealer's "boat payment" rate to non warranty customers. For example, lets say replacing the CVT costs Nissan $3000. They might pay the dealer $3500 for the repair. If you had to pay out of pocket, you might have to pay the dealer twice that much, $7000. Now if you were the dealer and you could find an excuse to charge more, wouldn't you? |
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| Halo |
Listen to Eric folks, he knows of what he speaks.
The dealer has little to gain by having the factory pay for a warranty claim. I know the marketing makes it seem like they're on your side, but this is not the case.
Look, I'm not suggesting that swapping out a muffler will void the warranty on the car. All I'm saying is that if you mod the car and the factory refuses a claim the dealer is not on your side. |
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| Julio Bro! |
quote:
Originally posted by Tyler_Canada
What about using a resonator from the G35 coupe? It's supposed to be freer flowing than even the one on the sedan, which is probably still better than the one on the Murano.
My Dad has a 2004 Murano and my wife is planning to get one too; that muffler/resonator has me intrigued. It seems to be a full muffler, just because of the size; resonators are usually smaller. As such I suppose it brings some power loss and weight, I think it's used to make the vehicle real quiet, luxury like.
Swapping it with a G35 resonator seems a good idea, but you'll have to check it inside. The 240SX resonator is just 1 inch of internal diameter and, even though it's a straight tube, this is restrictive. This type of resonator doesn't change tone as much as it changes volume; it can reduce 3 or 4 decibels of the final sound and it does absorb some vibration.
Using a glasspack type instead will provide for more power, but it will increase the volume of the sound...maybe not much, and also probably will bring some vibration to the system too.
Maybe a better option would be to use something like Dynomax's Ultra-Flo or Super Turbo mufflers. These can be chosen to be the same size and configuration as the one mounted in the Murano and surely will bring more power to the system, without so much an increase in sound and vibration, particularly with the Super Turbo. Also, if installed with the word Dynomax towards the vehicle, maybe technicians won't notice the difference eh.
I don't think the increase in torque will bring trouble with the CVT, the torque-converter is still there to dampen things a bit and, what I've read about the technology, it seems to be quite strong. |
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| Tyler_Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Julio Bro!
Swapping it with a G35 resonator seems a good idea, but you'll have to check it inside. The 240SX resonator is just 1 inch of internal diameter and, even though it's a straight tube, this is restrictive. This type of resonator doesn't change tone as much as it changes volume; it can reduce 3 or 4 decibels of the final sound and it does absorb some vibration.
Actually, given that the 240 uses a 2.4L engine, it would make sense to have a smaller diameter exhaust. Given that the G35 uses the same 3.5L engine as the Murano, and has more horsepower and torque, using the resonator from it could not possibly reduce power in any way.
quote:
Originally posted by Julio Bro!
I don't think the increase in torque will bring trouble with the CVT, the torque-converter is still there to dampen things a bit and, what I've read about the technology, it seems to be quite strong.
Actually, torque converters multiply torque. When unlocked, a torque converter will increase torque, but reduce horsepower because of the slip. I still think the CVT can handle a bit more than the stock engine gives. They wouldn't leave no margin!
Already I've been using the pop charger for close to 6,000 miles, and I haven't had a single problem. And I only have 22,000 miles left of my warranty anyway. I think I'm going to wait until next summer, and see what cat-back exhaust options are available. |
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| Julio Bro! |
What I meant mentioning the 240SX resonator is that the G35 resonator could be of a very small diameter inside than the rest of it's own system, which will be restrictive.
In the case of the 240SX, the system's diam. is 2.25", but the resonator is 1". |
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| Tyler_Canada |
| Ahh, I see. That sounds rather silly that they would do that. Oh well, a good muffler would probably be the best replacement. |
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| SIM |
Warranty voiding or not is a technician issue. If the mechanic is a friend (as is mine), then you can pretty much do anything you wish to your car and it will never void your warranty. My friend is even indicating a lower milleage on the WO so it all goes from there.
I remember having *heavily* modded my 300TT (even in my Nissan dealership) and as I used to be a car enthousiast & journalist, would let it sleep in the Nissan Canada garage when I was road testing their cars. Their mechanics were just amazed how efficient Steve Millen stages were. Everything was still on warranty for all the time I kept the car, years after visiting them. |
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| zebelkhan |
| Where can we find a friend at a Nissan dealership??? |
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| Julio Bro! |
quote:
Originally posted by Tyler_Canada
Ahh, I see. That sounds rather silly that they would do that. Oh well, a good muffler would probably be the best replacement.
Many silly things are done in the name of comfort, reliability, versatility, and ECONOMY. Now, thinking about the G35, this engine is one of the best engines ever produced by Nissan and it's very powerful. A reduced diameter in the resonator takes how many horsepower...5, 8, 10 maybe? I don't think they care much about that; they're aiming at a nice sporty and quiet tone, without vibration.
In the Murano's case, they probably want quieter...even though, why use such a big pre-muffler? Maybe they saw the space and took advantage, using a pre-existing design instead of doing a new one, and saving a few bucks in the process. Silly? Yes, but like I said... |
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| hfelknor |
I just have a funny feeling that they had hit the wall on the deadline and had almost all of the dies on the line completed, and were about to turn on production when somebody put a Sound Level meter behind the thing and said "Ah Sh!T".........uh no, they are japanese, so the guy said "Ah So! Too Roud!"
What to do? We've already announced delivery!
"Let's weld on one of those Sentra Pre Mufflers from last year and order about 50,000 more of them."
Just the way it DOESN'T fit, tells me that it was an afterthought. Probably to meet somebody's sound level limit.
It was probably too roud, I mean too loud for California Sound levels or some such.
If it was NOT an afterthought and this is a Nissan "designed' exhaust system, then we need to back off our bragging about fine Japanese engineering.
This is a Kluge.
Homer:1: |
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| b0xdesigns |
| I took mine out...and am very happy with it....but i did make a couple more modifications...:2: |
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| Julio Bro! |
| And how does it sounds b0xdesigns? Any vibrations or "not so good" feelings? |
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| b0xdesigns |
It sounds great and feels even better....Pretty much like a stock 350z or g35c and fx..... The only vibrations i feel are from the intake. I tried it with the tock airbox after my exhaust mods....And its pretty quiet and smooth inside still..But you can tell the diifrence in power with the airbox on...
I have a couple sound clips...if anyones willing to host them...PM me.... |
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| Snow MO |
| B0x- I will put your clips back up, but last week I transferred domains and it didn't go as smooth as planned. They will hopefully be up again shortly... |
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| TOXIC |
Has any Murano owners noticed that the center muffler has a curved bottom leading edge? These mufflers are also stainless I believe.
Thanks, :) |
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| Nissmo |
$35 later. Sightly raspy exhaust note,very slight.
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| TOXIC |
quote:
Originally posted by Nissmo
$35 later. Sightly raspy exhaust note,very slight.
Hi Nissmo,
Did you notice on the muffler that you removed if it had a bottom leading edge that was curved inwards so as to deflect any object that may come in contact with the muffler? I am interested to know.
Thanks,
TOXIC :) |
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| njjoe |
Toxic-
I took a look at my center muffler earlier today and it does NOT have an inward-curved bottom leading edge.
If yours is curved, maybe you hit something?
-njjoe |
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| TOXIC |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
Toxic-
I took a look at my center muffler earlier today and it does NOT have an inward-curved bottom leading edge.
If yours is curved, maybe you hit something?
-njjoe
Hi njjoe,
Why I asked the question, is that your suggestion entered my mind at the time when I noticed the curved edge but when I had a closer look and felt the edge of the muffler it did not have a rough or scored surface. This made me believe that it was made like this perhaps due to earlier cars having issues with the relatively low muffler catching on things. I seems to make sense as with the shape it would deflect an item downwards and away from the muffler. Hopefully others might have a look and see. It may also depend on production date? Thanks again for your speedy reply.
TOXIC :) |
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| njjoe |
Toxic,
My car has a June '05 build date.
The 2005 Service Manual also does NOT show the curved edge on the muffler.
Yours may reflect a modification made on the '06 models.
-njjoe |
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| Nissmo |
quote:
Originally posted by TOXIC
Hi Nissmo,
Did you notice on the muffler that you removed if it had a bottom leading edge that was curved inwards so as to deflect any object that may come in contact with the muffler? I am interested to know.
Thanks,
TOXIC :)
Sorry no idea. It is long gone. |
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| TOXIC |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
Toxic,
My car has a June '05 build date.
The 2005 Service Manual also does NOT show the curved edge on the muffler.
Yours may reflect a modification made on the '06 models.
-njjoe
Hi njjoe,
As a matter of interest I have included an image to show what I mean. The darker image gives better contrast shading so as to see the curve better.
TOXIC |
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| njjoe |
Toxic,
Nice pic. That looks like a "hit" to me. Your best bet is to take a look at another 2006, but I think you'll most likely see that it is the same as the pre-2006 model - flat without the curved front-edge.
-njjoe |
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| njjoe |
Toxic-
I have attached an excellent photo (courtesy of Enforcer) showing the underside of a 2003 MO. The muffler is identical to the muffler on my 2005 MO.
-njjoe |
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| TOXIC |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
Toxic,
Nice pic. That looks like a "hit" to me. Your best bet is to take a look at another 2006, but I think you'll most likely see that it is the same as the pre-2006 model - flat without the curved front-edge.
-njjoe
Hi njjoe,
Thanks again for your prompt reply. The muffler in your photo is a different size to the one on my car. The muffler on the US vehicle is definately wider and longer with a shallower profile than the type on mine. Even the heat shield on mine is smaller and a different shape than on your US MO. Because there is no obvious scratching, crumpling and/or damage to the bottom and front lip of the muffler leads me to believe that the lip has been manufactured that way. I will include another pic at a different angle. Perhaps only the AU MO has this muffler. I will make more enquiries this side.
TOXIC |
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| mgthe3 |
In your pics, your muffler is way different Toxic.
Is there a tiny hole below that drop in the seam? (condensate drip hole)
It looks more narrow width wise, yet taller in cross section. Or it could just be narrow, having the diameter of the pipe give an optical illusion of the muffler being taller. I'll caliper mine this evening when I get home and give you the height at center.
I think it is also formed that way from the factory as you suggest.
The dimpling shown in the high contrast photo appears to come from the muffler/pipe assembly being bent a little at the factory right after the pipe was welded to the muffler.
I have seen mufflers look like that---sort of---after a series of backfires, and I KNOW the Mo hasn't done that. It was usually mechanical point ignitions that did that when the points would stick.
Being that the dimpling goes in on one side and out on the other, it does appear to have been tweeked at the factory while hot. You can see in the lighter pic that it hasn't contacted anything. |
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| Nissmo |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
Toxic-
I have attached an excellent photo (courtesy of Enforcer) showing the underside of a 2003 MO. The muffler is identical to the muffler on my 2005 MO.
-njjoe
Just take it out--You won't miss it. |
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| Eric L. |
| I wouldn't worry about the different muffler on the Aussie version MO. The bulge on it does look like it was the result of an impact, but something that hangs that low was meant to hit a few things now and then. Most likely Nissan went with a different supplier because parts were limited, or they wanted to tune the exhaust noise levels for a different market. |
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| mgthe3 |
And what Eric said Waaaaaay up there in the beginning, a glasspack straight through would be perfect, some even have the perfect angles of the inlet and outlet to match the pipes.
Like: |
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| njjoe |
mgthe3-
I like the idea of a slimmer diameter glass-pack muffler. Do you know if they make them in stainless steel (for longevity)?
-njjoe |
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| zebelkhan |
| It looks like a hit to me too. Perhaps a "forklift" of some sort was used to pick-up the car during shipping, or loading/unloading from the carrier truck. |
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| dmako |
Looks like my idea is comming around.
LOL
So who's going to try? |
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| Nissmo |
Trust me here the sound level and tone difference with and without the muffler is virtually nill.
I know if I rode in one with and one without I could not pick out the one without if the rides were 5 min appart.
If you put anything in the stock muffler's place it will be quieter than stock assuming you leave the rears alone. |
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| mgthe3 |
I'm sorry dmako, that WAS your first post up there suggesting that.
:4:
njjoe--I think stainless is a tad overkill. I bet the areas of the welds would rust out far in advance of a cherry bomb's paint.
Yes Nsmo, your simple approach was nice. You said a tad raspy huh?
Hence my second on a cherry bomb, absolutely no restriction and painted for the salt runners.
We have no salt down here. :D |
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| dmako |
No problem, just shocking seeing it come to life.
quote:
Originally posted by mgthe3
I'm sorry dmako, that WAS your first post up there suggesting that.
:4:
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| zebelkhan |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
I have attached an excellent photo (courtesy of Enforcer) showing the underside of a 2003 MO.
Wow! Just noticed this picture shows the MO on its side long before it actually happened........ |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by zebelkhan
Wow! Just noticed this picture shows the MO on its side long before it actually happened........
zebelkhan-
Enforcer has posted a more recent, more revealing photo of the underside of his MO, but I thought it would be in poor taste to re-post and reference it. :(
This is actually one of the best photos I have seen of the underside of the MO. Enforcer has posted a great set of photos of the underside of his MO in the gallery.
-njjoe |
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| zebelkhan |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
zebelkhan-
Enforcer has posted a more recent, more revealing photo of the underside of his MO, but I thought it would be in poor taste to re-post and reference it. :(
I actually used that picture to reference a CVT scoop......I guess I must have poor taste....but we are all friends, almost family, so I thought Enforcer would be okay with it, and I think he was.....or else...:yodaddy: |
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| HotSamNCheese |
i've been wanting to take the center muffler out for awhile now...
but my friends keep telling me that if i do, i won't pass inspection...
is this true...
btw.. i live in south jersey...
thanks.. |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by HotSamNCheese
i've been wanting to take the center muffler out for awhile now...
but my friends keep telling me that if i do, i won't pass inspection...
is this true...
btw.. i live in south jersey...
thanks..
HotSamNCheese-
I also live in Jersey (Toms River) and am well acquainted with our motor vehicle inspection procedures.
I bought my MO in August '05. It does not need to be inspected until August '09. Depending on how old your MO is, you still have a few years before you even need to visit the inspection station. When you do eventually take your car for inspection they are not concerned so much about the sound level as they are about leaks in the system. There should be no reason for the inspectors to fail your MO if the modification is done correctly.
Now having said that, the removal of the center muffler has minimal impact on the sound volume of the MO. The sound quality changes, but not the volume.
Go for it.
-njjoe |
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