| esemes |
welp, im done with the unofficial stage three of my VQ build....
keeping in mind, i am using all stock internals on the motor, for now, as i am only running approx 9lbs of boost (have potential plans to build the block, and rods, but nowhere/time soon)
i have the crawford plenum, hi-flow ctas, fujitsubo Y pipe and exhaust. For added safety, i changed out the thermo to the nsimo L/T version, and upgraded the hoses to the Samco sport edition....
to help get the power a-flowin, i chose the non-tuner edition of the intercooled vortech supercharger, and have since upgraded the boost pulley to get the 9lb output.....
on order in the JWT lightweight flywheel and clutchpack, to help get a quicker boost spool-up (and help dimish driveline loss). the flywheel weighs only 14 lbs, versus the oem 30+lb unit...
heres the latest re-tune i had done, keeping the a/f in the 11.25:1 range (oversafe, but a neccesity in FL heat and humidity)
wanted to share what the MO motor possibility is, although the tranny would need considerations as well im afraid...
these numbers are dynojet values, SAE corrected, and performed in 98°F temp and 52% relative humidity.....as measured at the rear wheels (add 17% back ontop of them for true crank output values)
enjoy! (i know i sure am)!!!
-eS |
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| esemes |
| 4.5" TAILPIPES, WITH 3" MIDPIPE, AND TWIN 63MM "Y" PIPE |
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| j a y |
| :18: all i can say is wow... nice work on the G35.. that must be nice to have 400 rwhp.. any soundclips? i would love to hear what that bad boy sounds.. great job.. |
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| GMTURBO43 |
Those are some impressive numbers.
what are you doing for the ECM? Did you go stand alone or is there an aftermarket plug 'n play type of deal? |
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| KSmurano |
es - that is too cool! :cool: :cool: :cool:
What is the G35 base line numbers on HP & Ft Lbs?
About how many C-notes did that set you back? |
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| esemes |
quote:
Originally posted by GMTURBO43
Those are some impressive numbers.
what are you doing for the ECM? Did you go stand alone or is there an aftermarket plug 'n play type of deal?
i have the splitsecond ecu piggy back unit (has fuel and ignition tables) to help add/subtract timing and keep the fueling appropriate....
it works very well in conjunction with the aux. fuelpump (to add fuel in the amount of 100psi at max boost)
-eS
the 3.5 l puts down about 235rwhp stock, with driveline losses.... |
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| esemes |
the g35 coupe is rated (crank) at 280HP and 270 lb-ft TQ per infiniti's claims....
we've backed this up on the dynos, with oem cars netting exactly 234± rwhp (confirming the near 17% driveline loss, even with the oem Carbon Fiber re-inforced driveshaft!)
as far as pricing, well, it hasnt been cheap (nor will i be in the future, but im sure anyone who knows the bus. understands that....the blower kit alone lists for 5999)
i had ALL the non-tuning work done at my dealership, as they now offer performance upgrades and are very mod-friendly....
the watrranty is still intact, with a few stipulations of course
i sure wish the cvt would take the upgrqades..... imagine even having 300rwhp in the sleek looking MO...... (making a good thing even better, IMO) |
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| Dookie |
I'm getting ready to FI my 2002 Lancer. All said and done, I should be pushing about 250whp w/stock internals. After I get bored with this set-up, I'm sure I will be changing out the connecting rods and piston heads, in which I will try to run 18 psi of boost with a thicker headgasket and of course stronger head bolts.
Good job with your car. I would get one but the Lancer is paid off and is my toy to tinker with. If I blow the motor up, it wouldn't be no big deal because I will just build it to suit high boost.
Did you install the kit yourself? How much is everything costing? |
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| Kris |
esemes,
impresive indeed. Now I know why you got rid of the MO.......but why not FX?.
Now, if only CVT could take the additional HP's........ |
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| SugarRushMurano |
quote:
I have my 2 processors xeon workstation in the office to work with heavy duty modelings and analysis. This laptop is just purely for things i mentioned above and not going to be my only pc.
Now what we need is someone in this forum who are 'brave' enough to do a swap on the factory cvt to conventional automatic. I know by switching to automatic will more like a a 'downgrade' for most of use. But if you want Esemes has in his G35, some sacrifice need to be made :p |
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| Tyler_Canada |
| If I haven't traded my Murano by the time it's paid off, I'll probably switch to an Auto. I can't stand to leave things alone, and I always want more power. Eventually I'd probably swap to Auto and go with a custom turbo setup. Do the Auto Muranos come with a 4 speed or 5 speed? |
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| jaak |
The Murano's computer limits acceleration off the line, and once you're moving, I have no doubts that the CVT can handle the HP. So if you can afford to drop the cash for the engine power upgrades, then buying a new CVT every year or so, shouldn't be a big deal.
Just do it! The Murano would kick on the highway... |
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| esemes |
quote:
Originally posted by jaak
The Murano's computer limits acceleration off the line, and once you're moving, I have no doubts that the CVT can handle the HP. So if you can afford to drop the cash for the engine power upgrades, then buying a new CVT every year or so, shouldn't be a big deal.
Just do it! The Murano would kick on the highway...
i wonder if you could fool the ecu then, or have the limiter raised (reflashed) to allow more oooomph......... is it a speed sensor?? ifso, that'd prolly be easy.....(well, not for me that is) |
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| Kris |
quote:
Originally posted by Tyler_Canada
If I haven't traded my Murano by the time it's paid off, I'll probably switch to an Auto. I can't stand to leave things alone, and I always want more power. Eventually I'd probably swap to Auto and go with a custom turbo setup. Do the Auto Muranos come with a 4 speed or 5 speed?
The one I've seen in South America were 4 speed auto |
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| Halo |
| esemes, you're running 9lb of boost with the stock injectors? |
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| esemes |
quote:
Originally posted by Halo
esemes, you're running 9lb of boost with the stock injectors?
approx 9lbs at revv limiter.... the injectors havent reached 100% duty either (additional fuel pump is good for even more , if wanted)....
i have a little more improvemnt in mind, and the walbro 190lph main pump, with 1 step larger injectors is in the works.... (looking for about 20-35 more rwhp) |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by jaak
The Murano's computer limits acceleration off the line, and once you're moving, I have no doubts that the CVT can handle the HP. So if you can afford to drop the cash for the engine power upgrades, then buying a new CVT every year or so, shouldn't be a big deal.
Just do it! The Murano would kick on the highway...
Where did you read that the CVT can handle more power? I have read that the CVT in the Murano has been tuned to deliver a certain lifespan on its metal belt (the less stress, the longer the belt will last) - thus it appears the beltstrength is the limiting factor in CVT durability. So, lets say with the stock power, it is rated to go 150,000-200,000 miles, a reasonable life of a vehicle. Increasing engine power via forced induction will most likely significantly shorten belt life.
I for one do not believe it is worth modding the Murano's engine for more power until a solution for the CVT exists, and handling mods are available on the aftermarket. As is, I think the handling with the SE suspension is adequate for the power the engine makes. |
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| mgarciah |
| Ok, mine MO has automatic 4 speed, what should I do to increase my HPs... |
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| jaak |
Can the CVT handle more power? Yes, but the question is for how long...
Perhaps some remember reading Enforcer's website and the info he managed to obtain on the CVT.
I highly recommend you look at the full page, but here's an excerpt.
quote:
Q: The max belt tension is 500Nm and the engine currently produces 350Nm+. So if engine modifications are performed that increase the power output, does this effectively result in a shorter lifetime of the belt?
A: The belt is designed based on a certain load collective. In case you increase the power output of the engine and actually use this extra power a lot, you will change the load collective and consequently change the life time of the belt.
Q: And I doubt it is this simple, but does it mean the CVT is capable of something less than 500Nm? IE the margin on the CVT is 150NM?
A: The CVT is capable of a lot more but it is a trade off between lifetime and torque capacity. We have even put it in a Formula one vehicle that was tested by David Coulthard in 1993. The belt lasted about two races. The CVT system was however not allowed to be used in the race. At this moment the 350 Nm is kind of a maximum torque capacity for commercial available vehicles of which your Murano is a nice example. We are working to increase this number. The reason why it must be able to handle 500+ Nm is that the Murano has got a torque converter that is able to amplify the engine torque to these levels. The time share of this event in the load collective is however small. The 350 Nm does outnumber the chain that is used by Audi (maximum 310 Nm and no torque converter so no torque amplification).
Q: How does one derive the predicted lifetime of the belt if a constant 350Nm is applied? Am very interested in this one as I am preparing to tow a trailer right at the 3500lb TOW rating of the Murano for 700 miles in one day.
A: Unfortunately there is no simple formula for this one. It depends on a lot of factors. In case you stay within the margins described in your manual you are safe.
Q: Am I correct in assuming that the CVT is designed such that the belt does not slip with respect to the pulleys?
A: Technically speaking the belt always slips because of the tribological nature of the contact between belt and pulley. We call this microslip. In case it becomes macroslip it becomes a problem and damage can occur. The pressure force is controlled in a way that macroslip can not occur by using a certain safety factor. (A nice paper on this subject is SAE paper number 980822 from Nissan, available at www.sae.org)
Q: Am I correct in assuming the CVT controllers are designed to prevent jerk? In other words, what holds the belt in place is static friction which means the CVT can handle velocity and acceleration but not jerk which might overcome the static friction force and cause the belt to slip with the resulting dynamic friction, heat buildup and materiel weakening/loss?
A: The controllers are designed to handle jerk coming from the engine side. Jerk coming form the road side is handled by the clamping safety (see above).
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| Eric L. |
In reply to jaak's post - yes that was the reference I was talking about regarding the tradeoff between belt life and how much power it can handle.
I suppose it would be possible to mod the gills out of the VQ in the Murano, but it would kind of defeat the purpose of a $35,000 crossover and turn the CVT into a ticking time bomb. On a G35c I can understand, as its basically a civilized 350ZX.
But to each their own. If someone does do this, it would be very interesting read on this forum! |
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| jaak |
I agree with you Eric, it would be a fun experiment but not practical. After all, if I was looking to go fast, I'd start with something that's got more displacement...
However, if you have more than 6 Grand to throw at engine mods, what's a tranny every year or so... |
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| esemes |
quote:
Originally posted by jaak
I agree with you Eric, it would be a fun experiment but not practical. After all, if I was looking to go fast, I'd start with something that's got more displacement...
However, if you have more than 6 Grand to throw at engine mods, what's a tranny every year or so...
well, the theory of "no replacement for displacement" is antiquated thinking these days.... (unless you like pushrod ironblock motors, in truck-like chassis).... i prefer cutting edge styling, with crisp handling....
the G is more than refined Z... it has a higher skidpad rating too (8" longer, 200lbs heavier, and shod with much better tread, wi the 18" package), comes oem with a LSD, VDC, traction control, and is only about .1-.25 sec slower 0-60 times, per oem setup..
im not sure if you noticed above, but im making very good power, and at a safe a/f, with the similar motor in the MO...
as far as "practical" goes, thats purely a matter of opinion, i believe....
guess the idea of modding the VQ is unwelcomed here.....
members:: please return to regular programming
mods:: please delete this thread please...
eS out |
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| jaak |
Are you kidding? I guess I've not said enough about how I feel... I think your ride is stinkin' hot.
It depends what you want to do, drive fast, or get shot off the line quick. Personally I'd love a G done like yours, as it would rock!
But if all you want is HP, all factors being equal (e.g. engine design) then bigger is better.
The VQ's a hot place to start and if you want light weight, good handling and lot's of vroom, I think you've got it nailed pretty good!
I believe someone who wants to make a fast Murano could do it to, just don't expect the transmission to last as long. But I'd love to see what the CVT's like, before it smokes...
So what's a new tranny once a year, for someone who's really into it? I used to rebuild my bike every winter. Ya wanna go fast? Then it can get expensive. But it's a lot of fun! |
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| Kris |
I agree with jaak. There is no way I would delete this thread! I love your mods, Scott................keep them coming!
I just wish I could do it to the FX.............. |
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| Tyler_Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by jaak
So what's a new tranny once a year, for someone who's really into it? I used to rebuild my bike every winter. Ya wanna go fast? Then it can get expensive. But it's a lot of fun!
quote:
Speed costs... how fast do you want to go?
If I do decide I'm willing to put an auto in my Murano, I would just upgrade the h3ll out of the engine first, and when the tranny goes I would get the auto.
Regarding "no replacement for displacement", check out this quote from Nissan Performance Magazine:
quote:
The turbocharger or turbo for short is what enables Lisa Kubo’s, Steff Papadakis and Ed Berganhotlz 4 cylinder motors to generate over 1100 hp from only about 2000cc of displacement. That is only 121 cubic inches for you metrically impaired people. To put this into perspective, if a 350 Chevy could generate the same power per cubic inch, it would have over 3200 hp! I can't think of too many small block Chevys or Fords that can do that.
Full article here: http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/july04/nerds/ |
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| jaak |
Well that's the key, comparing a Chevy engineered and manufactured product against the Nissan one isn't a fair comparison.
A turbo'd or supercharged large capacity Nissan would rock. Take the VQ and make it a v12 with a turbo, same bore and stroke, and then go racing... WOoo HOOoooooooo.....
Even taking it to an 8 or 10 would be fun.
As far as reliability of the tranny, I was thinking about the concerns here and really, supercharging the VQ will shorten the engine's life, as well as the life of the auto transmission. The CVT is the same thing, but just the wrong side of the "OK to do" line, in that you don't have as much confidence as to when you'll fry it, or explode it. But the same damage could be done to the stock auto trans as well.
I agree, speed costs, how fast do you want to go?
I've had a hard time taking anything seriously on four wheels that couldn't acheive 0-60 mph in more than 4 seconds... It was conditioning from what I used to drive. I used to blow the doors off people in cars that thought they were fast, pretty consistantly.
Fun costs money, but it's still worth it, if you've not done it before!! |
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| esemes |
quote:
Originally posted by Kris
I agree with jaak. There is no way I would delete this thread! I love your mods, Scott................keep them coming!
I just wish I could do it to the FX..............
sorry guys, if i came off wrong...
i just am trying to help a very lacking section of this well-rounded forum, with ANY related stuff i can dig up.....
now, for the fx35, theres: the stillen blower (with or with intercooling), na d the ATI procharger (intercooled)..
both fit undrhood, without modification to it (hood that is)
es
check out the link i found for getting a heatshield on the jwt popcharger (the MO versions comes without) |
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| Tyler_Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by jaak
A turbo'd or supercharged large capacity Nissan would rock. Take the VQ and make it a v12 with a turbo, same bore and stroke, and then go racing... WOoo HOOoooooooo.....
I've had a hard time taking anything seriously on four wheels that couldn't acheive 0-60 mph in more than 4 seconds... It was conditioning from what I used to drive. I used to blow the doors off people in cars that thought they were fast, pretty consistantly.
Come on Jaak, I know you want a 4 second Murano, but REALLY!
I agree though. Take all the nice technology from the VQ and put it in a large displacement, then turbo it.... where's that drooling smiley again? :D
So what's the thrust-weight ratio for a 4 second bike? |
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| jaak |
Well it was a while back, that I had that, so I'm sure my mind has reajusted... Still, I would almost think where I wanted to be in traffic and be there, with that crotch rocket.
I remember at one point getting a little bored with people that would want to run off a light and I started doing things like putting my hands on my helmet and not taking them off until the light was actually green. (No anticipation) The challenge was to be across the intersection, before they were and I usually did it.
Ahhh.... The young, crazy, stupid days... Lot of fun. I'm older now and not as stupid. Crazy? Hmm...
Ratio? Well, let's see... The bike was around 400 lbs, I was around 155 and I'd estimate the HP to be around 110. So around 5 to 1 weight to power. How much HP do we need in the Murano to get there... :eek: |
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| esemes |
quote:
Originally posted by jaak
Well it was a while back, that I had that, so I'm sure my mind has reajusted... Still, I would almost think where I wanted to be in traffic and be there, with that crotch rocket.
I remember at one point getting a little bored with people that would want to run off a light and I started doing things like putting my hands on my helmet and not taking them off until the light was actually green. (No anticipation) The challenge was to be across the intersection, before they were and I usually did it.
Ahhh.... The young, crazy, stupid days... Lot of fun. I'm older now and not as stupid. Crazy? Hmm...
Ratio? Well, let's see... The bike was around 400 lbs, I was around 155 and I'd estimate the HP to be around 110. So around 5 to 1 weight to power. How much HP do we need in the Murano to get there... :eek:
didnt know you liked bikes too.... i sold my 2002 gsxr (heavily modded) a few months back.... the last dyno i had done laid down 168.8 rwhp (corrected) and i was able to shave the bikes weight to 343 pounds, without fuel.... now that, coupled with ohlins suspension abound, was the pinnacle of performance, imo..... (could do over 90 in 1st) |
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| senza |
| Keep those VQ mods coming....we all like to dream... |
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| jaak |
quote:
Originally posted by esemes
didnt know you liked bikes too.... i sold my 2002 gsxr (heavily modded) a few months back.... the last dyno i had done laid down 168.8 rwhp (corrected) and i was able to shave the bikes weight to 343 pounds, without fuel.... now that, coupled with ohlins suspension abound, was the pinnacle of performance, imo..... (could do over 90 in 1st)
I'm just getting a uh, something, thinking about it!
Sigh, I missed so much... Mine was in the Seventies, when I had 7 Kawasaki triples... Went fast, not as fast as yours, and handled like a flexi flyer, but still a beautiful thing. My dream bike was an RD500, as it truly was the closest to a race bike and I love two strokes...
What's nice about your Suzuki, is if you crash with that, you just get vaporised...:D |
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| hfelknor |
Well, mine was a 73.
It was known as "The white One" or "The Killer".
I was living in Huntington Beach at the time.
It was known as the Killer because all the rich kids would go down and try to get Daddy to spring for a Honda 750.
Dad would reluctantly go look but he was scared that Junior was gonna die on the damn thing.
So Junior would then take him to the Kawa dealer and show Dad a possible compromise that was "only" 500cc.
I bot one of those before it killed the kid.
Too much motor that came on too fast on a bike with a rubber frame and no brakes. Other than that, what was not to like?
Paid $300 for it in 1975. Gave it away in Texas in 1980. Too damn hot to ride there.
The bike was dirty when I bot it and I picked it up on a Sunday and had to go on the road on a Monday.
When I got back, my darling little wife had DETAILED the thing.
It was Gorgeous. She even used a tooth brush and toothPICKS to clean it. Wow!
I took it out for my first drive.
I t was a little loggy off the line, but as you rolled more RPMs on it started to come alive.
Finally I just rolled the throttle over...........OHMYGOD!
It just about jumped out from underneath me.
I c o u l d n o t get the throttle back off!!!!
I was at the end of the seat with my cheeks attempting to grasp the last inch of leather. I am short so I was totally stretched out with just my my finger tips holding the throttle wide open and I just COULD NOT back off the throttle.....
Eventually it flattened out (with a little guy with big eyes still hanging on) and I was able to roll the throttle forward.
IF it had had valves, it would have bent the stems.
It had been my very first 90 MPH wheelie.
I went home at a much reduced pace.
I walked into the house with my legs and everything else still trembling............
I told my wife that we were going to have to rough up the leather on the seat and get a sissy bar, as I had damn near exited out the back..........
That's when she sheepishly told me that she had Armour All'd the seat!
You don't want to EVER do that.:eek:
It was one scary MFer.
But in one way it was the safest bike I ever owned.
Because I knew who was Boss, I didn't try tooooo many silly things on it.
Homer |
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| jaak |
Oh yeah, that's a Kawi H1 if I ever heard of it... And it would eat Honda 750's for lunch. The H2 750 just left them standing still.
Mine had dual discs on the front. Change the master cylinder turn the forks around to put the calipers closer to the steering axis and slap on another disc...
I know about the seat thing too. A "buddy" of mine did me a favour and sprayed on some protective coating that had silicone it, or something. I get on the highway and gas it at around 70 mph. The next thing I know, my behind is almost on the taillight and I'm holding the bars with only my fingertips. And of course, the throttle is still open, so I'm still accelerating.
Well after almost soiling my pants, I walked my fingers up the grips until I could hold on and back off the throttle.
Have to admit, I did get rather fond of the high speed wheelies though.
Ahh.... Back in the days when all I wore a helmet for, was so I'd still look good in the casket. :eek:
Of course, one of my favourite folks was Yvon Duhamel who raced the H2R. It's no co-inicidence that my wedding aniversary is on the 17th of September. I knew I'd never forget that number.
Yvon's son Miguel Duhamel, now races... |
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