| crew219 |
Yes i've done a search ;) . . . . i'd just like some input.
Of course i'll be test driving both back to back sometime during next week, but i am looking at getting a SE or an SL Platinum / Charcoal/ AWD / Touring Mo
My two main concerns are:
DSL vs 6 gear shift
SL suspension vs Stiffer SE suspension
After reading many posts it seems like DSL is the better system. I would probably never use "L" but most likely i'd shift into S all the time when braking before taking a turn (where i normally downshift to power out of a turn). "S" seems to put the RPMs right at 4k and hold them there which to me seems like exactly where you want to be, whereas with a 6 speed shift I'd be varying the rpms and changing the power delivery with each shift. The thought of the 6 speed also makes me wonder if it decreases the life of the CVT with use. If you think about it, downshifting with that puts probably more of a greater strain on the belt (probably jumping 1-2k rpm) versus the smaller increase of RPMs in "S" mode. The one place where the six speed might come in handy is in snow conditions where it is beneficial to keep RPMs low to avoid spinning tires. Either way, right now I'm looking at a built up SL instead of an SE so I can get DSL . . . . Opinions please.
Next issue is that I like my suspensions stiff and I like a vehicle that corners very well and responds well. Having a less stiff suspension might be an issue for me and seeing as how there are no aftermarket shock manufacturers out for the Murano, that means I'd have to buy the SE suspension and put it on myself. Is the suspension difference between the two that great? Another thought that crossed my mind was buying some H&Rs and dropping it 1.5"
Another benefit of the SL is that I get the black unpainted lowers which I think look better on Platinum that that grey silver color which kinda matches but really doesn't. Oh and the wheels look better IMHO . . . . i really don't like the "bubbly" look of the 6 spokes (doesn't really matter because I already have a set of wheels in mind)
Its a $700 savings between SL and SE granted that probably translates into a greater savings after negotiation.
Thoughts? What would you choose? |
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| GripperDon |
| I would go for SL and did twice, Let me start off with a very important issure I am sure everyone will agree, The "L" is easier to debadge than the "E", second DSL, Ride, Ride and did I mention Ride. |
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| crew219 |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
I would go for SL and did twice, Let me start off with a very important issure I am sure everyone will agree, The "L" is easier to debadge than the "E", second DSL, Ride, Ride and did I mention Ride.
I'll probably leave the badges on . . . .
Question is . . . . will you go for an SL the THIRD time come next december? :D |
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| GripperDon |
| How about, MB 500 SL ? |
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| Halo |
quote:
Originally posted by crew219
Next issue is that I like my suspensions stiff and I like a vehicle that corners very well and responds well. Having a less stiff suspension might be an issue for me and seeing as how there are no aftermarket shock manufacturers out for the Murano, that means I'd have to buy the SE suspension and put it on myself. Is the suspension difference between the two that great? Another thought that crossed my mind was buying some H&Rs and dropping it 1.5"
The SE definitely rides stiffer. The springs are firmer and the shocks have greater damping. This also translates in to a bit more steering feedback, which is nice. That said, the SE does not handle anywhere near what I would call "responsive" It is a 4000lb FWD platform with a relatively high cg and, not surprisingly, that's how it behaves. Tons of understeer, plenty of torque steer if you mash on the gas, although body roll is pretty well controlled.
I specifically didn't want a soft ride so I went for the SE (no misconceptions about its handling limits though). HIDs were standard, I liked the SE wheels vs. the 5 spoke which I think are somewhat played out. I also like it that I see fewer SE's around. |
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| crew219 |
quote:
Originally posted by Halo
The SE definitely rides stiffer. The springs are firmer and the shocks have greater damping. This also translates in to a bit more steering feedback, which is nice. That said, the SE does not handle anywhere near what I would call "responsive" It is a 4000lb FWD platform with a relatively high cg and, not surprisingly, that's how it behaves. Tons of understeer, plenty of torque steer if you mash on the gas, although body roll is pretty well controlled.
I specifically didn't want a soft ride so I went for the SE (no misconceptions about its handling limits though). HIDs were standard, I liked the SE wheels vs. the 5 spoke which I think are somewhat played out. I also like it that I see fewer SE's around.
5 spokes are played out . . . . but i'll be getting new wheels very shortly after purchase. Whatever stock wheel I have will be relegated to winter use.
What are your thoughts on lowering the Murano? The "Mo" will never see off-road . . . . will only be subject to bad urban driving. I guess the only concern i might have is whacking that CVT air-dam. 1.5" doesn't seem like a lot once you look at how high the Murano already is. Does anyone make swaybars for the Murano?
Dave |
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| GripperDon |
| Lowering the Mo has been done, several spring kits are available. Lowering the roll center is a plus. My concerns were "upsetting the handling" , (no longer in "Center" of suspension travel, stiffer ride, etc. a search will find stuff on this forum. |
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| crew219 |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
Lowering the Mo has been done, several spring kits are available. Lowering the roll center is a plus. My concerns were "upsetting the handling" , (no longer in "Center" of suspension travel, stiffer ride, etc. a search will find stuff on this forum.
:p already searched but it doesn't seem like anyone has actually done it. What I'm quasi worried about is the spring sag that has been mentioned a few times in the rear with stock or SE springs. H&Rs will def take care of that . . .
Granted I should probably wait until they come out with KYB AGX's . . . Its pointless to lower unless I can get an aftermarket shock to go with it. Too bad bilstein doesn't make anything for the murano either. Ideally I would keep stock height but just run higher spring weights in the front and rear on aftermarket shocks (I'm a fan of koni).
Dave |
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| GripperDon |
| Google for Murano Lowering "Kits" |
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| MVTCFP |
quote:
Originally posted by Halo
I also like it that I see fewer SE's around.
Me too.
Crew, get the SL. |
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| Eric L. |
Regarding the RPM change when shifting from D to Ds, its a substantial increase. In Ds, RPM's stay below 1500 off throttle, while Ds maintains RPMs at around 4000. I'm pretty sure thats a higher ratio change than downshifting one "gear" with the SE manual shift feature.
Regarding the ride, I have no problems with the SE ride. I agree with the post above, the SE is not as sporty as Nissan would make you think it is. Since the SL is even softer, I did not consider it. |
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| crew219 |
Well i just got back from the nissan dealership. Spent about 2 hours there bs'ing with bored salesmen and the fleet manager.
Test drove both a 2004 SE and a 2004 SL
From my first impressions . . . . i want the complete opposite. The 6 speed shift was wonderful . . . It still had a CVT feel as there wasn't a noticable "shift-jerk." The RPMs just kinda transitioned into each other gear smoothly. What I liked was that after shifting into "6th" and moving the shifter back to D . . . when I moved it back into the shift position at around 75mph, it went into "5th" gear with the RPMs higher up so I didn't ahve to scroll down numerous gears to find what I was looking for.
The DSL on the SL performed its function but in some ways I felt as if I was not in control. The "S" did hold in 4k and I was able to take the turn almost as fast but it didn't seem to feel as natural as using the 6 speed shifter. I guess a lot of it is personal preference. It was just that with the "S" position, sometimes I felt as if there was a bit of engine braking when I let off the pedal when I would have rather that it just shifted into a higher gear. I took the same 5 mile route with both SE and SL and I'd have to say that 6-speed > DSL
In driving the SE and SL, I noticed a much stiffer suspension in the SE. However, it didn't see as if there was less body roll with the SE or any real performance gains over the SL. In some ways I almost felt more comfortable driving the SL because the steering wheel wasn't twitching over every damn bump. I think the SE might have had over-inflated tires thereby causing the overly harsh ride. The SL flashed a low-tire pressure warning when I was driving it and after looking at both vehicles side by side, the SE had noticably more inflated sidewalls.
I also found out that dark silver lowers come on all touring / leather packages so I'm stuck with that. All the cars on the lot had the 5 spoke even the SE (Chrome 5 spokes).
Either way, I'll be going back on sunday with another one of my friends. Should be fun.
Dave |
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| crew219 |
Grip: I searched the lowering kits . . . . found the 22"s thread that you've been referencing . . . . the eastcoastimports thread is dead. Either way, I wouldn't use anything less than H&Rs. The quality of H&R springs is beyond most of the stuff you'll find out there. Been running them for awhile and have never had any sagging issues over time.
Anyways, after driving the SE, the only thing i'd probably do to it is find some PU bushings for the swaybars and perhaps get some shocks when they wear out. KYB just needs to come out with a shock replacement. Does anyone know if the Murano uses low-pressure hydraulic shocks or high pressure gas shocks?
Dave |
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| HuskyFan |
I have the 2005 SE and so far I don't find the ride overly stiff. I was told by a person at my dealership that the 2005 SE suspension was improved and is not as stiff as it was in 2004. I read that the Infiniti FX suspension was improved also because of complaints about the harshness in the original versions.
As far as lowering the car, the car has a long wheelbase and only about 7 inches of clearance so if you lower it any more you run the chance of damaging the underside. I just noticed on my new car that the center muffler already has been scraped and slightly dented. I don't know how or when it happened but lowering the car could be a problem. |
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| crew219 |
quote:
Originally posted by HuskyFan
I have the 2005 SE and so far I don't find the ride overly stiff. I was told by a person at my dealership that the 2005 SE suspension was improved and is not as stiff as it was in 2004. I read that the Infiniti FX suspension was improved also because of complaints about the harshness in the original versions.
As far as lowering the car, the car has a long wheelbase and only about 7 inches of clearance so if you lower it any more you run the chance of damaging the underside. I just noticed on my new car that the center muffler already has been scraped and slightly dented. I don't know how or when it happened but lowering the car could be a problem.
Generally I don't believe in lowering SUVs . . . . I don't think I do either after looking at the clearance on the "mo" today. That front scoop is too low to do anything without having to worry every second about it getting screwed up.
Dave |
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| hfelknor |
I think you have hit on it.
The muffler is a non issue. It can be replaced with a straight pipe. People have already done it and reported that the Murano then sounds "normal".
But the scoop on the CVT is required. And I really would not be comfortable knowing that I lowered the CVT down to 5" off the ground..............
That, to me, is the most important point.
I'll have to go ride the 05 SE.
When I did it in 03, I liked it.
But it didn't do expansion joints on concrete highways well.
I really didn't like the shocks.
I did however like the jazzing up of the steering feel. The steering was a bit nervous, but I like that.
I suspect that the bushings on the SE are a lot harder than the SL and the shocks are ........well I would call them HD. They certainly are damped more but they gave up compliance to get there IMO.
All this w/regard to the 03 SE of course.
I have deliberatly tried to not go see the 05........I don't want to pull a GripperDon here. My 03 only has 12,000 miles and I am finally enjoying a fully broken in fun machine.
Homer
PS I often drive looking straight ahead.
If I don't turn my head, I don't see too much of the Cheap Looking interior. |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by hfelknor
I think you have hit on it.
The muffler is a non issue. It can be replaced with a straight pipe. People have already done it and reported that the Murano then sounds "normal".
But the scoop on the CVT is required. And I really would not be comfortable knowing that I lowered the CVT down to 5" off the ground..............
That, to me, is the most important point.
I'll have to go ride the 05 SE.
When I did it in 03, I liked it.
But it didn't do expansion joints on concrete highways well.
I really didn't like the shocks.
I did however like the jazzing up of the steering feel. The steering was a bit nervous, but I like that.
I suspect that the bushings on the SE are a lot harder than the SL and the shocks are ........well I would call them HD. They certainly are damped more but they gave up compliance to get there IMO.
All this w/regard to the 03 SE of course.
I have deliberatly tried to not go see the 05........I don't want to pull a GripperDon here. My 03 only has 12,000 miles and I am finally enjoying a fully broken in fun machine.
Homer
PS I often drive looking straight ahead.
If I don't turn my head, I don't see too much of the Cheap Looking interior.
And at night, you can't really see the top of the hard plastic dash. Another plus. |
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| MOpar |
Too late for most of us, but it would have been nice if Nissan could
have read coments like these before. Or tested the plastics, mine
is only three weeks old and B pillar looks crappy. |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
Is this any good?
http://www.drivewire.com/performanc...ranoprokit.html
From what I hear, Eibachs are harsher than the H&R's but give slightly sharper handling. I would avoid aftermarket lowering springs unless firmer dampers are also available, such as KYB AGX's. Lowering on stock strut/shocks results in a terribly underdamped ride.
I had H&R/AGX combo on my 97 Maxima and it was superb. Comfortable yet cornered on rails.
I would be perfectly happy with the stock SE springs and AGX's all around. |
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| crew219 |
heh tirerack is better than that link ;)
they list both H&Rs and eibachs. I'm not an eibach fan. Too much of a floaty feel (they're VERY progressive) and the rear drops more than the front.
Either way, I need shocks to go with the springs regardless. Not going to slap springs on stock shocks. (it'd kill them in 10k)
Dave |
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| crew219 |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric L.
From what I hear, Eibachs are harsher than the H&R's but give slightly sharper handling. I would avoid aftermarket lowering springs unless firmer dampers are also available, such as KYB AGX's. Lowering on stock strut/shocks results in a terribly underdamped ride.
I had H&R/AGX combo on my 97 Maxima and it was superb. Comfortable yet cornered on rails.
I would be perfectly happy with the stock SE springs and AGX's all around.
Actually Eibachs have lower spring rates . . . . and poorer handling. H&Rs tend to be stiffer and have sharper handling. Eibachs also never give the advertised rate and will sag over time.
Dave |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by crew219
Actually Eibachs have lower spring rates . . . . and poorer handling. H&Rs tend to be stiffer and have sharper handling. Eibachs also never give the advertised rate and will sag over time.
Dave
Really? Maybe it was just backwards in the Maxima - where the Eibachs had higher spring rates than the H&R's, and the H&R's were more progressive.
In either case, I have used H&R and know they are a quality product, I would definitely stick with that. |
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| GripperDon |
| Actually that was what appealed to me. I already personally think the SE is too firm (for my taste) the shorter spring was going to accentuate that, so the progressive and "Floaty feeling' was going to help overcome the shorter spring. I wasn't interested for myself anyway just providing a perspective. I think I'll stick to the electronics / entertainment stuff and leave the structural / engine to others. |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
Actually that was what appealed to me. I already personally think the SE is too firm (for my taste) the shorter spring was going to accentuate that, so the progressive and "Floaty feeling' was going to help overcome the shorter spring. I wasn't interested for myself anyway just providing a perspective. I think I'll stick to the electronics / entertainment stuff and leave the structural / engine to others.
The "float" in the stock suspension will be entirely eliminated if you use a lowering spring with stock dampers - replaced by your suspension bottoming out and hitting the bumpstops. Not a good setup.
I expect in maybe two years, we might have AGX's out, and then things will get interesting.
A lot of people think that stiff suspension = good handling. Somewhat true. BMW has known it for years, that a proper road suspension with SOFT compliant springs and STIFF shocks delivers a civil ride and good at the limit handling. |
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| GripperDon |
| See that's why. |
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| crew219 |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
Actually that was what appealed to me. I already personally think the SE is too firm (for my taste) the shorter spring was going to accentuate that, so the progressive and "Floaty feeling' was going to help overcome the shorter spring. I wasn't interested for myself anyway just providing a perspective. I think I'll stick to the electronics / entertainment stuff and leave the structural / engine to others.
Personally I think shocks do more for ride comfort than springs do. I've had insanely high spring rates coupled with a low pressure adjustable hydraulic shock and with a few turns it can feel like a comfortable lexus or a rock hard auto-x car.
my point with the eibachs is that they rate their spring rates too low and over time what happens is that they start to sag. The H&Rs are progressive as well, i just think that they have their spring rates set better. Also their process of cold winding ensures spring longevity. After driving the SE, I'm really looking forward to the KYB AGXs because I think I can smooth out the ride more while maintaining the performance aspects of the stiffer spring.
Dave |
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| GripperDon |
| When you get it done I would love a ride and a LOOK! |
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| crew219 |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric L.
The "float" in the stock suspension will be entirely eliminated if you use a lowering spring with stock dampers - replaced by your suspension bottoming out and hitting the bumpstops. Not a good setup.
I expect in maybe two years, we might have AGX's out, and then things will get interesting.
A lot of people think that stiff suspension = good handling. Somewhat true. BMW has known it for years, that a proper road suspension with SOFT compliant springs and STIFF shocks delivers a civil ride and good at the limit handling.
Weight distribution has a lot to do with it however . . . since BMWs are RWD and have a much diff weight distribution, they require different types of spring rates from a FWD front heavy car.
I had soft springs and stiff shocks on my passat at one point . . . . it had good handling but i thought the ride sucked. Type of shock also matters . . . . high pressure gas shocks have greater compression and rebound rates than low pressure hydraulic shocks. Adjustable shocks tend to be hydraulic.
Dave |
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| crew219 |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
When you get it done I would love a ride and a LOOK!
:) no lowering for me . . . . . after today's test drive i've decided on an SE . . . I'd rather not lose any warranty on the car so I will try to mod as little as possible. Lowering also affects several alignment settings . . . . some of which might be too complicated or require special tools that the dealer only has. Its not worth it for me esp since I'm buying the murano for ground clearance. I think the stock height allows the fender wells to flow perfectly with the 18" wheels anyways.
Dave |
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| jaak |
quote:
Originally posted by crew219
Well i just got back from the nissan dealership. Spent about 2 hours there bs'ing with bored salesmen and the fleet manager.
Test drove both a 2004 SE and a 2004 SL
Thank You!!!! I've been waiting for a year for someone to do this!
This is what I would have wanted to hear, but every time I spoke to someone with an SE about the 6 speed, it wasn't what I wanted to hear.
I went through the same experience with the ride of the SE and thought the same thing about the tires after I got my SL. The Murano ships with the tires up around 50 lbs, if I remember correctly. If this hasn't been corrected, it makes a mess of the ride.
Still like the 5 spokes better than the 6 though. Liked them since the seventies, but that's definately a personal preference.;) The 6 spokes aren't a new design for Nissan, they've had that style for a number of years on other vehicles. So neither is a ground breaking design.
When it's time to lose this Murano, I'll have to check them both out again. I like the braking effect of S. It's really useful and I use it every day. I wonder if the 6 speed is that easy? |
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| crew219 |
quote:
Originally posted by jaak
Thank You!!!! I've been waiting for a year for someone to do this!
This is what I would have wanted to hear, but every time I spoke to someone with an SE about the 6 speed, it wasn't what I wanted to hear.
I went through the same experience with the ride of the SE and thought the same thing about the tires after I got my SL. The Murano ships with the tires up around 50 lbs, if I remember correctly. If this hasn't been corrected, it makes a mess of the ride.
Still like the 5 spokes better than the 6 though. Liked them since the seventies, but that's definately a personal preference.;) The 6 spokes aren't a new design for Nissan, they've had that style for a number of years on other vehicles. So neither is a ground breaking design.
When it's time to lose this Murano, I'll have to check them both out again. I like the braking effect of S. It's really useful and I use it every day. I wonder if the 6 speed is that easy?
Once you slide it over . . . . it seems like its in the "downshifted" gear so if you release your foot from the gas pedal . . . . you will get some engine braking. In some ways i think you could almost engine brake better with the 6 speed because you can downshift each gear for whatever speed you're slowing down to.
I'm surprised no one else has written about a back to back testdrive. I'll be going back on sunday with a friend. Anything you want me to look at or comment on?
Dave |
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| Murano_driver |
| Well I was also driving both SL and SE and I did not see much of the difference in CVT, but I choose SE because of the suspension. When driving SE I have a feeling that I am actually “driving”. I am driving to work everyday, so I know exactly what speed at what turn my ’97 maxima SE could handle. I tried exactly the same with my Mo and I was very impressed. I maintained a full control of the vehicle all the time and I did not see any bad hobbits. |
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| GripperDon |
| Did you see any good Hobbits? Are they those little elf like creatures? :D Got Ya! |
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| Murano_driver |
| LOL sorry for the typo…..Yes I saw good habits. It handles wet road perfectly and stay in control on the high speed……. |
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| GripperDon |
| Don't apologize how else would I get to make a PUN |
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| BoraBill |
H.I.D.'s!!! the only reason why I went with the SE.
of course I love the 6-manual cvt as well. |
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| crew219 |
| HIDs come as part of the premium package on the SL |
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| BoraBill |
ahh I see..... well the thing is my wife and I wanted a base model (no bose, no sunroof, no leather)...the only thing that perked up was the HID's and 6-spoke wheels. Finding that match was easy.....SE had all those without going through expensive packages we didn't want.
Good to know SL has avail. HID's.
-Bill |
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| GripperDon |
| Wanted to be sure so I checked my "Window Sheet" Yup it's an SL has TPMS , HID's and no Premium package. Guess they forgot to tell Nissan the rule. Even says Tire Pressure Measuring System ---- No Charge. |
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| BoraBill |
coming from the VW crew/forums...i'm so lost on all these features and availabilities on the MO.
Hope to learn a few things from you guys! (wish i checked here before...shoulda bought an '05!) |
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| GripperDon |
| I've had both, you will still love the 04. ENJOY :D |
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| mtetzlaff |
Having just traded my 03 SL for a 05 SE, my wife and I like the ride of the SE better than the SL. Lot's or new toys to play with with the loaded SE. My wife said "Merry Christmas, get the new Murano".
Marc
:D |
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| nissanlove |
| damn, i wish my mom would say that. but she know's were gonna trade the murano in the new year. it's all b/c of me that we get a new car every year haha. |
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| GripperDon |
| Hey another up trader! |
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