| rjkrej |
| Here in the Cincinnati area we received about 8" of the white stuff. Of course my wife had planned a full day of last minute Christmas shopping. Why most sane people stayed warm at home, we ventured out in our MO. Here in Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky the road crews are not used to this amount of snowfall, so the roads were in very poor condition. I just want to say, that the AWD Murano is the best vehicle I have ever owned to handle heavy snow. It just plowed through anything while others struggled. Starting and stopping were amazing. If you are looking for a vehicle for good snow navigation, the AWD Murano is the best! |
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| Kris |
| I am happy for you. I usually am in Cinty once a month.......anyway, now snow it Atlanta................an I am happy with that!!!!!:D |
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| Stoker |
quote:
Originally posted by rjkrej
Here in the Cincinnati area we received about 8" of the white stuff. Of course my wife had planned a full day of last minute Christmas shopping. Why most sane people stayed warm at home, we ventured out in our MO. Here in Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky the road crews are not used to this amount of snowfall, so the roads were in very poor condition. I just want to say, that the AWD Murano is the best vehicle I have ever owned to handle heavy snow. It just plowed through anything while others struggled. Starting and stopping were amazing. If you are looking for a vehicle for good snow navigation, the AWD Murano is the best!
Note to rjkrej: Please send all excess snow to Calgary as we are drying out and it is no fun skiing on rocks. Send collect, go Fedex |
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| nissanlove |
haha bring some of that snow up to edmonton to. maybe we could get some dump trucks to bring in some snow from the east coast after the huge blizzard they had.
me honestly i don't feel very safe driving the mo in the snow. we have 12000km old goodyears on our mo and well they look brand new but there is no traction with them. and when the snow gets a bit slushy, any traction that i had is totally lost. the other day i was trying to turn onto the main road by our house from a stop. i gave it a little gas and almost plowed into the barrier . at the last second the rear end of the mo slid out. i think if the mo had winter tires it would be better. |
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| Rayt |
Though I like my '04 MO, it has less than 5k miles on it and it's the worst AWD car I've owned for the snow. Not sure how much of it is related to the tires or the AWD system itself.
I currently own 2 other AWD vehicles and they are much more predictable in the snow.
Ray |
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| Rayt |
I'm sure a lot of this is based on what you're use too. If you're experience is based on 2 WD vehicles then the Mo's AWD will seem great. I've driven some well engineered AWD systems in real nasty weather here in the north east.
The best AWD I've driven is my '04 E500 4Matic. It currently had 18k miles and the tires are down to 4/32's (new rubber on order) and it's by far the best in snow or ice. Of course the ground clearance is minimal but it's great in bad weather.
I know that's not a fair comp because of the price difference but even my '03 Jeep GC LTD is better than the MO in snow.
Ray |
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| Gonzo |
| Rayt what did you find lacking in the MO's AWD system? |
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| Eric L. |
Personally I find the AWD system to be fine for accelerating in a straight line, but when cornering, the AWD should be active the entire time, not kick in during midturn and causing the rear to kick out. As such, I find myself turning much slower in the snow than even the FWD vehicles, because when the rear wheels activate with the AWD the lousy Goodyears have no traction.
I have a feeling its due more to the Goodyears than the AWD system. |
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| NatasG |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric L.
Personally I find the AWD system to be fine for accelerating in a straight line, but when cornering, the AWD should be active the entire time, not kick in during midturn and causing the rear to kick out. As such, I find myself turning much slower in the snow than even the FWD vehicles, because when the rear wheels activate with the AWD the lousy Goodyears have no traction.
I have a feeling its due more to the Goodyears than the AWD system.
Hello everyone. Longtime lurker first time poster.
Just wanted to completely agree with Eric. I am in the process of buying a new car and yesterday in the snow here in Boston I test drove the FX35 and the Mo back to back. FX AWD system is unbelieveable. Much more advanced I have to say than the Mo. Not to say though that the system in the Mo is not good in 99% of the cases. Turning was a big dif. Did a U turn in the Mo on a snow covered road and scared the heck out of my wife when the rear swung out on me when the AWD kicked in just like Eric mentioned. Did not try it with the AWD locked which could have made a difference and I think the car I test drove may not have had VDC.
Lastly, I have to say we will probably go with the Mo since all in all it is a great car with a lot more room. Need to call up my dealer today and see if he will sell me a loaded 05 SE (without NAV and DVD) at invoice. We shall see... |
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| porboy44 |
I'll agree with most that the tires are probably what's most effecting snow driveability. If you look at Tire Racks website the Goodyears are rated awful in the snow.
Relative to an 2wd drive car the grip can seem amazing but don't forget that 4wd only helps you in accelerating. It really doesn't help you stop or turn. In fact 4wd has a tendency to act like a RWD car in the snow. So while the ability to start moving in foul conditions is increased it only adds a false sense of security for the rest of your driving. That's probably why most SUV owners drive like dopes in the snow. They think they are invinceable.
A set of snow tires (even cheap ones) will greatly increase your ability to stop and turn in the snow. After you've driven on snow tires you'll never go without. I always have just looked at snow tires as cheap insurance.
Matt |
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| jaak |
I'm amazed about you guys... For day to day use and good fuel milage, the system is fantastic. If the weather is so bad that the back end can kick out, then push the AWD button and the characteristics completely change for the better.
I think you guys need to spend some time in a big empty snow covered parking lot getting to know the Murano.
I felt the same way, then realised why. The AWD takes some time to detect the problem and kick in. For normal driving, it's fine. When you start driving aggressively, it sucks.
Push the button and it's fine again. I like the choice and it works.
I can say the same about 4WD vehicles I've had when in RWD only, mode. They were terrible in the snow.
Third winter in my Murano and now that I'm smarter about the system (learned that the first winter) I'm still delighted with how it works. My wife borrowed it christmas eve and I had left it in AWD due to the amount of snow. She came back raving how well it worked. And she rarely drives it.
It may have been different, if I hadn't left it in AWD.
The Murano's not a sports car, nor is it a full off road SUV. But I think it's the perfect balance. As far as the FX goes, I like it, but I'd still rather have FWD with rear assist, a CVT, and the ability to put in larger boxes in the back, all things the FX can't do.:D
Just my opinion, of course, but that's one of the millions of reasons why I love this vehicle.:cool: |
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| Rayt |
Yesterday I had a chance to really spend some quality time with the MO in bad weather. As was mention above, the MO seems to goes fine in a straight line, most of the time. It’s when you need to turn it really falls short. I don’t mean just a sharp turn, even a small course correction. It just seems there’s a stability issue. The rear end seems to be just hanging on and not digging in. It seems to behave more like a FWD than an AWD when the roads are slippery.
It appears to me that the AWD system just doesn’t engage quickly enough. Or the distribution of torque isn’t what I’m use too. I did keep the AWD Lock on for most of the trip but not sure if this had much effect. Doesn’t that turn off at 19mph?
There's not question that some of this could be the tires. However, I haven't used snow tires since my last RWD car; an E420 and it was a must. I realize not all "All Season Tires" are created equal.
Maybe it’s the nature of the beast because its roots are FWD. All of my AWD vehicles have been RWD based.
Ray |
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| kalins1 |
As a long time Subaru owner, I will say that Subarus have the same turning characteristics as the MO in snow. I had to spend some quality time in an empty parking lot when first driving a Subie to learn how to prevent the rear-end from kicking out.
Subie automatics put 90% of their power on the front wheels and manuals have a 50/50 split.
Mine have always been autos. |
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| samwlee |
Had a good chance to test the Mo last nite in Boston - good 6-8".. straight line was very good, but turns into side streets - severe understeer.... turns onto main roads, the rear end would kick out a bit.. with AWD lock on, there were no issues.. but that turns off past 19 mph..
Overall stability was pretty good, but it gotta be the tires the Mo comes with - the tread isn't that great for the snow..
On side note, complaints about the wipers - rear ones are fine, but the fronts, so damn hard to clean. I think Nissan wanted a more aerodynamic look for the wipers, but I wish I could pull them up and hold them for easier cleaning, and prevent the blades from freezing to the windshield. |
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| jaak |
First time I went from a RWD car in the snow to a FWD car in the snow, I thought it was terrible.
Then I realised I was applying RWD driving practices to a FWD car and it doesn't work. I relearned how to drive a FWD and would never go back to RWD for the snow, in a million years.
I also relearned for 4WD.
I had to relearn again for AWD based on FWD.
I also had to recognise the advantage of computer controlled occasional AWD vs. clicking the switch for full time AWD.
Yes, it's below 19 MPH. Haven't found that to be an issue either. By the time I'm going 19 MPH, I get all the power transfer I want through the front wheels, without the additional drivetrain inefficiencies of AWD at a speed where it's not needed.
Thank you Nissan, I think you did a great job.
And I taught myself, yet again, how to drive and take advantage of your system. Including, when to push the button.
Skid school also was fun and helped, many years ago. After all, where else can you have your employer pay for you to learn how to do a "Rockford"?:D |
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| Gonzo |
Jaak,
Maybe a quick summary what you had learned. I'm coming from a FWD drive car... I only drove a RWD car once in the winter and I'm with you... why would any one in the snow belt area every want a RWD... such a big difference in a FWD car.
But what useful information can you provide to me about the MO AWD system? I had fun coming into work this morning. The parking lot was emtpy so I decided to try to slide into the spot... well I got it to slide into a spot but not the one I was trying for. :eek:
Good thing I had some brains to try it in an emtpy parking lot! |
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| nissanlove |
| haha i found that the murano is incredibly easy to do donuts in an empyt parking lot with. one the rear engages to me it acts like a RWD car. we have a truck at home also and it has a 4HI and 4Lo setting so i don't think you can compare the murano to the truck. but for sure the tires are teh concluding issue. the tires on the truck are almost gone and even with 4wd there is no chance of it reacting the way it should. it actually drives liek the murano now. and forget about having RWD when you have 300+ hp at your disposal. there's no way your going anywhere with that. |
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| Rayt |
There's no question a FWD vehicle is better in the snow than a RWD. However, if you like driving high end performance cars, how many FWD's fall into that category?
Rayt |
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| nissanlove |
that's why you sacrifce and get a RWD sports car for the summer and a fwd or awd for the winter
here in edmonton it's not practical to have a devoted summer car as winter is at least 6 months outta the year. |
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| special-k |
I'm anxiously awaiting our first heavy snow since I bought my Mo a few weeks ago. I've been driving in the snow in various vehicles for years, and I don't mind bragging that I can drive in the snow very well. I was able to pilot my 320HP RWD Firebired (with a manual transmission, fairly worn tires, and no traction control back then...) through 8" of snow -- so deep in fact that the slope of the hood was actually cutting into the snow and plowing it up over the hood --- and I never really had a serious problem aside from the obvious and expected traction losses which I was able to correct. Meanwhile, the newbie and overly-confident 4WD jeep owner went off the road twice, and the FWD that was leading our caravan had a case of understeer-itis and tried to make a 70-degree turn at 30MPH and ended up sliding right off the road into the median.
Through the years I've learned that the vehicle accounts for about 20-30% of winter driving ability, and the driver for the other 70-80%. If you know how to drive in the snow, you should be able to do pretty well in just about any vehicle barring extreme cases. If you don't know how to drive in the snow, you can be in the best snow-capable vehicle in the world and still not be able to stay on the road.
I've read up on Mo's AWD system and I've read the posts where folks complain about the rear end kicking out, etc. I'm waiting to test this out for myself, but let's think about this for a second. If the roads are slippery enough that you can kick the rear end out that easily, should you REALLY be trying to negotiate turns at speeds above 19MPH? If you keep the speed reasonable with respect to road conditions, you should be able to make your turns with AWD fully locked and engaged. Yes, the rear end will kick out if you're not locked and the AWD engages -- that's the nature of the beast with a dynamic AWD system. Subarus do it.... Audis do it (although to a lesser extent... the Quattro system is incredibly well-engineered), even the venerable Mercedes will do it in certain vehicles (I've not had the pleasure of driving all the different models of MBs...). If you're going above 19MPH and find that there's not enough traction to keep the vehicle stuck where it belongs, then perhaps you should re-evaluate your situation and decide if going that fast is really the right choice, rather than expecing miracles from the vehicle!
I look forward to taking my Mo through the paces soon... as I look out my office window I can see the clouds moving in over the mountains for the storm that the weather folks were predicting for later today. I'll gladly post back with my impressions after we get some stuff on the ground. |
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| samwlee |
I wasn't saying I was turning faster 19 mph and having the rear end kick out ( I have driven Bronco's and Explorers prior to my Mo).. in both instances, I was well below 19 mph- once turning into a side street, and the other turning into a main road from a stop. Both instances, my Mo briefly lost traction and I had to correct it.
Obviously if I was driving faster than 20+ mph into a turn in slippery conditions, I'd lose traction! I'm merely pointing out what I experienced and wanted to see if others did as well. |
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| Eric L. |
I would ask kindly that people refrain from concluding that the Murano's AWD characteristics are the result of bad driving behavior or lack of skill in inclement weather. That is a conclusion which cannot be made without knowing the various experience levels of the drivers in this forum.
I was merely posting what my experience is with the Murano, that the AWD reacts slowly and can make some slippery turns on snow/ice rather unsettling. It seems that experience has been confirmed by other members on this forum, so its likely not a phenomenon of poor or reckless driving.
I do have the VDC and have almost always countersteered quickly enough such that the VDC rarely activates during the Murano's theatrical slide when the rear wheels kick in.
Yes I realize this can all be corrected with AWD lock, but I don't want to be hitting the switch everytime I am about to make a turn. Nissan specifically states in the owners manual that AWD lock should only be used when the terrain is rough or if the roads are bumpy (I am guessing during light offroading). I wouldn't count slushy roads as rough or bumpy. |
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| special-k |
samwlee
I wasn't attacking you personally, or anyone personally for that matter... just observations from the numerous posts I've read.
I've also noticed a lot of people saying the tires suck... which is disappointing. In other threads I've read where people put aftermarket tires on and say the ride quality is crappy... is there no all-around good tire for the Mo? Good performing dry, wet, and moderate snow traction while still providing a nice comfortable ride?
Like I said, I've yet to experience the Mo's AWD first-hand. I'm disappointed because the clouds are breaking up. Maybe the storm won't hit until late tonight or tomorrow, but I'm looking forward to it. I can't wait to take the Mo out for a slide, er, drive, and see what it can do. |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by special-k
samwlee
I wasn't attacking you personally, or anyone personally for that matter... just observations from the numerous posts I've read.
I've also noticed a lot of people saying the tires suck... which is disappointing. In other threads I've read where people put aftermarket tires on and say the ride quality is crappy... is there no all-around good tire for the Mo? Good performing dry, wet, and moderate snow traction while still providing a nice comfortable ride?
Like I said, I've yet to experience the Mo's AWD first-hand. I'm disappointed because the clouds are breaking up. Maybe the storm won't hit until late tonight or tomorrow, but I'm looking forward to it. I can't wait to take the Mo out for a slide, er, drive, and see what it can do.
Unfortunately at this moment, there are no "car" tires for the Murano other than the lousy Goodyears. The other tires that fit in a plus zero sizing are "sport truck" tires, which appear to ride less smoothly than the Goodyears. I cannot wait until a decent "car" high performance all season tire is made for the Murano. |
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| GripperDon |
| More Egg-Nog is in order. |
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| special-k |
Eric L.
Like I said in the above post, I wasn't attacking anyone, just observing. I'd seen various posts about losing traction in turns where the AWD lock wouldn't have mattered because they were above 19MPH... if anyone took it personally or was offended, I apologize.
quote:
Yes I realize this can all be corrected with AWD lock, but I don't want to be hitting the switch everytime I am about to make a turn. Nissan specifically states in the owners manual that AWD lock should only be used when the terrain is rough or if the roads are bumpy (I am guessing during light offroading). I wouldn't count slushy roads as rough or bumpy.
That's interesting because I interpreted the manual slightly differently. Maybe I should go back and read it again... it seemed to me that yes, AWD lock shouldn't be used when it's not needed, but that it wouldn't hurt anything to turn it on and leave it on if you're on questionable roads (slushy, icy, etc.) as it would automatically disengage itself over 19MPH. In my mind, I figured if the roads were crappy I'd just put the switch on and let it lock at low speeds so that turning was more stable... at higher speeds it would shut off anyway. Did I misunderstand?
Also, I do *not* have VDC in my Mo. Did I make a mistake? Am I missing out on something great? What does it do exactly? In the past, other vehicles I've had with "traction control systems" were only moderately useful... if you ask me, AWD + ABS is all I could imagine needing. |
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| Eric L. |
VDC is a stability control program which intervenes if there is excessive understeer or oversteer. Basically, it keeps you from spinning the vehicle in an abrupt maneuver, such as an emergency lane change, or.... an overly enthusiastic turn in the snow :D
I once made an emergency lane change when a green Passat cut me off at 75mph and the quick left right left motion activated the VDC. I wondered what would have happened if I did not have it, since even the sports cars would have issues doing such a maneuver at 75mph.
Its pretty fun to go out to a snow covered parking lot and do some maneuvers with and without VDC. The difference is dramatic, and convinces me that VDC is a great thing to have. |
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| samwlee |
No offense taken Special-K.. just wanted to explain that I wasn't being a knucklehead on the snowy roads...
But getting back to the discussion, I too don't want to be hitting the AWD lock button often - AWD should automatically kick in as needed.
Does anyone know if and when AWD does kick in, how long does it remain engaged? I'll have the check the manual again perhaps, but I remember hearing that on the AWD version, the torque split it 91/9 front-rear at normal? |
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| Eric L. |
| The European Murano has a 91/9 F/R distribution, but I think I remember reading the US version operates in 100% FWD until AWD is needed. Perhaps this is different for the 2005 model? |
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| jaak |
The first time I took the Murano into a snow covered parking lot and tried to learn how to slide in it, it scared the $@#^$ out of me. It was very uncomfortable, coming from a car that didn't lean as much, and was much lower.
However, part of it was how I was using the gas pedal as well.
It takes some ability to learn and understand the characteristics of the vehicle. For example, the Murano's great if you want to drift through a corner in the snow, you have to poke the gas a bit to bring the back end out a little then back off a bit, but not a lot, on the gas, while turning into the direction you want and accelerating.
It's a combination of RWD and FWD driving techniques, one right after the other and smoothly transitioned.
It takes practice, getting used to the way the Murano leans and not freaking out about it and instantly backing off on the gas. And it's much more predictable when the AWD is turned on.
I agree the Murano is not as good as [FILL IN THE BLANK] when you need to [DRIVE A CERTAIN WAY FOR A CERTAIN REASON] but let's look at the intent of the vehicle and reason for having AWD in it in the first place.
Is it a performance vehicle? No, but it gives us more than we ever expected. Is it an off road capable SUV? No, and it doesn't suffer from that kind of vehicle's issues when what you really want on the road is a car. Is it a car? No, but it gives you those things you wanted in the SUV that wasn't optimised for the road and you only took off road, because you had to try it and be able to tell someone else you had.
Is it an excellent blend of the various characteristics from those different vehicles. Yes! Is it a compromise? Definitely. Is there another vehicle I'd rather be driving, given the choice of one? Not a chance...
Now if I had the money to spend, I'd buy purpose built vehicles that outperform the Murano in all kinds of different ways.
But I don't and I find the Murano to be a fabulous combination of the things I need.
If you need a sports car or an off road 4WD, why would you get a Murano?
So I think Nissan did a great job to find the balance of what I want. I don't want full time AWD, as it doesn't give me anything useful in day to day driving for most of the road conditions or the year. But it's nice to have it kick in when it's a little slippery off a start, and nice to force it on all the time, when it's really slippery.
I have no complaints.
It did take a while for me to catch up to what it was about though... And yes, it will scare the stuff out of you, if you try to slide it or gas it in slippery conditions without understanding it.
First winter, I punched it making a left turn in some conditions bordering on freezing rain. I almost spun it around when the rear wheels kicked in. This was not normal driving conditions and not being used to how it reacted, I backed off on the gas, which aggravated the situation. The rear wheels broke loose when they kicked in, 'cause I was gassing it hard, then I let off the gas and the braking effect of the CVT made the front wheels pull in harder and the back ones slide more. Good thing I missed that pole!
Hmmm.. That's another factor that we forget about. Throttle control is important even more so, because of the CVT's braking effect. I've learned how to use it to my advantage, but if you treat it like a conventional automatic, you will be surprised.
I've taken the time to understand the dynamics of the vehicle and love it. But yes, you have to learn to drive, all over again.
Just like when you go from a RWD where you back off on the gas to straighten it out, when the rear end comes out. Then you have to learn to gently accelerate on a FWD to straighten out in those same conditions. The Murano's AWD is a strange combination of the both of them, at different times, with an automatic transmission that has engine braking.
If it all scares you, make sure you get VDC and don't drive beyond your skills. The VDC will help you, as long as you're not pushing the envelope. I think it's a cool feature, and I'll want it on my next Murano, as long as it still has the off switch.
As far as RWD being preferred on high performance, that's more an issue of drive train robustness, and torque steer, not because RWD is better, it's just harder to break the parts when you're not trying to steer with those driving wheels as well. If you're trying to race, then a true full time AWD would be the best, if you can overcome the cost of light and robust drivetrain and suspension components for a high level of HP.
Just my observations. After all, I could be completely wrong and this has all been a dream. Sure would suck to wake up to a world without my Murano!:D |
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| Gonzo |
Thanks for the reply Jaak... very informative. I am use to FWD and using the gas to pull through a turn... I have to experiment with the MO and see what happens. I wish that when the AWD kicked in the light on the dash would come on so at least I would know what the MO was doing and the time I'm experiencing a handling scenario.
Happy winter driving! |
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| NatasG |
| Well Said Jaak! We decided on the Murano yesterday and I made sure that the dealer is finding our SE with the VDC. I know that I can handle most conditions but I worry a little more about my wife who has less confidence. I am a very experienced driver in the snow having lived in New Hamshire and then Syracuse and now the Boston Area. When I was taking my test drives with the FX and the Murano I was pushing the envelope on purpose to see what to expect from the vehicle in exteeme conditions. With all that I have experienced I feel confident that my instincts can correct situations of lost traction. Actually, on the way home, conditions had deteriorated so bad that I was experiencing 4 wheel traction loss in my 02 Pathfinder SE countinually pushing the car to the side. I have the 5-speed manual and I think the high-gearing first gear had something to do with it. Anyway, the Murano is a wonderful comprimise in a vehicle that I cannot wait have as my own. And the milage from the CVT only puts the icing on the cake. Anxiously awaiting the call from the dealer with the news of finding my new Nissan... |
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| samwlee |
Thanks Jaak... will have to practice snow driving and learn the characteristics of the Mo.... perhaps we should do a group meet where we can get together and share our tips :D
Anyone else in the Boston area?!?!?!?!?! |
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| Gonzo |
| I am in the Boston area.... |
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| NatasG |
| So that makes three of us so far. where did you guys buy/lease your Muranos? I am dealing with Frost Nissan in Newton (where I leased my Pathfinder) on the purchase of my new Murano right now. Should hear from them today or tomorrow on locating my vehicle. |
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| samwlee |
| I leased at Quirk Nissan in Quincy... they had the biggest selection ( think they are the largest volume?)... |
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| Rayt |
I really don’t want to get into and argument about this FWD vs. RWD issue. I clearly have my opinion with this subject when it comes to performance vehicles. I’ve owned many in this category, from Porsche, BWM, Viper, Q45 and Mercedes. I’ve also owned 2 Saab 9000 Turbo’s. There’s no question a FWD vehicle is better in the snow than a RWD. However, they handle like toys compared to a RWD vehicle.
IMO there’s energy lost when you accelerate and steer with the same wheels. Also there is an issue with the transfer of weight under acceleration.
The following links are interesting reading;
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/020619.htm
http://slate.msn.com/id/2081194/
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/040331.htm
I can’t wait to the see the crap I get from this…
Ray |
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| Gonzo |
I got my MO from Frost as well... I can say that I was not that impressed but still went through with the transaction. We almost walked out of there after the "manager" spoke with us.
The service dept is just OK... they alway have an excuse of given me a hastle but if you don't push back and you are in the right they usually go with you. |
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| NatasG |
quote:
Originally posted by Gonzo
I got my MO from Frost as well... I can say that I was not that impressed but still went through with the transaction. We almost walked out of there after the "manager" spoke with us.
The service dept is just OK... they alway have an excuse of given me a hastle but if you don't push back and you are in the right they usually go with you.
Yeah, my impressions have been the same. Location is convenient though and they are giving me a pretty good deal again so I am sticking with them. |
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| jaak |
quote:
Originally posted by Rayt
I really don’t want to get into and argument about this FWD vs. RWD issue. I clearly have my opinion with this subject when it comes to performance vehicles.
Ray, I'm with you on this, when it comes to performance vehicles and agree completely.
However, for a daily driver that needs to be a compromise of the best aspects of many types of vehicles for many different conditions, and high performance sports or race car handling factoring fairly low in this, the Murano wins with me, hands down. That being said, the Murano's a lot sportier to drive then other vehicles of it's class, which is what attracted me to Nissan in the first place.
If I decided I wanted a "toy" car (meaning something to have fun driving in), in addition to my daily driver, it wouldn't be a Murano! It would resemble much of what you prefer. But it wouldn't be my daily driver, as it would fall down in a number of areas that are totally unacceptable, such as winter or other poor weather performance, comfort, drivability, convenience and carrying capacity. But I know it would be a heck of a lot of fun (corners like a demon) and fast (0-60 in 4 seconds). I've had that kind of performance before and know I like it.
So I'm not saying the Murano is the best vehicle, it's the best vehicle for my requirements.
There's different answers as to what's the best, depending on what's the application. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so many different types of vehicles. Nissan did a great job finding the optimum compromise for my requirements.
Two years of driving mine and I'm still in love. I keep looking for my next vehicle and so far, it's looking like another Murano. |
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| Gonzo |
quote:
Originally posted by NatasG
Yeah, my impressions have been the same. Location is convenient though and they are giving me a pretty good deal again so I am sticking with them.
Do you live in the "Frost" area? The price was fair enought but at the time they offered a free loaner while it was in the shop... which was priceless for me. OF course I've only used it 2 or 3 times but it is nice to have it when/if I need it.
I live on the other side of town. I also looked at Dedham Nissan. There were a little more expensive. |
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| jpeden |
Make that 4 in the Boston area...
I got mine about 2 months ago from the new Ira nissan in Woburn. Not too bad a deal from the sales staff, but no experience with the service department yet.
I leased an 04 SL/AWD/Leather/SunRoof/DVD ES
I gotta admit, every time it snows here, I get a little bit of a grin... since I can "play" a little bit more with my new toy. It sure was nice not to have to shovel the foot of snow from out front of my parking spot on Monday morning. Instead I dropped it into Ds, locked on the AWD, and rolled right over it :D
--
Hey Jaak... btw, I appologize for the radio silence lately... between the holidays and work picking back up again, haven't had the free time or motivation to plow through the remaining code. I plan on picking it back up after New Years... |
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| special-k |
Well my anxiously-awaited snowstorm has finally hit. We have 4-8" of new snow on the valley floor down here... and 2 - 5 FEET of new snow in the mountains. Awesome!
I had a perma-grin the whole way driving to work. I am quite happy with how the Mo performed in the snow and nasty slush. It took a few tries and some effort, but I figured out how to get the back end to kick out like you all have mentioned a few times. Really, though, I don't think it would have ever broken loose if I wasn't aggressively trying to make it happen.
If only the mountain roads weren't all closed I would have skipped worked, grabbed my skis, and headed off for a fun day on the slopes!
I patted my Mo on the dashboard when I got to work -- it did a good job. I think I'll keep her. |
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| samwlee |
To the Boston folks - Gonzo, jpeden, NatasG - any interests in meeting up in 2005 during the next snowstorm?
Or a meeting along with others as well, who want to drive up to Boston? |
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| MightyMo |
| I had a fricking GREAT time in the snow over the last few days in Death Valley. The Mo and my Kumho STXs handled it all wonderfully, even better than the stock Goodyears by a margin. I did finally get my self stuck on a steeeep up hill rocky dirt road grade when I hit a patch of 10-12" worth of snow :D, but I was able to shovel out and back down the mountain without any problem. The kids were with me and encouraged me to try to punch through the deep spot, but the extremely steep grade and the now compacted snow tracks was too slick for my tires without chains to dig in. Pictures to come in due course... |
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| zebelkhan |
quote:
Originally posted by MightyMo
I had a fricking GREAT time in the snow over the last few days in Death Valley. The Mo and my Kumho STXs handled it all wonderfully, even better than the stock Goodyears by a margin. I did finally get my self stuck on a steeeep up hill rocky dirt road grade when I hit a patch of 10-12" worth of snow :D, but I was able to shovel out and back down the mountain without any problem. The kids were with me and encouraged me to try to punch through the deep spot, but the extremely steep grade and the now compacted snow tracks was too slick for my tires without chains to dig in. Pictures to come in due course...
Wrong thread but I have to say it. Aren't you glad your alternator did not fail while you were in death valley?:eek: |
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| MightyMo |
| Ha, yes, that would have truly sucked. It wouldn't have been a really dangerous stuck-in-the-wilderness situation since I was able to run on the battery for several hours, but the tow fee I would have been charging Nissan USA for from DV to the nearest capable service station would have been a pretty penny indeed. ;) |
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| zebelkhan |
| I just read your post regarding the complaint. You were LUCKY! Next time carry an extra battery with you as you never know with this alternator. Okay... I am giving the thread back! |
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| simplesb |
| Now I'm curious because I'm heading to Reno, supposedly, this weekend. Do all the Murano's come with the same tires? If so then I can trust that mine would do just as well? does M/S tires qualify as snow tires per se? I am curious because the CHP is only allowing 4WD and snow tires through, do I meet this qualification? I do not want to drive there just to have to turn around. |
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| Eric L. |
| M+S do not count as dedicated snow tires. However, usually the CHP lets you go through if you have 4WD/AWD, even if you have all season tires. However, if conditions are that bad, you may find all season tires to be pretty slippery. |
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| Gonzo |
quote:
Originally posted by samwlee
To the Boston folks - Gonzo, jpeden, NatasG - any interests in meeting up in 2005 during the next snowstorm?
Or a meeting along with others as well, who want to drive up to Boston?
If I can make I would love to... if anything for some pictures and videos... something to share with the kids when they get older.... the great day of the MOs. :p |
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| EdMPT |
Well I haven't read this whole thread yet but I just came back from four straight days of snow in the Sierras I think it was about 4+ feet and counting when I left. I am very impressed with the way the Murano handled in the snow. I have the AWD with VDC and it performed much better than I expected, especially with the yuck Goodyears that came with the cruck. I thinks it's strong points in the snow are acceleration - it was quite grippy and fairly straight, also braking wasn't bad although I do feel like the ABS kicked in a little sooner than it should have. In fact it stopped better if I held the brakes just above the point where the ABS kicked in. Although it turned fairly well I just didn't have enough feedback from the road to tell when I was going to lose grip. The weakest point of the Murano in the snow was how the vehicle would slide laterally on cambered pavement. It was quite discomforting with little traction trying to descend a mountain pass and the car would start drifting towards the drifts and 8ft snow banks on the side of the road.
I will write more later but that was a brief synopsis of a very snowy few days. |
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| EdMPT |
| Here a shot of some of the better road conditions on my way home, there was approx 30 or so miles of these and pure white out conditions but the Murano performed well... |
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| GripperDon |
| I love the chains required Sign. :cool: |
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| EdMPT |
| It was good to be the second one in line behind the snow plow for a few miles.... |
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| EdMPT |
| Ya, I actually bought chains but never really felt like I needed to throw them on,,, |
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| Gonzo |
| Wow... that is just so beautiful.... I am referring to the MO of course. :p |
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| EdMPT |
I forgot to mention, one interesting thing happened. The TPMS stated I had a flat my second day there. I checked the pressures on the screen and the had gone from 32-33lbs at sea level to 27-28lbs at about 8000 ft. I am not sure if this is because of the cold temps 20 F at altitude compared to 50 at sea level, or because of the thinner air at altitude would create less pressure on the outside of the tire. I would think the tires are too stiff for outside air pressure to have much of an effect. In any case the TPMS stayed on until I got down to lower altitude and warmer temps, then pressures went back up to 31-32lbs. Can anyone enlighten us?
P.S. Moderators move if this is inappropriate here... |
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| MightyMo |
| Definitly temperature. Decrease in ambient pressure would actually make your tire pressure gauge read higher, as it's comparing the difference between the pressure in the tire and ambient. Pumping your tires up might have helped your traction, it really helps the traction patch a lot with water and I would presume similar with snow, though don't quote me on that :D. |
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| NatasG |
quote:
Originally posted by Gonzo
Do you live in the "Frost" area? The price was fair enought but at the time they offered a free loaner while it was in the shop... which was priceless for me. OF course I've only used it 2 or 3 times but it is nice to have it when/if I need it.
I live on the other side of town. I also looked at Dedham Nissan. There were a little more expensive.
Sorry for not replying sooner. Was out picking up my New 05 SE Murano with Touring and VDC. YIPPEE! Gotta say that this is a beautiful car! Made the deal with Frost for $150 over invoice. As far as location. Yeah, I actually work about 5 minutes from them so service and things are easier and live about 12 miles from them. You know how Boston is though...12 miles is 30-40 minutes. Actually left my pathfinder at the dealer overnight and need to head back in to pick it up today. Looks like my wife with get the drive the new car home today. |
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| Gonzo |
| Well picking up a new MO is a great excuse in my book! Congrats... enjoy it... I still love mine at 14K miles and 1.5 years of ownership. :roadtrip: |
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| simplesb |
| I most agree with EdMPT, the Mo handled very well in Reno this past weekend as I got to experience, at least what I heard, the worse snowfall in 40 years in Reno, or something like that. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but would have sworn I heard someone say that. Anyways other then a little bit of sliding here and there it did great, lucky for me I really wasn't drive when it was actually snowing. If a Mo has AWD is it correct to assume that it also has VDC? |
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| EasternPA |
Greetings, all, from sunny Florida!
Just wanted to poke my head in here, as I was one of the poor bastiges stuck in the hell formerly known as "Route 95 in North Carolina" last weekend. Some of you may recall the treacherous conditions in the Carolinas the day after Christmas, including 4 inches of ice and snow in the Raleigh area (sorry, not 4 feet!) While driving to Florida, what is normally a 3-hour state took 6 1/2 hours. We suffered through 150 miles of stop and go traffic, occasionally getting off 95 to give 301, a parallel local road, a try.
Conditions were excruciating, especially on the side roads. They seem to have no concept of winter road maintenance. Three to four inches of loosely packed snow covered by an inch or so of ice. We "ABS'ed it" up to each stop sign and red light, and I spent more than a few hours mentally braced for impact that I knew could be around any corner. Even when alone on the road, we were typically driving along at 25 in a 55 zone. It was absolutely terrible.
I'm posting because I wanted to stress the importance of tire maintenance to the folks here who experience seasonal changes. I have gone nearly 42,000 miles on the stock Goodyears, which was a big mistake. It was the AWD, ABS and VDC that got me to Florida alive and most certainly not the tires. As we start to head towards the deep winter, owners who experience climate changes and have more than 25 to 30,000 miles should consider getting new rubber.
I mentioned it months ago, but then put it off when I had an assignment that was scheduled to last another year, complete with a rental car. Well, that job was cut short at New Year's and I was suddenly stuck driving around on old, unsafe tires which I need to replace as soon as I get back North. If you're putting it off, waiting for the first big snow or ice event, please be safe about it. Have happy and *safe* New Year, everyone! |
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| Snow MO |
| EasternPA I'm glad to hear that you made it OK. Hope that you, your MO, and the rest of the family have a safe trip home. Thanks for the advice, I'm at 19,000 and can definitely feel the drop in confident stopping over last years winter. I'm amazed that the tires decreased in ability so quickly. Baby gets a new pair of shoes next winter! |
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| zebelkhan |
quote:
Originally posted by simplesb
If a Mo has AWD is it correct to assume that it also has VDC?
VDC is an additional option which you had to buy in addition to AWD. |
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| special-k |
quote:
Originally posted by simplesb
at least what I heard, the worse snowfall in 40 years in Reno, or something like that.
There's a lot of "big fish" stories going around about this Reno snow storm. I live in Reno now... been back here for about 11 months now. I lived here years ago, from 88-95. This storm, for a while, was looking like it was going to match and even surpass the President's Day Blizzard of 1990 -- but it stopped just a tad short. We were supposed to get another follow-up dumping of snow, but the low pressure system moved south a bit and the wave missed us. The next big storm is headed our way though, and it if stays on track, looks to be just as brutal as the last one, and should hit us by the weekend. I got about 2 feet total at my house in the Reno valley. My fiance's mother, who lives at Lake Tahoe, has over 4 feet at her house. The ski resorts got between 6 and 12 feet.
Needless to say -- AWESOME!
I will try and snap a couple webcam shots out my office window and post them here. |
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| special-k |
| Ok here's a few pics that I snapped, hopefully they'll work. This is out my office window, being shot with a webcam through glass with [cheap] tint on it, so the quality is pretty poor, but you get the idea. This is at UNR, where I work. You can see my Mo in the first pic. :) They've been plowing the parking lots and everything all weekend, but you get the idea! |
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| Dave N |
quote:
Originally posted by samwlee
To the Boston folks - Gonzo, jpeden, NatasG - any interests in meeting up in 2005 during the next snowstorm?
Or a meeting along with others as well, who want to drive up to Boston?
I guess that all depends on when they fix my Murano. It's at Bancroft (Worcester) getting a new transfer case installed. If any of you folks venture west of the city, let me know :D
Dave |
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| simplesb |
| Hmm maybe I should put up the pictures I took too. It took me 8 1/2 hrs for a 4- 4 1/2 hr drive, and it wasn't because of the blizzard conditions :3: . If my calculations are right it took me about 3 hrs to get to Verdi from Truckee and 2 1/2 to reach Reno from there. |
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| special-k |
quote:
Originally posted by simplesb
If my calculations are right it took me about 3 hrs to get to Verdi from Truckee and 2 1/2 to reach Reno from there.
Oh man... I don't envy you one bit. I would not have wanted to be trying to cross I-80 during that storm! I was happily at home with a cup of coffee watching a movie! :D |
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| special-k |
quote:
Originally posted by simplesb
If my calculations are right it took me about 3 hrs to get to Verdi from Truckee and 2 1/2 to reach Reno from there.
Oh yeah, just a frame of reference for those who don't know -- Verdi is only about 20-22 miles outside of Truckee, and Reno is only another 15 miles from Truckee! 5 1/2 hours for less than 40 miles.... man, that sucks! Hope you're not planning on coming back to Reno this weekend, another monster storm is supposed to hit this weekend! |
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| GripperDon |
| Let us see the Pics? |
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| zebelkhan |
| Yes pics please. I am sure you had PLENTY of time for that!! :2: |
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| rjive |
| Reading through some of the posts. I live in California and next week we are going to head up to Lake Tahoe. We have not taken the the Murano on the snow yet. Any suggestions? We have the stock tires... is that going to effect anything? |
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| simplesb |
In the non-snowing condition I think the Mo did great. I didn't really get a chance to test it through snowing and uncleared road conditions, although I did slide a few times. I also just realized what a great picture it would have been if I actually took a picture of the line of cars seating on I-80 with their headlights off and parked.:3:
Here is a great picture my girlfriend took while driving back. |
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| simplesb |
| Here is a couple from my condo window |
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| simplesb |
| Another while driving home |
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| simplesb |
| And to end my pictures, a nice ending to my drive home from work on Monday :claphead: |
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| mordel |
quote:
Originally posted by Dave N
I guess that all depends on when they fix my Murano. It's at Bancroft (Worcester) getting a new transfer case installed. If any of you folks venture west of the city, let me know :D
Dave
I bought my Mo at Bancroft in September of 03. Did you get yours there? What do you think of them? Also, have you seen the new Nissan location they are building in Auburn near the BJs? Should be awesome! I may take my car there the first week it opens for some service I'll make up just to see it. :) |
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| Dave N |
Yes, I bought my Murano at Bancroft. I was really impressed with the sales experience, but not as impressed with their service department - but they're trying to make it up to me.
The new location will put them in a much more convenient location to me, so I'm looking forward to February when they open. I wish I could have waited to send mine in for warranty work until the new place opened, but the transmission leak forced me to get it in now.
My office is moving to a new location, and my commute will change from taking the Pike every morning to taking 290 - so I'll be passing by the new location everyday. (You know how alcoholics are supposed to avoid bars - now I will know how they feel dealing with daily temptation :p )
I hope to see you around sometime
Dave |
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| mordel |
quote:
Originally posted by Dave N
The new location will put them in a much more convenient location to me, so I'm looking forward to February when they open. I wish I could have waited to send mine in for warranty work until the new place opened, but the transmission leak forced me to get it in now.
My office is moving to a new location, and my commute will change from taking the Pike every morning to taking 290 - so I'll be passing by the new location everyday. (You know how alcoholics are supposed to avoid bars - now I will know how they feel dealing with daily temptation :p )
If you know the Worcester area, I live on the other side of Park Ave, so I was only about 5 minutes away before. Which was nice and convenient. Unfortunately the new location makes my trip about 10 minutes longer. But when you're driving the Mo, you tend not to care so much about extra time. :) |
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| NatasG |
| How is the snow for you guys down in Worcester right now? I live just west of Boston and it is snowing like crazy here. I plan on going out with the Mo a little later to play... |
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| Gonzo |
Got some good snow this morning in Easter MA.... had to drive on I95 North to Lincoln... I had the entire left lane to myself. It was NOT down to bare pavement and I was traveling at 50MPH..... the MO felt fine but I tell you I could see the MO or any other car easily slipping away if a sharp maneuver or sudden braking was needed. Luckily traffice was moving and everyone was driving pretty good this morning on I95.
I wish the AWD light would turn on when the MO engages.. I'm curious when it does.. but then again its nice to get in the MO and just GO! :roadtrip: |
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| rjive |
Took the kids up to the snow last night. Just for a few hours so we can have a snow ball fight. Anyways, first trip with the Murano in the snow. Only one little shot for the night to post. Next weekend I am going up to Tahoe to shoot some stuff in the snow. I will have much better shots to post next week, but couldn't resist posting this shot!
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| Gonzo |
Aw.... look at the fun snow ball fight... and look how the MO is just playing cool in the background.... a face only a mother could love. :p
I just love that view of the MO... I think I'm gonna cry.... its all grown up! |
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| Kris |
And somebody said: "it never rains in California".....guess he had forgotten about snow!:D
Nice photos, beautiful landscape....... |
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