| soholingo |
I just bought my 2004, Super Black Mo on January 1st 2005, it has less than 300 miles, and its JUST what I wanted in a vehicle. I have the Premium Bose System, and the term Premium should be used loosely. That said the head unit is near perfect. I would only add MP3 capabilities, 4-5 volt signal outputs, and a 5+ band EQ. So that means the speakers and the amp must go.
I plan on driving my mo into the ground for the next 10 years so resale isn't so much of an issue, however I am going to keep my stock speakers and leave the wiring in place. I haven't purchased anything as of yet, but here is my plan...
1. Purchase a 4 channel PAC
2. Purchase a sub level control.
3. Purchase amps.
4. Purchase some sort of active crosover and parametric eq.
5. Upgrade the door speakers.
6. Install mid high range speakers into dash or kick panel.
7. Stealth sub install (so that no cargo space is lost.
8. Install SAT or Aux input in the radio.
9. Improve AM/FM reception.
Overall design goal is to have the system look and act completely stock and sound high end (not just better).
I have studied this forum and have a fairly good idea of where to locate eveything. Most of these items have already been covered. I am going to put the pieces together to form my own odyessy and hopefully have these often asked questions answered in this one thread.
I will post pictures and lest specifics on where and how much something cost and post links when possible...
Now the first step is a call to Crutchfield... :) |
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| special-k |
Welcome to the forum.
Regarding a stealth sub box, unfortunatley there don't see to be any on the market. JL Audio and MTX don't have anything for the Mo.
In another thread, I had mentioned my thoughts on building a stealth sub enclosure. I have since revised my plan...
Instead of doing it as I mentioned in the other thread, I'm thinking now the best approach would be the leave the tire where it is -- on the floor. Lose the 2" storage tray that sits between the tire and the floor panel. I am thinking of fabricating a fiberglass enclosure that will sit inside the opening of the spare wheel, flare it out over the wheel/tire, and have it come up to where it's almost touching the bottom of the floor panel. According to my (extremely rough) caculations there would be a little over 1 cu. foot of airspace. I would like to mount a single 12" sub (or a 10" if need be) facing up, and I would drill a matrix of holes in the floor panel, but not through the carpet, so as not to cause the floor panel to tend to want to rattle and shake. I have even thought of a rather inventive way to secure the enclusre and spare tire through the inside of the enclosure.
My main concern with this are, first, can it really be done as I envision it, with the limits of the real, physical world being what they are.. and second, how will it really perform. Will the airspace be as I roughly calculate it? I have also heard mixed reviews of the 12" shallow-mount Pioneer sub that I reference in the other thread. Some people say it's an awesome speaker, others say it lacks in the really low frequencies (like below 40Hz). I would be interestd to know if anyone has ever experienced one of these first-hand and how well it performs. There MAY be room to mount a standard 12" or maybe 10" sub using this method, that would have to be measured carefully.
Thoughts? |
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| soholingo |
I was thinking of building something similar...
But I need to sit for ideas first... |
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| soholingo |
Its been very busy around here so I haven't had a chance to do much with this, just been enjoying my Murano. And the system DEFINITELY needs an upgrade...
First step is to get the PAC... I had a hard time understanding what was needed. You need three pieces to get this to work correctly...
AMP-RCA $11.00
OEM-1 Factory Sound Interface $30.00
ADD-NIS2 $8.25
I ordered everything from Audiowarehouse.com, here is the link
Audiowarehouse PAC cables
This should save people a lot of time as it took me a quite a bit of time to figure out what pieces I needed. When I get the PAC I will post more information.
I am leaning towards putting in a single 6 channel amp, and I am interested in putting 3 1/2" - 5" speakers in the front dash... Don't know if its possible but if it is I will post it.
jay |
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| special-k |
quote:
Originally posted by soholingo
Its been very busy around here so I haven't had a chance to do much with this, just been enjoying my Murano. And the system DEFINITELY needs an upgrade...
First step is to get the PAC... I had a hard time understanding what was needed. You need three pieces to get this to work correctly...
AMP-RCA $11.00
OEM-1 Factory Sound Interface $30.00
ADD-NIS2 $8.25
I ordered everything from Audiowarehouse.com, here is the link
Audiowarehouse PAC cables
This should save people a lot of time as it took me a quite a bit of time to figure out what pieces I needed. When I get the PAC I will post more information.
I am leaning towards putting in a single 6 channel amp, and I am interested in putting 3 1/2" - 5" speakers in the front dash... Don't know if its possible but if it is I will post it.
jay
I'd be interested in what 6-channel amp you choose, and more importantly, where you are going to fit the beast.
You can fit 3" or 3 1/2" speakers in the dash, I don't think 5" will fit but you should be able to tell easily once you pop the covers off. |
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| special-k |
quote:
Originally posted by soholingo
I am thinking about these:
JL Audio e6450
Audio Bahn 6x75
Hmm.. not too bad. I had though about using the JL Audio slash series, the 300/4 for my cabin speakers, but I think I've decided on using two amps.
Planet Audio Amps
I'm thinking a BB75.4 for the cabin speakers and a BB100.2 for the subwoofer. |
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| GripperDon |
| I did a simple addition of the MTX 202. I ran the Bose sub woffer outputs into the high level inputs of the MTX and it's outputs to the two voice coils of the Bose sub. The improvement is amaizing. By the way the MTX has auto sense so You don't have to run a remote to turn it on. I got it for only 88.90 at Best buy. I was planing to do some speaker changes, but I don't think i need them now. The amp is small and tucks in at the sme location as the Bose but on the drivers side. Easy, Cheap and very cost effective. But it's not some real stomping total change. But very nice for my needs. |
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| dklanecky1 |
Grip, can you describe the improivement you feel gain from adding the mtx 202?
I also have been thinking about upgrading the speakers, but hesitate to make such a significant change without improving the power and this sounds like it maybe a reasonable alternative. |
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| GripperDon |
I think:
1. The reduced load on the Bose amp really helped it have more headroom and dynamics are better.
2. The base out of the Sub is easily trippled. I only run the gain on the MTX at about 1/2
3. Since the lower end is better I can up the Trebble and have a more balanced sound.
4. The rear door sound seems fuller.
These are naturally all subjective, not instrument readings, my days of having audio spectrum analizers are gone.
Hope this helps about the best I can do. |
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| soholingo |
Still waiting on the PAC... I have been shopping the amps, and nothing has struck me as a great bargain as of yet...
I am also still up in the air about how to do the speakers. I am thinking full range in the dash, mid bass in the front doors and full range in the rear doors.
So many options and its been years since I last bought a new stereo...
jay |
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| GripperDon |
Question or thoughts take your pick:
1. Do you think there is room for full range in the dash.
2. If full range are in the dash will the volume balance be upset between the front doors and the Dash as ther is not a balance control between those two only as a group and the rear doors.
Just houghts really. |
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| soholingo |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
Question or thoughts take your pick:
1. Do you think there is room for full range in the dash.
2. If full range are in the dash will the volume balance be upset between the front doors and the Dash as ther is not a balance control between those two only as a group and the rear doors.
Just houghts really.
Gripper,
The thought if I go with Full range in the dash, is that it will push the sound stage forward. If there was a real option to put them in the kick panel that's where the speakers would go. The best imaging I have ever heard in a car was a 73 corolla (or something similar) with 3 1/2 inch speakers in the kick panel, and the factory radio. I was completly stunned by the imaging. You could close your eyes and place each of the instruments precisely, vocals in themiddle, drums BEHIND vocal guitar and bass on the right, piano on the left... etc...
Extremely remarkable considering the age of the car and the lack of technology in the car...
1. I won't know until I crack open the dash opening...
2. I can get the balance through the amps and gain control....
Half the fun of doing these installs is the experimentation...
Jay |
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| GripperDon |
| Take a pict of the install it willbe very helpful, I may follow you up, Also info on the speaker selections, Thanks Don |
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| soholingo |
Nothing to take pictures of yet... I assure there will be plenty of pics...
Jay |
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| clarkne |
Anyone ever tried using the PAC OEM-2 and connecting it right at the amp under the rear passenger-side seat?
Here's my deal: I just got done swapping out all of the speakers (except the sub) with some Polk db 6500's.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-tZDask...asp?i=107DB6500
These are component speakers with separate tweeters. I put the tweeters up in the dash location in the front, and in the back doors I mounted the tweeters just in front of the door handle. The sound is WAY better, especially since I really like the sound of Polk speakers (I have the same ones in my other car, too).
The problem now is that, as you all know, the Bose amp can't really drive these speakers well, so I want to replace the amp. I know you can get the PAC OEM-1 and cables and hook things up behind the dash, run RCA cables to the back, etc. But PAC also makes the OEM-2 that just has bare wires. My thinking was I could connect these up at the amplifier in the back, splicing into the input wires running into the current Bose amp, running the RCA cables from the OEM-2 to the new amp, and then disconnecting the front and rear speaker wires from the Bose amp and connecting them to the new amp. I was planning to leave the subwoofer connected to the Bose amp, and assumed that with the old amp only driving the subwoofer I would probably get some performance boost there (I don't need a ton of bass, personally).
What I don't know is what the various colors of wires running into and out of the Bose amp are. Anyone know this, or can anyone tell me where I can find this out? Otherwise I'll have to experiment, which could take a considerable amount of time...
Thanks!
Norm Clark |
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| clarkne |
I'm not looking to install the AAI-NIS to the rear SAT input. I want to put in a new amplifier, splicing into the signal coming out of the head unit and into the Bose amp. I was hoping to use the OEM-2, which is pretty much the same as the OEM-1, but it doesn't have the plugs which I assume won't work where I'm going to put it. I want to put the OEM-2 just before the Bose amp, attach a different amp to the RCA plugs on the OEM-2, and then detach the speaker wires from the Bose amp and attach them to the new amp. Anyone done something like this? The main thing I'm trying to avoid is having to run new wires to the speakers, and RCA cables back to the amp. Otherwise, I could just install the OEM-1 behind the head unit and do a bunch of wiring.
Thanks for trying, Grip! :-)
Norm |
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| GripperDon |
What is a ". I was hoping to use the OEM-2, which is pretty much the same as the OEM-1'
GRIP :D |
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| clarkne |
Here's a link to the PAC Audio page that describes the OEM-1 & 2:
http://www.pac-audio.com/products/oem1.htm
You have to scroll down a bit on the page to find them. Basically, they turn a speaker-level signal into an RCA pre-amp one (and other signal enhancing). It makes it easier to add an amp, or switch the head unit, etc. |
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| GripperDon |
| Went there, read it, Got it (figuratively) Thanks GRIP:D |
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| special-k |
quote:
Originally posted by clarkne
I'm not looking to install the AAI-NIS to the rear SAT input. I want to put in a new amplifier, splicing into the signal coming out of the head unit and into the Bose amp. I was hoping to use the OEM-2, which is pretty much the same as the OEM-1, but it doesn't have the plugs which I assume won't work where I'm going to put it. I want to put the OEM-2 just before the Bose amp, attach a different amp to the RCA plugs on the OEM-2, and then detach the speaker wires from the Bose amp and attach them to the new amp. Anyone done something like this? The main thing I'm trying to avoid is having to run new wires to the speakers, and RCA cables back to the amp. Otherwise, I could just install the OEM-1 behind the head unit and do a bunch of wiring.
Thanks for trying, Grip! :-)
Norm
You could do basically what Grip did, just instead of taking the two sub channels and running them into the amp, take the 4 primary channels and run them from the Bose amp straight into high-level inputs on your aftermarket amp. No need for a PAC at all, since I would bet the high->low converstion the PAC does to give RCA outputs is probably no better than what a quality amplifier would do internally. |
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| GripperDon |
| I am sure happy with it the added headroom to the Bose amp by adding the second amp for the Sub woofer could be used with a 4 channel add on amp and drive sub and rears with the new amp and let the bose just laugh at the fronts and tweeters. GRIP :D |
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| clarkne |
I picked up a CD version of the Murano service manual from Ebay that shows all of the wiring info that I need, so I'm good to go now. I'm going to go ahead with the PAC unit rather than running the speaker-level inputs into the amp, mostly because the PAC OEM2 will allow me to tweak the level of the signal. That way I can minimize system noise. I'm using some high-quality RCA shielded cables from the PAC unit to the amp, so that will help even more. I decided to go with the Autobahn A4004T amp, since it's nice and small, has a built-in fan, and should drive my Polk speakers just fine.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-RIif3u...120&I=037A4004T
So thanks for all of the suggestions, folks. I'll try to post some pictures/details after I get everything installed (probably in two weeks).
Norm |
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| GripperDon |
| Good Luck. Post results. GRIP :D |
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| NatasG |
I have been thinking about doing what Grip did and use and amp I already have (Sony 50x2 at 4 ohms) to power the dual coils on the Bose sub. I have the power and ground wires that I pulled out of my Pathfinder but was wondering about another option that I seem to remember so I do not have to run the power from the battery. This amp is pretty wimpy and the acuracy for the little sub does not have to be perfect so I was wondering about using the trailer wiring power line that has been mentioned in another thread ( I recall) that runs right by the spare.
Anyone have any experience with this?
What would be the wire colors from that bundle of cables?
Also, anyone have any suggestions for an easy line to tap in the spare tire vacinity for the amp turn on?
Thanks for your input... |
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| GripperDon |
I was wondering about using the trailer wiring power line that has been mentioned in another thread ( I recall) that runs right by the spare.
Thant's what I did. Easier than using the rear lighter (power) connector. As per suggestion from a forum member. The trailer plug wire is at the rear on the cargo area near the tire well, located left side of the cargo area but still at the rear. Easy to find, and tap into. Just peek around you will find it. Can not remember the wire color but only one hot when the switch is on, that I do remember. (used a volt meter to check a test light would work also) My amp turns on and off automatically by detecting input from the Bose amp signals which I run into the high level inputs. Works like a champ and really helped the overall sound of the complete system. Truly. GRIP :D |
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| NatasG |
Thanks Grip.
Where did you mount your MTX amp?
Is it in the same position as the bose amp but on the left instead of the right?
How did you fasten it?
Any suggestions for my remote turn on that would be easy to get too since my amp is 6 years old and does not have that feature?
Thanks again... |
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| soholingo |
I have been incredibly busy and snow and lack of money for this haven't helped. Also no screaming deals on amplifiers. I still would prefer a 5-6 channel amp with a sub control...
Anyway, pics etc will be forth coming... |
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| GripperDon |
Is it in the same position as the bose amp but on the left instead of the right?
YES I mounted it with A piece of Urethane foam on its top and a bungee cord materials around and under the amp with the end sticking and secured after passing thru holes in the cross support over it. (Knots) This squeezes the amp into the very thick foam 1.5 inches for a shock mount.
Sorry I did not need auto on, but I do think there is a sign that comes back to the Bose amp. Do you have the wiring diagram form the service manual? If not, I'll try and find the page and post it for you . But I have a service man coming to put fix the Voom Sat for my home and MOpar coning to do the Tinted tails with so it may be a while.
I did post it here before in audio and electronics section we could both try a search to find the color of the wire going to the Bose that turns it on and you could use a tap off that wire it.
GRIP :D |
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| special-k |
RANDOM THOUGHT OF THE DAY:
:)
I had a "moment" the other day while looking at the Bose "sub". The retention bolt goes right through the middle. Obviously this is not a single, center-mounted driver. So I started wondering... has anyone else thought about whether the Bose "sub" is really a single DVC driver, or perhaps two independant drivers on opposite sides of the enclosure running 180-degrees out of phase? That would achieve the same frequency roll-off effect, no?
EDIT: I ask this becuase I have actually taken apart Bose computer subwoofers and seen similar things. AMAZING what the Bose engineers can do with very little air... I have seen computer subwoofers with two relatively tiny drivers firing directly at each other, with ported channels to increase the sound output. Pretty crazy. As much as I don't care for the sound of the MO's sub, for what it is, it's pretty good. |
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| GripperDon |
| I emailed them the question, HOWEVER I am really quite sure it's one driver and 2 voice coils, Even used to know it's dimension but can't seem to quickly find it. GRIP :D. |
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| GripperDon |
| They say a single 5.25 inch "RichBase" woofer in the rear, I must say that the improvement by utilizing a high level input added amp to drive just this unit made a very nice difference in the Whole System. GRIP :D |
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| njmo |
| Am I correct to assume that under the 2 front speaker grills on top of the dash are just two small tweeters? I have not pulled the covers as I am waiting on the tweeter mod but I assumed that there were larger speakers as well on top of the dash. |
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| special-k |
quote:
Originally posted by njmo
Am I correct to assume that under the 2 front speaker grills on top of the dash are just two small tweeters? I have not pulled the covers as I am waiting on the tweeter mod but I assumed that there were larger speakers as well on top of the dash.
If you have the Bose system -- yes, the tweeters are under there. If you have the non-Bose system, I don't think there's anything under there except maybe mounting brackets. |
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| special-k |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
They say a single 5.25 inch "RichBase" woofer in the rear, I must say that the improvement by utilizing a high level input added amp to drive just this unit made a very nice difference in the Whole System. GRIP :D
Good info...
I noticed in another post you said that your bass output nearly tripled, which is amazing to me -- I didn't think that Bose woofer had a whole lot more to offer. I have an old Rockford Fosgate amp in the closet -- I might just take your approach and offload the sub onto it, throw some capacitors on the tweeters and call it a day -- a great, very very low-cost upgrade that will hold me over until the inevitable complete system overhaul.
Say... has anyone thought about putting a couple capacitors on the front door speakers to maybe cut some of the lower mid-bass response out of it? It rattles and shakes the door panels as-is, and the speakers distort with all that bass. It would be interesting to know where the factory sub's frequency response starts and possible adjust the front door speakers to roll off around that same point.
Thoughts? |
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| soholingo |
I finally got a good deal on amps, and I am about to go purchase some speakers and maybe some wiring if I find a good deal.
2 audiobahn a2002t for $80 a piece. Debating on buying another amp for the sub or not, it depends on how much space I have under the seats...
I HOPE to have this installed in the next week or two...
Need to pry open the top speaker grills and take a look on the inside.
More to come... |
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| soholingo |
I have the speaker install of the left doors finished. Figuring out how to run wires, and how hard to pull so you don't break the clips has probably caused me 4 hours of work. I have also run the power cable to the back of the car. I have video some of it and will be posting pictures when the install is complete.
One thing I am REALLY bummed about is that I will not be able to mount 4" speakers in the dash. there is simply not enoug depth. So I am going to run the cable and either replace the tweeters or mount the 4" speakers in a kick panel area.
More later... |
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| larry1960 |
I did a fiberglass custom box in my spare tire. The box is the size of the wheel.The tire is still in but turned over. The amps I used are by directed electronics. I used a 600-4 and a mono 1200 watt sub amp. The amps are under the seat and you see nothing.I wanted the system to be stealth. The sub woofer is a pioneer 4 inch deep 10" inch sub. The front and rear are the pioneer armid fiber components I used the pac OEM1 input plug. I hooked it up the rear outputs at the old Bose amp. The system sounds great now. I have the factory Sirius radio installed, and I moved the box to the other side to fit my amps in. So far I am happy with the system.
I own a Mobile electronics store in NY in Westchester County. I was thinking of selling some of these boxes or installing this system for my fellow NMO owners Any interest??
[COLOR=royalblue] |
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| soholingo |
some pics of your install would be great. I am going for a stealth install also. I am finding I am afraid of snapping clips so I am moving REALLY slow on this install. Not to mention having to take the drivers side door off 3 times, once on a brain fart, a second time to reconnect the front light. But I must admit this car snaps togethers like legos... its beautiful...
oh and a picture of your sub box. I'm going to make a custom box also, but if yours is is better and at a good price I might go that route...
Jay |
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| soholingo |
Alright some feed back... on the installl
1. I have installed 2 audiobahn 2002t amps under my rear passenger seat. Plenty of clearance until you need to drop the seat for hauling then the seats don't collapse all the way.
2. I could NOT get the 4" speakers in the dash without a major modification. I may/may not still do it.
3. I unwired the tweeters and DEFINTELY need something else in the dash. The sound is too low in the car.
4. I left the bose sub connected to the bose amp, it provides some fill, but to be honest the door speakers appear to be handling just as much/more base than the bose unit. The bose 'subs' are crap 5" speakers.
I have some pics forth coming...
Jay |
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| biggun |
quote:
Am I correct to assume that under the 2 front speaker grills on top of the dash are just two small tweeters? I have not pulled the covers as I am waiting on the tweeter mod but I assumed that there were larger speakers as well on top of the dash.
njmo,
I beleive that all Mo's (Bose system or not) have tweeters, with the exception of the 05 (and possibly 06) S model. |
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