| Kris |
OK computer gurus. After reading some of your job description I realized that the MO Board is the best place to ask this question. Here it goes:
I purchased a Compaq computer 3 years ago. It was Athlon 1,700+, with 512MB memory, 80GB HDD. Since then I have upgraded to Athlon 2,400+, added video card, USB2 ports, 19” LCD flat display, 2nd HDD, DVD Burner. Problem is that most of my work is photo editing and it is pure and simple about number crunching. Unfortunately the good old Athlon 2,400+ is running out of breath, and memory wise – not always enough. I have been considering upgrade but decided it would be a waste of money. I need to build a new system. What I do know is that I need 2GB RAM, RIAD (2 x 160 most likely), USB2, network card, good video card (nothing fancy though), DVD R/W, memory card reader…..
The main task for the computer will be photo editing. I also do Internet surfing (I know, anything will do here), use Microsoft Office etc. My dilemma is: Pentium or Athlon FX (64 bits). Single processor o dual processor.
Pros? Cons? Do not worry about budget too much, though I will have to consider this too……….
PS. I wonder what it has to do with Murano? Oh, I know, there will be more Murano Pics!..... |
|
|
| special-k |
Athlon 64. Don't waste your money on the Athlon 64 FX. Just make sure the Athlon 64 you get is a socket939, not a socket754. The socket939 Athlon 64s have dual memory controllers, which gives you a big performance boost. Get two 1GB RAM modules and a good quality motherboard. I prefer ASUS or ABIT. Other than that... 2 x 160GB hard drives in RAID isn't a bad idea... if your data is important to you and you don't have another method of backup I'd suggest RAID 1 rather than RAID 0. Video card... get whatever you like if you don't have high 3D requirements. Nvidia and ATI both have great mid-level cards available. Memory card readers are easy to find, as are DVDRW drives.
If you would like further assistance feel free to ask here, or PM me. |
|
|
| GMTURBO43 |
RAID 1 (mirroring) is actually slower than a single disk as it makes 2 writes at the same time. I certainly wouldn't go RAID 0. With Serial ATA you probably won't see much of a performance hit doing RAID 1 in comparing it to your current machine.
As far as motherboards - I'd follow the above recommendation. Asus boards are very good.
Video card - I'd say at least 256MB. Your biggest performance for the buck is going to come from video memory and system memory. |
|
|
| special-k |
quote:
Originally posted by GMTURBO43
RAID 1 (mirroring) is actually slower than a single disk as it makes 2 writes at the same time. I certainly wouldn't go RAID 0. With Serial ATA you probably won't see much of a performance hit doing RAID 1 in comparing it to your current machine.
As far as motherboards - I'd follow the above recommendation. Asus boards are very good.
Video card - I'd say at least 256MB. Your biggest performance for the buck is going to come from video memory and system memory.
That's what hardware RAID controllers are for. The RAID chip on the motherboard takes the write operation from the operating system and sends it to both drives in parallel. No performance penalty, the "computer" isn't making 2 writes, it's issuing a single write as it normally would. The RAID controller just mirrors it to both channels. RAID 1 also has the benfit of being able to do reads from both drives, giving you faster read performance.
RAID 0 is just flat-out dangerous...
If he's not going to be doing any 3D gaming then he won't see any difference between a mid-line graphics card and a high-end card. The high framebuffer memory only helps for 3D rendering or INCREDIBLY huge displays, neither of which he mentioned being interested in... |
|
|
| Kris |
quote:
Originally posted by special-k
That's what hardware RAID controllers are for. The RAID chip on the motherboard takes the write operation from the operating system and sends it to both drives in parallel. No performance penalty, the "computer" isn't making 2 writes, it's issuing a single write as it normally would. The RAID controller just mirrors it to both channels. RAID 1 also has the benfit of being able to do reads from both drives, giving you faster read performance.
RAID 0 is just flat-out dangerous...
If he's not going to be doing any 3D gaming then he won't see any difference between a mid-line graphics card and a high-end card. The high framebuffer memory only helps for 3D rendering or INCREDIBLY huge displays, neither of which he mentioned being interested in...
special-k,
you have summarized it perfectly. I might go to a faster 10,000 RPM HDD's in RAID 1 configuration and get an extra deep storage HDD - 250 GB for back up, mass storage. Would you think this is a viable option? I agree with video card, I am not into gaming so the latest high end graphics cards would be a waste of resources.... |
|
|
| special-k |
quote:
Originally posted by Kris
special-k,
you have summarized it perfectly. I might go to a faster 10,000 RPM HDD's in RAID 1 configuration and get an extra deep storage HDD - 250 GB for back up, mass storage. Would you think this is a viable option? I agree with video card, I am not into gaming so the latest high end graphics cards would be a waste of resources....
By the way... GMTURBO43, I just re-read my post and realized it came off a little a$$hole-ish. I didn't mean to come across that way, sorry...
Kris
You won't find a 10,000RPM SerialATA drive in anything bigger than say... 72GB or so off the top of my head. Not necessary for your situation anyway. I would go with a pair of 250GB or 300GB SATA drives, 7,200RPM. Maxtor has a couple drives in those capacities with 16MB caches, which is NICE, but not really necessary. A 8MB cache like you'll find on other Maxtors and competing drives will be fine as well. Run them in RAID 1 off the motherboard SATA RAID chip. An additional hard drive would be a great idea for deep storage/backups/archival. Get a nice external FireWire/USB2 drive so you can take your data with you and connect to someone else's computer if you want. If you need help picking out a mobo, let me know. I can help you configure the system if you want. I'd suggest a nice mainstream graphics card like a GeForce 6600GT. That will give you great flexibility (including multi-monitor if you wish) and solid gaming performance should you get the urge to fire up Doom3. :) Get some high-quality RAM, DDR2 is a little trickier to configure than DDR, as the latencies are rated differently. I'm a Corsair guy myself, but everyone has thier own preferences (Kingston, Corsair, Crucial, OCZ, etc.) |
|
|
| ericschiffli |
I do alot of computer upgrades for friends/family (so much that I am now very picky of what upgrades I'll do). From what you described I would first upgrade your RAM to at least 1Gb. For photo manipulation this should be the biggest bang for the buck. However you sould also take a good look at the stuff that is running in the background on your machine.
The last fix I did was on a Dell 2.4 Ghz machine with 256mb RAM. The system ran very, very slow, not because of lack of resources, but because of all the spyware, adware, and malware that was running in the background. Long story short, I ended up reinstalling Windows XP from the ground up, installed all of the apps (Windows Works, Word, Outlook, Quicken, etc..) and restored the data. Now the system works great and the owner has no need to upgrade.
Take a good look at what is running on your system. It sometimes does a world of good just to backup your data, reformat the hard drives, and reinstall the OS from scratch. The perfomance gains can be increadable. |
|
|
| GripperDon |
| I use SpyBot Sd what do you think of it. |
|
|
| special-k |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
I use SpyBot Sd what do you think of it.
A good AntiVirus scanner is a must, and a combination of SpyBot S&D + AdAware seems to beat even the "best" commercial solutions. |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
Adaware SE seems to be the best at finding nasties. Pest Patrol is a very good pay-for antispyware. I use Adaware at least 4 times per week on client's machines at work. Pest Patrol is on my home machine, it actively looks for keyloggers and memory resident nasties.
my 2 cents on hardware.....
You need to go to Tom's www.tomshardware.com and take a look at the rendering speeds for CPUs/ram and even chipsets on motherboards.
Chipsets control dual memory pipes.
Everyone has their own opinions on puters but benchmarks don't have opinions.
www.pcstats.com is also a very good place to go.
If you see a certain mobo you like with a certain chipset that has struck your fancy, google it for a review and you will have choices of dozens of sites.
Corsair is also my fave, I just purchased a twinx cl2 2-2-2 set last night.
I am a gamer......gamers demand the highest quality and fastest hardware obtainable, and, drive the high end hardware market--for PCs. A lot of us gamers do a lot of research, sometimes daily, just to keep an eye out for things like chipset or video drivers that will speed things up, even if just a tiny bit more.
Asus is also my fave for mobos.
Like you, AMD is my choice of processor. The 939 series is definetly the way to go but will be quite expensive. FX55's go for $850! :eek:
I also concur on the ddr ram.
I am going for a BFG 6800 GT as it clocks right up there with most 6800 ultra's for 150-200 bucks less....but....you said you aren't a gamer so I also concur with the 6600. But, I have seen GFX cards made for video editing that factor the price of gaming cards---easily surpassing $5000. They don't game worth a flip but ran the socks off the best gamer cards when it came to editing.
How much you use your machine just for editing and whether you are editing pictures or video makes a huge difference in what GFX card you are going to need. Matrox is well know for picture editing but it's best PCIe card looks mainly like a gamer card to me with dual 400Mhz ramdacs--and actually less resolution than the nvidia 6600 mentioned earlier.
Itz a tuffy for sure when it comes to the GFX card.
Read, read, read. Study the benchmarks, search for reviews.
Good luck! |
|
|
| special-k |
quote:
Originally posted by mgthe3
...Chipsets control dual memory pipes.
...except in the case of the Athlon 64-based systems. The Athlon 64 and its variants have on-chip memory controllers, chipset has nothing to do with it. Socket754-based Athlon 64s have single memory controllers, Socket939-based Athlon 64s have dual memory controllers.
quote:
The 939 series is definetly the way to go but will be quite expensive. FX55's go for $850! :eek:
Athlon 64s are now available in Socket939 that are not FX chips. For instance, you can get a Athlon 64 3000+ based on the 90nm Winchester core for $153 at NewEgg.com.
quote:
But, I have seen GFX cards made for video editing that factor the price of gaming cards---easily surpassing $5000. They don't game worth a flip but ran the socks off the best gamer cards when it came to editing.
Careful... only certain applications (like AutoCAD) will ever see an improvement with one of these cards. It's a very niche market. Your average Photoshop stuff isn't going to change at all since the calculations are done by the system CPU. |
|
|
| Kris |
Thanks guys! A lot of good information. I am convinced now to go with RAID 1 SATA. Probably 2 x 200 GB and external USB2 HDD for as a back up solution.
One more question – what would be advantage of going to dual processor system? Any real gains for photo (still pictures) editing? |
|
|
| special-k |
quote:
Originally posted by Kris
Thanks guys! A lot of good information. I am convinced now to go with RAID 1 SATA. Probably 2 x 200 GB and external USB back up solution.
One more question – what would be advantage of going to dual processor system? Any real gains for photo (still pictures) editing?
Newer versions of photoshop can take advantege of dual processor systems, especially the really computuationally-intensive transforms and effects and such. If you're not doing anything super-fancy, I wouldn't bother. You'll spend a lot of extra money and limit your choices quite a bit if you go dual processor. A screamin' fast single-processor machine should work just fine for you. I assume you don't do heavy multitasking like letting Photoshop crunch on an image doing some crazy transfom or effect that takes 20 minutes to compute while surfing the web and watching a movie all at the same time. :) |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
oh dear.....opinions....
But, I stand corrected on memory pipes, it is the AGP data and HDD data that chipsets have the most to do with.
The quadro FX 4000 is for video editing.
A 754 3400+ is faster than a 939 3500 winchester for less money and more power, even more than the fastest pentium.
The 3700 is $435 and only marginally faster than the 3400--certainly not double. You have to step up to the 4000 to gain significant rewards in processing speed and that is almost double again what the 3700 price is and close to the fastest-FX55's price.
Clawhammer rules, WOOT!
:) |
|
|
| special-k |
As a follow-up.... I use a dual-processor machine at work because I routinely have a ton of programs open and am doing 10 different thing at any given time. :) I also have dual 21.3" LCD monitors so I can actually see what I'm doing. Right now I have 17 programs open -- no joke.
At home I have a single-processor machine with a single 19" LCD. I do photo and video editing on my home machine and never have problems. |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
yes, dual procs are used for multiple threaded tasking--mainly for servers. Most of my servers at work run dual xeons, I work for the Gov--they are cheap.
I don't have the funds for a decent LCD at home so I struggle on with my 21" CRT. Both of my kids have 21" CRT's---I had a lead on them for $50. |
|
|
| Kris |
Thanks everybody for wealth of information. It really helped me a lot. I have a clear picture of a new computer now.
Thanks all once more…
:) |
|
|
| GMTURBO43 |
Oh yeah - don't worry about coming across as an a$$. Working in this field it is the norm - even if you don't mean to be.
;) |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
I just built my new system over the past few days.
Scorpio Raidmax case
420 watt PSU
Asus 8NE delux mobo
AMD 3400+ proc
1 gig Corsair twinX ram
BFG 6800 GT 256M graphics card
1 sata 160G drive
1 120G usb drive
cd/dvd burner
It's a screamer, I'm lovin it.
:D |
|
|
| Eric L. |
Another good site to check out:
Anandtech |
|
|
| jaak |
My latest PC looks like this:
All it's used for is Music, Videos, TV, HDTV, PVR, Pictures on my Samsung HD set. No monitor and a wireless keyboard and mouse that only seems to get used for configuration changes.
Middle of the road performance, 3 Gig P4 HT, on an ASUS P5GD1 with an ASUS (ATI) AX 600XT and right now, a SATA 200 gig drive, but the motherboard gives me what I want. Raid capability, PCI Express and S/PIF out to my Yamaha receiver.
I could buy better, but it's adequate. I think I'll want the Raid capability when I expand disk capacity. Nothing on this machine that's critical data...
It did bump the XBox out of it's home. |
|
|
| dklanecky1 |
Jaak, You wouldn't happen to be feeding the video signal through the DVI to a Samsung DLP would you? How's the cooling capability compared to the fan noise?
I've assembled a few PC's and this is my next project.
I'm very close to building one, but hestitate on the OS and on the video card(s) and the software for the HD / OTA tuner video card. |
|
|
| Kris |
| OK geeks, how this spec looks like. Any comments, suggestions.....am I on the right track... |
|
|
| Eric L. |
| Looks like a nice system to me. Make sure you get a nice case to cool all those big boys. |
|
|
| GripperDon |
I have the DELL XPS Series 4 with the Samsung Syncmaster 191T
1 Gig RAM and 2x250GIG RAID
Processors: Offers the highest Intel® Processors available including Intel P4 Processor with HT Technology Extreme Edition and the New Intel 925XE Express chipset that supports both 800 MHz and 1066MHz Front-side bus.
LOVE IT! BUT YOUR'S LOOKS LIKE MORE GO FOR THE DOUGH!!! |
|
|
| jaak |
I wanted something to ignore for a few years, but didn't want to max out on technology for no real benefit. I liked the Motherboard, 'cause it gives me the S/PDIF out as well as RAID capability with SATA drives.
Yes, I'm running DVI to my Samsung. But it's rear projection. I couldn't make up my mind when I bought it, 'cause plasma was still falling in price, and DLP was still fairly new. I love the DLP Samsungs, and it may be what I get next. This TV will be relegated to the basement for my daughter, in a year or so, when I go get what I really want.
Fans? Two on the case, one on the Video card, and the CPU of course.
Most of the time, the case fans are what I hear. When everything's off, I hear them, otherwise I don't notice. I'd like them to be just a little bit quieter. The CPU fan isn't bad unless I'm watching an HD program, as that's when it's busiest. The video card you can tweak the fan settings on. When it boots, you can't miss it, but in operation, it's quiet.
I'm considering making some ductwork so the CPU is pulling in fresh air, and not recirculating air in the case. That will drive the fan speed down. I did that on my desktop and the difference was huge.
I noticed my HP and Compaq PC's are designed that way already.
quote:
Originally posted by dklanecky1
Jaak, You wouldn't happen to be feeding the video signal through the DVI to a Samsung DLP would you? How's the cooling capability compared to the fan noise?
I've assembled a few PC's and this is my next project.
I'm very close to building one, but hestitate on the OS and on the video card(s) and the software for the HD / OTA tuner video card.
Hauppage has a dual tuner for PCI bus that runs in Media Center Edition. That and the HDTV Wonder from ATI makes a nice system. There are other systems as well. I was playing around with Beyond TV which I quite liked, but I got the XP MCE 2005 free, 'cause my wife's on the Microsoft Developer's Network and has access to it.
(OK, it's not really free, 'cause she has to subscribe... but she would anyway.)
With Beyond TV I was walking around the house with my iPaq playing live TV through WiFi to the embedded web server. Pretty slick.
Never thought I'd be buying a UHF TV antenna in 2005. It's on order for the HDTV Wonder. With it, I'll get all the US networks, as well as Canadian ones, as I'm about 60 miles from Buffalo, across Lake Ontario. Best path for RF propogation, is across water! No trees or buildings to interfere, although sometimes atmospheric conditions can make a mess of things.
So it was a good balance of performance vs. price. I will work on making it just a bit quieter though. It's not bad, but I know I can make it better. |
|
|
| GripperDon |
JAAK I have the Samsung rear projection for the living room, DLP Model #HNL567W it's DVi all the way great pic. I built the speakers into the wall a 6.1 system. Tantulus version. We may have the same model!
It's great I currently have VOOM and I thought it was 37 HD channels but went and counted with the loca lHD it now up to 43. But it looks like VOOM may go away being bought by ECHOstar. :(
Igot 802.11G wifi from the computerr in the office to the living room also.
Small world. |
|
|
| dklanecky1 |
| Don, that's pretty amazing. I'm running the same generation of Samsung DLP, but mines the HLN437WX/AA. I'm feeding it DVD's though the Samsung HD-841 with the DVI input. The DVD picture quality is simply amazing. I'm still with Direct TV for the HD service as I'm a bit worried about VOOM's survivabilty. |
|
|
| GripperDon |
Un fortunately I think you are right regarding VOOM. I fired them off a email and hope to hear from the Soon. I still have all my DirectTV HD equipment so I guess I can put it back up and resign if I need to.
DLP is a great combo of price performance etc. Nice and Bright, Good contrast, etc. My modded X-Box looks great on it also. :D |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
Nice system.
Jaac, it would surprise me if you didn't have something like you have= Kewel.
A ducted solution for cooling is nice isn't it? I have noticed most of my new servers doing just that. Have you seen the heat pipe towers for cpu heat sinks? They run within a degree or two of water cooling. If you ducted one of those I imagine you could go reeeeeal slow on your fan.
In regards to fan noise....
My new system has a 80mm side fan on the left cover (of course) for ambient air injection, two 80's for exhaust. It's pretty quiet, the CD drive spinning up is twice as loud. I think Kris's mobo will have the "cool n quiet" technology as mine does--spools up when proc does. According to Asus Probe, my new proc runs at around 98F and ambient air temp in the case is 82F. This is a big differance from my old AMD 2100--it runs at 118 idle---135 during gaming.
My last system had a 120mm side fan that I put on there, now that sucker was loud! But, since I used my system for gaming, it didn't bother me. That and I am used to fans making a chorus from server rooms and mainframe floors.
But I can see the point of having very quiet systems running in our video entertainment rooms. |
|
|
| GripperDon |
| My Dell XPS has what I am sure yours does, temp sensors that regulate fan speed across the cooling coil from the heat pipes on the CPU. I can sure tell when I am running bg spread sheets. it roars but when just MO boarding it's quite. |
|
|
| jaak |
It's interesting all the cooling solutions. That's one place where I'd knock my case, is the fans on the back. They've got the small ones (I forget what size, but too small) so they have to spin high rpms to push air. My PS has a nice big fan in it, so that helps.
It's not loud, it's just that I know I could make it quieter. I only notice it when I walk into the room and all's quiet. Right now, it masks the drive, just, so I'm being picky. After a while, I'll probably forget about it!
Just picked up my 8 bay bowtie UHF antenna for my PC. Never thought I'd be saying that! (For HD OTA reception.) |
|
|
| Eric L. |
| Another solution would be to replace the fan on your CPU heatsink with a more quiet one if you won't be putting a heavy load on the CPU that often. |
|
|
| milgrad |
advice....this is the system I am looking at...what do you think?
Quantity Item Description Unit Price Extension
3.2 HT/T INTEL 3.4GHZ 800 BUS CPU&FAN 285.00
D915GEVL INTEL D915GEVL LAN SND VID SAT 121.00
CAS ANT 2650 ANTEC SLK2650BQE BLACK MINI 60.00 60.00
512 DDR2/533 KINGSTON 512MB DDR2/533 117.00
MAX 200GS MAXTOR 200GB 8MB 7200 SATA 120.00
SAM DVD-RW SAMSUNG 16X DVD-RW BLACK 66.00
SAM SAMSUNG 52X CD ROM 18.00
9-1 SMART MEDIA READER 3.5 20.00
EVGA PCIE 6200 GEFORCE PCX 6200 128MB DDR 115.00 |
|
|
| GripperDon |
| I am not an exper but one of the sons is and he thinks a good bang for the BUCK. :D |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
That's a good one, but I would get a gig of ram.
The price on the DVD burner is a lil steep.
The intel 915 EVL is a top notch industrial mobo and ur gettin that at a dam good price.
EVGA is a good name, they come overclocked as well.
All this is going in a mini case, you may also want to look into cooling options for down the road.
Eric,
I was suggesting that jaak get :
http://www.thermaltake.com/coolers/...on/cl-p0114.htm
At 16db it is the quietest solution with the most efficiency.
I am seriously considering one.
His exhaust fans seem to be the gotcha.
I suggest a 120 mm that is temp adjustable, those itty bitty ones have to spin up quite a bit to move any air. |
|
|
| Kris |
mgthe3
I like your solution for CPU cooling.......
One more thing to consider - HDD's. They can be noisy. There are some quiet HDD’s. What also helps is to suspend them on rubber inside the enclosure. |
|
|
| milgrad |
| thanks ...I am getting a gig of ram...two 512 meg chips...I thought I listed that....What other DVD drives do you recommend...I couldn't find a price too much lower...It is the new format DVD burner I guess...dual layer burner |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
Actually, I guess that might not be bad for dual layer. I got my samsung dvd/cd burner for $39---probably not the dual layer though.
It was kinda hard deducing the proper specs for ur system with the corp logistics jargon, but, there isn't any way you could get 2- ddr2 533 1/2 gig sticks for $117, maybe one.
With such other nice specs you may want to purchase your ram individually to get not only the best price, but the best quality. Matching your ram to your CPU and/or your chipset is very important. Kingston does make quality ram, but you will pay a premium for it. The cheapest I found for Corsair Twin2X 1 gig kit (THE best 533 ddr2 IMHO) was $390--ddr2 memory ain't cheap, that's for sure.
Something interesting:
I have a friend that is a fiend for benchmarking stuff and he builds about every 3 to 4 weeks for someone, if not trading out something on his rig to top the current posters at a few 0 clocking sites.
He let me know that 1 gig is the sweet spot with XP, more makes it slower, less does the same thing of course due to paging. |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
| Believe it or not, this is an overclocked very fast system: |
|
|
| Kris |
quote:
Originally posted by mgthe3
1 gig is the sweet spot with XP, more makes it slower, less does the same thing of course due to paging.
Wow, that's interesting information! So no point going above 1G, am I right? |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
Only if you are going to do huge graphics applications, like video editing, sure, more than a gig would be good. Having massive numbers of threads going is a reason too---as in servers.
But just churning through files less than, I'd say, 600 megs, then No, you wouldn't need more than a gig. |
|
|
| GripperDon |
| mgthe3 I think you computer picture is really neat, I bet every youngster wants one of those. Is it yours, where does it come from, etc. Please tell me more. My the way I use 1gig of ram and think that is the right amount also. :D |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
Don, that was a one off, custom made rig.
It was made from the ammo box that it appears to be.
I think I got the pic from www.pimprig.com. |
|
|
| GripperDon |
ye Gads, where was this stuff when I was a Kid? Oh yea Schottsky had not even invented the transistor until I got out of high school.
Drats born 70 years too Soon. :eek: |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
hehe
Case modding became popular when LAN parties started, about 5 years ago. There is a whole industry built around modding cases now.
I have had 3 LAN parties. Yes, I am the oldest one in the crowd.
Wifey doesn't care for them or the folks who attend so I haven't thrown any in a while. At the last one I had 8 folks and their systems over for beer, snacks and lots of hard gaming. It was a lot of fun. It is a lot different when you have zero ping, and, you can holler at the guy who just cheap shotted you instead of whinning in the console online. "ya rat bastid!" LOL
Although I am 48, I still have a lot of fun gaming. I have good friends all over the world I have met while gaming online. One from England has come to stay a week with my family, twice. I crank up servers so me, my two boys and two of my nephews can play. My 14 year old has surpassed me in skill in a few games, but I still own on Quake 3. And, I think you may be surprised to know how much more devious and cunning us old timers are than the youngsters...it is very telling in games of strategy.
:D |
|
|
| GripperDon |
| You can X-Box game in my MO anytime :) |
|
|
| Eric L. |
I can only imagine what the video games will be like in 22 years when I'm 48! :D
If I had the NAV, I would definitely install an xbox in the Murano. Grrrrr to no nav. |
|
|
| GripperDon |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric L.
I can only imagine what the video games will be like in 22 years when I'm 48! :D
If I had the NAV, I would definitely install an xbox in the Murano. Grrrrr to no nav.
Time to Trade??? :D |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
Eric, I imagine it will be like the suits they wore in lawnmower man, the VR suits--that will be fab.
Don, real gamers scoff at Xboxes and PS2's. Ain't nothin as good as a keyboard and a mouse. But my 11 yr old would be happy to play on it.
:D |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
http://www.own-age.com/vids/mirrors.aspx?id=660
Click the top download link. Hopefully you have winrar. If not, maybe XP can deal with it. I have played own-age, he's a pretty nice guy but kicks butt. You will have to install Xvid, it should be in the rar archive. This video is a kind of memorial for Quake 3, most of it is in slow motion, when you get dizzy, that's real time. You may have to watch it 3 or more times to pick up on just how freakin skilled these guys are. Also, own-age says that this vid consumed 100's of gigs of hard drive and 8 months to edit.
Please download and enjoy.
:) |
|
|
| GripperDon |
| Went there mgthe3 But kind of got lost, what is the name of the game/file I should download. Thanks Don |
|
|
| zebelkhan |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
Went there mgthe3 But kind of got lost, what is the name of the game/file I should download. Thanks Don
Went there and got lost too! Maybe I am just too old for it....:3: |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
look under the section Download Info. Bottom right.
Click where it says "Click here for the download page".
When you get there, click the top mirror at filefront.com.
It's 258 megs but worth it.
Try this if that doesn't work: http://www.own-age.com/vids/mirrors...0&dlmirror=3805
The vid is called annihilation. |
|
|
| jaak |
quote:
Originally posted by mgthe3
That's a good one, but I would get a gig of ram.
The price on the DVD burner is a lil steep.
The intel 915 EVL is a top notch industrial mobo and ur gettin that at a dam good price.
EVGA is a good name, they come overclocked as well.
All this is going in a mini case, you may also want to look into cooling options for down the road.
Eric,
I was suggesting that jaak get :
http://www.thermaltake.com/coolers/...on/cl-p0114.htm
At 16db it is the quietest solution with the most efficiency.
I am seriously considering one.
His exhaust fans seem to be the gotcha.
I suggest a 120 mm that is temp adjustable, those itty bitty ones have to spin up quite a bit to move any air.
yeah, dead on... Little fans are not a good solution, never have been.
The CPU fan is going to be quiet if I can get cool air to it, instead of recirculating case air. Maybe I'll get a cold air intake for a Murano with the K&N filter on the air and put it on the cpu...
But seriously, before I drop cash on someone else's solution, I think I'll just put together a duct to pull air from the back and replace one of the little noise makers. The other one needs to be speed adjusted or replaced with something that pushes air quietly.
Eric, the CPU fan's not noisy most of the time, just under load when it can't seem to get rid of the heat. So ducting external air should make it happy.
Even when I suspend the box, the little fan's are still cranking away. No temperature sensitive speed management it seems. |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
jaak, I assume you have the Lascala LC03, that is the pic you showed right?
http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-229-1.htm
It won the Hardcore award in that review. I only see one fan in the rear of the case. They say it is a 3 pinner so it should be able to be thermally controlled by your mobo.
I looked at the case and didn't see where you could put one of those low speed 120's besides whacking the very pretty case. :(
I agree with the review though, that is most definitly the most beautiful HTPC case there is, and ultra cool with a remote.
The only thing else I could think of is your ducting solution and a 120 equipped PSU, those are very low noise as well, and, would be right beside your CPU to help exhaust it's heat and doubletime as a case cooler.
How's this?
http://www.globalwin.com.tw/products/power/eleel.html
I like the fact that it can control your other case fan and the neat-O cool down feature. Also, tape off the vent holes on the right side (from the front) so you get good cross flow ventilation, that could be a source of not only sound but a reduction of ambient air intake being wasted as it flows directly into the PSU instead of across your vid card and mobo.
Just tryin to help!
:) |
|
|
| GripperDon |
| Have you all seen the LIGHT SCRIBE, CD / DVD writer that also does a laser etch for labeling the disk all in one unit ? Neato :) |
|
|
| GripperDon |
| Not bad have you seen my XPS by Dell? |
|
|
| GripperDon |
| Here it is opened upp, This is cool. Man I love this bugger.! :D |
|
|
| milgrad |
| Gripper: The Dell case is very cool....There are so many choices when you are custom building a system....I just wanted to get a case that was a little different...From all the reviews I read I guess it is one of the quietest cases and has the best airflow for keeping everything cool |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
Don, cool case by Dell.
milgrad, although this was one of my first choices when I was building mine, I had second thoughts when I saw one in person. (my barebones vendor had either the case I chose or the Tsunami)
It was at Fry's. The cabnet is textured flat black, (in the black you are showing) it is an abrasive texture which lends itself to nail marks inherently made when you open the front panel--the case I saw was covered in nail marks, I made one just to see if what I was seeing was what it was--yep, sure was. I know that is kinda picky, but it was the only thing I saw that I didn't like. If you are choosing TT for a case the Soprano series is virtually the same case but with a gloss appearance--not marked up easily. If I had to choose again and I was getting the case seperate (I ordered a barebones off Ebay) I guess I would choose the XaserII because of it's nice display and huge front intake vents, and, it has been a favorite of builders for a while now.
But....I am a gamer. If you notice, the side fan is located more towards the bottom on the XaserII, that is for fresh air to the vid card. The Tsunami and the Soprano locate the side fan perfectly over the standard CPU location. That makes it obvious that the cases are designed for two entirely different crowds.
But, to each, their own. That's why I like cases with style, like the MO, everyone wants something unique and different.
:) |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
| the little lenses above and below the Z badge on the front are lit up by dim red leds indicating hard drive activity....not too gaudy, but a little flashy for me, I will have to get used to it. My vid card has blue led fans which light the case blue below it and the side fan is a amber shade which lights the rest, it'sa neat combo at night. |
|
|
| GripperDon |
Cool on the inside and outside and hot to the Display. Things aare a movin. I have a feeling the the MiniMac and the the new combined MAC and Display is going to slowly have an impact on the PC scene. Retail indivuals ability to modify and swap byt start to scale everything down in size. All this will be good news for us with limited space and wanting to put things into vehicles.
I am talking to GENERATOR about a display adapter to the NAV screen from a MiniIMac. I would love to see that little disk slot in my Glove Box. :) |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
I put in a creative audigy 2 ZS last night, the on board sound was drivin me batty.
WOW, huge difference. While I was tunin her up one of my sons came in and I showed him the high end limits, he ran out of the room holding his ears--brilliance doesn't come close to the description of the sparkling highs this card has-- I guess having Klipsch speakers helps too.
;)
Be carefull specin that card out to buy....there is a model called audigy 2 VAR or Value that is not even the same thing.
This card outputs 192k and in tests is rated #1, the VAR or Value one is 96k. I got mine off ebay for $60, it is an oem Dell card. I got tired of the bidding wars and did a buy it now--but if you hang in there you can get it for ~45-50. It retails over 100. |
|
|
| jaak |
That's the card I use for my guitar work... It's an awesome deal.
When using guitar softare to emulate amps, speakers, effects, and the miking off them and do it live, you need a card with very low latentcy. That's my baby....
Now how many people have a 1/4 phone jack on the front of their PC to plug in their Les Paul?
If you're curious, check out http://www.ni-guitar-rig.com/ |
|
|
| jaak |
quote:
Originally posted by mgthe3
jaak, I assume you have the Lascala LC03, that is the pic you showed right?
http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-229-1.htm
It won the Hardcore award in that review. I only see one fan in the rear of the case. They say it is a 3 pinner so it should be able to be thermally controlled by your mobo.
I looked at the case and didn't see where you could put one of those low speed 120's besides whacking the very pretty case. :(
I agree with the review though, that is most definitly the most beautiful HTPC case there is, and ultra cool with a remote.
The only thing else I could think of is your ducting solution and a 120 equipped PSU, those are very low noise as well, and, would be right beside your CPU to help exhaust it's heat and doubletime as a case cooler.
How's this?
http://www.globalwin.com.tw/products/power/eleel.html
I like the fact that it can control your other case fan and the neat-O cool down feature. Also, tape off the vent holes on the right side (from the front) so you get good cross flow ventilation, that could be a source of not only sound but a reduction of ambient air intake being wasted as it flows directly into the PSU instead of across your vid card and mobo.
Just tryin to help!
:)
Thanks!!!!
The case has been updated and now has two fans at the back, but most of the reviews you find on line will show only one. So I'm thinking I'll pull one and use the other hole for the duct for the CPU fan.
Yes, they're three pin fans and the motherboard supports it, but it only seems to measure the fan speed, not control it, like it does for the CPU fan. I've wondered about slaving the other fans off the CPU fan's control. Have to look at it with a scope at some point to see how it's done.
Interesting idea with the tape... I have a PS that has a nice big fan, so that helps too.
I was thinking of putting clear lexan over the top and cardboard sides that simulate the case sides... Steal one of my wife's incense sticks and let the smoke tell me the air flow path, so I can really see what's happening.
Great idea, I'll put it on my list of things to do!!! (Actually it's a book now.):D |
|
|
| jaak |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
Here it is opened upp, This is cool. Man I love this bugger.! :D
Nice design except it's got those small fans like my HTPC, which make it sound like it's coming in for a landing...
No one cares on server cases, until they have to sit on your desktop. You can hear the white noise level go down when you shut them off. I keep my two HP servers in the laundry room. I can't remember the last time I actually did anything directly on them, as Windows Terminal Server is really good! |
|
|
| jaak |
quote:
Originally posted by mgthe3
the little lenses above and below the Z badge on the front are lit up by dim red leds indicating hard drive activity....not too gaudy, but a little flashy for me, I will have to get used to it. My vid card has blue led fans which light the case blue below it and the side fan is a amber shade which lights the rest, it'sa neat combo at night.
It's fun to hot rod a case, but when I see the plastic on the side, it just reminds me how that destroys the cases ability to keep the internal RF noise down. But it looks cool. Left half of the brain fighting the right half again.
My HTPC has the blue lights on the vid card as well. Must be an ATI thing... (ATI OEM'd to the long list of other names it sells under.) |
|
|
| Kris |
Hm, and I wasn't sure if i could ask computer question..........this thread still lives on................
We are definitely geeks..............:D
Keep the electrons moving... |
|
|
| Eric L. |
| Ok I admit it, my PC at home has a bunch of unnecessary LEDs on it as well. :) |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
uhhhh jaak?
My vid has an NV40 GPU, it is a BFG6800gt. I guess blue lights are the rage now--VPU or GPU.
:D
And yes, I did dig around for a case like yours with two fans and couldn't locate one. You must have a groovey very new model.
I did think about RFI, but, I have operated towers without covers in the craziest places with no problems. |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
hey jaak, have you ever wondered what a nice regulated peltier would do for you?
I have long waited for a decent peltier setup that was quiet. |
|
|
| jaak |
Ahh, yes blue LED's must be all the rage.. Well Rage on ATI, I'm not sure what Nvidia calls it. (joke) But I know who's equipment both companies use to make sure it works!!!:D It costs around a 1/5 to 1/4 of a million to tear apart a PCI Express signal in detail. So they have to sell a lot of parts. (And do!)
A Peltier? Yeah, that would be amusing... Put a coffee cup warmer on top!
Oh, and the case, I had a hard time finding one, then it came in stock, so it's very new! |
|
|
| GripperDon |
| Carly Forina, has resigned, yea. HP may be saved yet. GRIP :D |
|
|
| hasaanbhutta |
quote:
Originally posted by special-k
A good AntiVirus scanner is a must, and a combination of SpyBot S&D + AdAware seems to beat even the "best" commercial solutions.
get the Microsoft Anti Spyware, i have it installed on couple of client's machines and apparently it has worked (i think the guys at Microsoft started to work now) |
|
|
| GripperDon |
and work very nicely as you said hasaanbhutta
Thanks GRIP :D |
|
|
| hfelknor |
Anybody know of a small, reliable dual volts (12VDC, 110VAC) peltier cooler that they could reco?
I have diabetes.
When I travel It would be convenient for me to have a very small cooler (Could be as small as 1 can of coke.......and I have no interest in anything larger than a 6 pack) that could be used in the car and carried into a motel room and used there.
The temp is not critical. 40-60 degrees would be fine.
I bought one two years ago and it went bad. The company refused warranty because it was way more than 90 days old. Of course it had been used for a grand total of 6 days.:3:
Anybody?
Homer |
|
|
| Digital |
I love this forums. You'd never know when topic changes. Talking about computer upgrade and find your way into coolers and stuff.......i luv this stuff....keeps me entertained just reading this stuff......
Anybody see any patterns here........Ice Age.....Stone Age......Metal Age (Iron, bronze..etc)......Electronics Age........whats next?......any guess? |
|
|
| Digital |
| BTW....I just built my computer with Asus Premium motherboard and Pentium 4 Extreme Edition......sure needs lotta fans but that helps if you place it backward and Viola! you have a powerful heater....save some energy. It's really faaaaast though... |
|
|
| jaak |
quote:
Originally posted by Digital
I love this forums. You'd never know when topic changes. Talking about computer upgrade and find your way into coolers and stuff.......i luv this stuff....keeps me entertained just reading this stuff......
Anybody see any patterns here........Ice Age.....Stone Age......Metal Age (Iron, bronze..etc)......Electronics Age........whats next?......any guess?
Silicon Age (No, not Silicone age, although in Vegas that might be true!) Silicon Germanium Age, then the Bio age...
One day, you'll have to feed your PC and change it's diaper. |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
yes I know the heat thing.....
My two boys (11 and 14) have their own individual systems (thanks Dad) that they have saved for and upgraded themselves. One has a GF4-4200 with a P4-2gig proc, the other has a GF4-4600 with an AMD 2100. Along with my 6800GT and AMD 3400, I have noticed in my tri-level house that when we are all gaming, the heat doesn't come on. It will be 60F in the lower level of the house and 70F in the top level where the PC's reside.
Peltier coolers...
They work great as long as you ventilate the hot side heat sink well.
In an air conditioned car, as long as you keep the heatsink open to air movement, they can get very cold. The usual failure of peltiers is due to not enough heat removal from the hotside, they'll cook themselves. If I were you Homer, I would look at them carefully in regards to the design of venting of heat. A small fan should be there to move air, the chimney effect doesn't get it with peltiers.
Ahhh jaak! Last night I was in Micro Center and noticed an expandable ducting hose with standard 80mm fan flanges on each end, I think about you when I see stuff like that now. I also saw a cool designed shuttle mini PC that had a heat pipe setup going to a radiator in front of the rear case fan--great idea! Again, I was thinking of your system as soon as I saw it.
;)
Have you done your ducting yet? |
|
|
| jaak |
No and I want to...
Funeral today, Wife's grandmother, 94 (she did well, we're not complaining) and Wedding on Saturday... So many toys, so little time...
Thanks for reminding me though!!! I do want to try it and see the difference. |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
I started seeing stuff about replacing silicon/germanium doped chip dies with a die made from metalic oxides.
It seems that with conventional cooling, the 90nm process has hit a wall at around 4ghz. At this size the gates tend to be 5 atoms across--and silicon/germanium isn't very thermally efficient. When the speeds approach 4 ghz, the heat retained by the gates is not disipated enough in a silicon medium to keep them from frying.
AMD has used nickel in some of their prototypes which does lend itself to thermal efficiency even at a 45nm process.
Intel and IBM have teamed up to say they have discovered a thermally efficient substance...but won't say. I bet it is silicon carbide, it is a metal as well and is very thermallly conductive and is used in high power divices already---they have been having problems with micropipes developing in the substrate as it is growing though...
I thought that I saw something about gallium arsenide somewhere, but I can't seem to dig it up. Yes, I know it is used in photocells and Halleffect devices as well. |
|
|
| Digital |
Talk about invisible processors.......
As for my pc....i have eight fans.....two in back...one big one in front (came with the case) Three on the side and two built inside the power supply....one sucks air from processor and another blows it out of the power supply.......processor itselt is 3.4ghz but i overclocked it to 3.925 ghz....anything above and it doesnt boot. |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
| so, is ur proc ducted to your PSU? |
|
|
| MOCKBA |
I would wait for the Intel 64bit to come out before waisting money for anything else now.
And if anybody needs a new computer there is no longer a point to custom build one as it's always cheaper to catch a nice deal from dell for at least 30-40% off the custom system cost. |
|
|
| Digital |
Well somewhat ducted.....i have two rear fan that blows air away from processor.(cpu has its own fan...making it nine total)....rest is pulled by psu....all other components are overcooled by rest of the fans.....
my front fan does most of the work...its like airplane-like fan......your can also hear it miles away....my wife keeps on buggin me about it but oh well.....man gotta do what he gotta do.....she also bugs me about MO. Everytime she see's me doing somhing to MO..she walks to me and tell me "are we ever gonna drive this or u gonna keep on putting stuff in there.....".javascript:smilie(':rolleyes:')
roll eyes (sarcastic)
I tell her thta as long as there are mods out there....MO will never be done with.....I let her have my 03 pathfinder but like all women...they want new things and leave the others stuff behind....If i ever get a to hook it up to my wifes brain....i bet MO will be true drive-by-wire suv.javascript:smilie(':3:')
javascript:smilie(':3:') |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
I guess if you don't want to do research and find out what is best and just want one already built......and have the dough.....
I just did a comparison on my system and the top of the line Dell.
For $1100 I built a system with:
Same vid as Dell---cept mine has lifetime warranty and is O/clocked.
Same amount of ram---cept mine is Corsair TwinX.
Same dvd/cd burner.
The mobo in mine is definitly better.
The sound card same, mine is actually a dell audigy 2 zs I got off ebay.
Same PSU.
Same HDD.
Mine has 64 bit AMD 3400 proc--theirs has a 3.4 P4.
Theirs: $2448---but is is on sale now for $1616, without shipping.
As I have worked on all the big names, none build with Asus motherboards or any of the other top 3 mobo names, that is where they save their money, that and their purchasing power with vid cards and memory.
Sure, if you don't game, if you don't feel like knowing what's best, getcha a big name brand...but it won't be cheaper.
:) |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
Hey Don :) I knew you were going to comment on this one...so I
was trying to be as kind as possible for you...because of your Dell, I remember it. It is, after all, in this thread. Ur a Mo brother and a nice guy. :)
And, that is a great system, the best of all the big name builders--no doubt, hands down. Notice the vid and the sound card are the same as mine---the proc is a toss up between mine and what I spec'ed for the Dell---so they would most likely do a bench very close.
Obviously, and, I have no doubt, your cash flow is a factor of mine.
So I have to build my boxes. But, as you have great fun putting your mods on your Mo, I have a great time playing on my PC and in building it exactly as I want it, just as you and your Mo. My Mo is leased, it is the most expensive vehicle I have ever owned. It was quite a stretch for my pockets to get it and keep it. So, being that I am already stretched paying for it, and the fact it is leased, I can not mod the Mo. I will probably get the manik rocker bars one day and maybe get a hitch for our mountain bikes to go on a hitch carrier--but there is no monetary way to compete with most of you guy's mods.
I was just commenting on the build it urself post---there ain't no way you can beat a well researched, hand built system's price--otherwise, why would there be a market for it? |
|
|
| GripperDon |
Like I said "Your Sound Great". But for us ""brothers" Who don't have your smarts, The Dell is not bad. A personally built unit has to be the best.
That's what I am trying to do to the MO. "Hand build it" One accessory at a time. He he. GRIP :D
P.S. Don't knock your income, sounds much better than mine at your age! |
|
|
| Kris |
OK computer gurus. Need to pick up your brain again.
My 19 ViewSonic LCD just quit! Of course, 1 month after warranty expired - $800 down the drain. The screen just went black Seems like backlit? Anyway, a local shop recommended by ViewSonic wants $110 just for having a look. I can get similar monitor for $450 on the Internet. So if the repair cost less than $200 it might be worth the shot. Anybody out there with experience with LCD monitors? Is it worth repair? Cost of repairs?
Thanks |
|
|
| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by Kris
OK computer gurus. Need to pick up your brain again.
My 19 ViewSonic LCD just quit! Of course, 1 month after warranty expired - $800 down the drain. The screen just went black Seems like backlit? Anyway, a local shop recommended by ViewSonic wants $110 just for having a look. I can get similar monitor for $450 on the Internet. So if the repair cost less than $200 it might be worth the shot. Anybody out there with experience with LCD monitors? Is it worth repair? Cost of repairs?
Thanks
It sounds like your backlight went out. You will need a new backlight tube (sort of like a flourescent bulb I think). Not sure how much it will cost. |
|
|
|
