| Nfilippelli |
So last march i was having my car serviced, and was having the braking shudder / judder effect, so the service dept said they would do the TSB and replace my pads... so i was like cool.
Now here i am, less than a year later, and my brakes have started squealing... like they need to be replaced... i am gonna have it checked out tommorrow...
But it seems very wrong that the brake pads should be replaced so soon...
My last 2 cars, a Ford Explorer, and a Ford Taurus before that, it took me like 40K or so to need new brake pads.
Whats the deal!
Anyone have any idea why this would be happening?
-Nerf |
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| Kris |
I did not touch break pads in my Taurus for 63k miles when I sold it.
Anyway, I have 30k miles on MO now and the break pads look OK. I did have a problem though with brake judder a few months ago. It was fixed under warranty – dealer turned rotors an since then everything is working perfectly.
How many mile do you have? |
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| Nfilippelli |
i have about 28K
is there a link to the TSB?
i want to make sure that they did everything correctly when they fixed the brakes the first time, when i had the judder.
-Nerf |
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| GripperDon |
| They replaced my brake pads on the G35 at about 3500 miles for the rears and 4500 for the fronts. Maybe it's a Nissan thing. |
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| Hossley |
| I had my rotors turned at about 20K for the same reason. Now at 31K the shudder has returned. I am taking it in for regular maintenance and will have them fix it again (they'll probably turn the rotors again). Interestingly enough, my 2002 Sentra had the same brake rotor problem, they replaced those. |
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| Gonzo |
If you can believe this (although a small car) my 1989 Nissan Pulsar went over 100K on the front pads yes the front pads, they usually wear out faster than the rear brakes... the service department couldn't believe they were the original pads. It think the fact that is was a light car, I'm gentle on the brakes and I always doubled clutched to slow down helped.
Boy that was a great little car. |
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| Nfilippelli |
what gets me annoyed is that i had my front pads replaced when they fixed the shudder issue, they said that the warping or whatever in the rotors was causing premature wear of the brake pads, so the new pads have really only been used for about 15K or so.
i got an appointment for Wed, hopefully i can get this settled for little $$$, i just don't want to pay for new pads.
-Nerf |
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| Eric L. |
What kind of squealing issues? If they squeal only when applied, its likely the mastic goo compound on the back of the pads has worn away, causing the pads to vibrate a little. If they squeal even when you are not applying the brakes (like on initial acceleration), those are the wear indicators and then the pads will need to be replaced.
Let us know what the dealer says. I have squealing brakes (while braking) since day one. Dealer has refused to fix it, even though it is clearly an assembly problem. I'll probably "re-goo" the pads with CRC Disc Brake Quiet (the red brand) when the weather gets warmer. |
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| Nfilippelli |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric L.
What kind of squealing issues? If they squeal only when applied, its likely the mastic goo compound on the back of the pads has worn away, causing the pads to vibrate a little. If they squeal even when you are not applying the brakes (like on initial acceleration), those are the wear indicators and then the pads will need to be replaced.
Let us know what the dealer says. I have squealing brakes (while braking) since day one. Dealer has refused to fix it, even though it is clearly an assembly problem. I'll probably "re-goo" the pads with CRC Disc Brake Quiet (the red brand) when the weather gets warmer.
right now they only squeal when i apply the brake, and am moving slow. like towards the end of my braking process, when i am almost stopped.
so maybe its just the goo...
we shall see come wed.
-Nerf |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by Nfilippelli
right now they only squeal when i apply the brake, and am moving slow. like towards the end of my braking process, when i am almost stopped.
so maybe its just the goo...
we shall see come wed.
-Nerf
Its the goo, I get squealing on light braking as well. Your dealer might be nicer than mine and give you a free brake service. |
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| JeffC |
After only 900 miles both rear rotors are wearing unevenly. The service dept says this is normel because the MO uses a hard brake compound. Maybe, but even if they are using a hard compound the rotor should be made of a material that is compatible with the pads. I've used racing compounds on other cars and not had a problem with the rotors even after several seasons of track use.
JeffC |
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| GripperDon |
| Jeff How did you determin this? |
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| JeffC |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
Jeff How did you determin this?
Gripper,
The grooves in the rotors are obvious from 10 feet away. You can see them and feel them. BTW - I convinced the sales mgr to give me 4 new rotors back when they had to resurface the fronts. At that time I could see that both front and rear were glazed. Now the service guy is trying to cut cost or avoid replacing parts that are just going to fail again.
What the service guy was really saying was that the MO's rotors are not made of a hard enough steel or they run too hot and a new set will just do the same thing. This foots with the glazing, warping, grinding and squeaking problems that many of us are having. More top-notch technology from Nissan?
JeffC
At least it looks good.... |
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| GripperDon |
| WOW thanks for the info. I thought I read on here or somewhere about aftermarket rotors availability. I'll have to look into that, If I have a problem. |
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| GripperDon |
THANKS Sounds just like what the doctor ordered.
Wonder how much of a problem it would be to make the change over yourself? :confused: |
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| Eric L. |
Cross drilled or sloted rotors will NOT improve your braking performance measureably on a street car. In fact, the slots and holes take away from the mass of the rotor, effectively dimishing its ability to act like a heat sink during braking (which is the point of a rotor).
If you are track racing the heating those pads up to the point they begin to outgas, sure racing rotors would help.
For street driving, I recommended contacting Porterfield Brakes and asking if they have Brembo blank rotors. They are like the stock rotors except they have been cryo treated to be extra durable. In combination with some good aftermarket performance street pads (such as Porterfield R4S) you will have an unbeatable braking combo which fits the stock caliper assembly. It is my understanding that the FX uses the same brake assembly as the Murano, so the pads should be interchangable. Porterfield current offers Hawk brake pads for the FX, which should fit the Murano.
Please don't waste your money on the bling bling look without the performance. |
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| GripperDon |
| Does that mean the FX brakes warp and Squeal also? |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
Does that mean the FX brakes warp and Squeal also?
Depends whether the robots building the FX use enough of the goo for the pad backing. |
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| GripperDon |
| I do like the idea of the groves de-glazing the pads, and maybe the holes will keep the rotors cool so they won't warp. |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
I do like the idea of the groves de-glazing the pads, and maybe the holes will keep the rotors cool so they won't warp.
Somebody here is gonna need to calculate the total heat capacity of a blank rotor vs a crossdrilled rotor. Manufacturers go to great lengths to design the vents inside the standard discs to have a pattern consistent with adequate cooling.
I have read many posts which have concluded that a cross drilled or slotted rotor has no inherent advantages over a normal rotor UNLESS you are concern with brake pad outgassing, an event that will happen only under punishing repeated high speed braking event (like an autocross).
But I concede that anything is possible. I have not had the warped rotor problem on my Murano. My original post was just a heads up that installing fancy rotors might not give any noticeable advantage in braking to warrant the cost. If its a cosmetic mod, then go for it. |
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| JeffC |
Eric,
I have read articles in sports car racing magazines that have stated the same conclusion. Slots and holes are not necessary except in very specific and extreme circumstances. I raced Solo1 Autocross for 5 years and never had a problem with racing pads and standard rotors. People should beware of paying big $$$ on slotted rotors and getting no increased functionality.
JeffC |
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| GripperDon |
It's not cosmetic, BUT I still think the slots make sense as far as deglazing goes and the holes would let more air thru. What could be a negative. Cooler rotators? Doesn't sound bad to me.:confused:
Sure are many folks here complaining about squeal and warping and judder. |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
It's not cosmetic, BUT I still think the slots make sense as far as deglazing goes and the holes would let more air thru. What could be a negative. Cooler rotators? Doesn't sound bad to me.:confused:
Sure are many folks here complaining about squeal and warping and judder.
Less mass means the rotor might actually get hotter during braking, leading to more glazing. The question of the day is whether the holes are there for cooling, or whether they are there for outgassing. Probably both, but since outgassing is a moot point esp with an SUV, I am not sure if a fancy rotor will actually cool any better than a stock rotor of greater mass.
In theory a rotor with more holes should cool better, but I haven't seen any evidence this translates to better performance and longer brake life. From all I have read drilled or slotted rotors are hard on brake pads, and if the rotors are not warmed up gradually, they will experience stress factures at the holes (applies more to drilled then slotted). |
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| GripperDon |
| May all be true. Most I don't know of many real performance brakes that are not vented, slotted and drilled. I'll have twait o see If I get squaling or Warping and then decide. |
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| Halo |
:werd:
Eric L is completely right. Cross drilling is for the racer look. NASCAR and F1 cars sometimes have slotted rotors, but you won't see cross drilled ones. It's the actual drilling process that really screws up the integrity of otherwise solid rotors. If they are cast with holes in them from the start then perhaps they don't develop the same weak spots.
What's funny is the marketing crap around the various rotors. For example, some aftermarket bling-rotor makers claim better cooling (heat capacity vs. surface area is argued vehemently on many forums). Porsche claims their rotors have holes to give a place for water to go. There was a Ducati thread where the claim was for weight savings. C'mon make up your mind already which BS you want to feed us :2:
I posted a close up of the Spoon drilled rotor cracking in the last thread on this topic. |
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| Eric L. |
Thanks Halo and JeffC for confirming the facts. ;)
I have nothing against cosmetic mods. I just don't like it when they are viewed as performance mods, when in fact they usually deteriorate performance.
People are free to do as they please. We're just here to give the facts.
Enjoy the ride everyone.
Grip, I sure hope a good set of aftermarket performance pads comes out for the Murano. If Porterfield R4S ever come out, I'm sure you'll love them. A good street pad and synthetic brake fluid will do wonders for the braking feel. |
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| GripperDon |
| WHAT THE FACTS ARE? IS WHAT I AM TRY TO LEARN. ARE YOU REALLY SURE OF YOURS? I don't know yet. |
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| Eric L. |
I have no need to defend my posts, as they have already been confirmed by other members. Having been part of the import tuner crowd in the past, I have had experience with all these mods. That is how I learned my facts about performance modifications.
No one has any obligation to take what I post seriously. Its your money, spend it as you see fit. Its clear you enjoy having a stylish Murano, and thats great.
I suggest refraining from caps lock. Some people may find that rude. ;)
As for the Jag post, it does not say a cross drilled rotor leads to better performance. A "vented" rotor refers the cooling vanes between the discs, not the cross drilled holes. |
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| Halo |
The Jag site says they brakes are vented to improve cooling. This is 100% accurate. Vented is better than solid. The MO is the only SUV I know of that has vented all around, most don't use vented disks in the back.
But, even Brembo who stands to profit from selling these things doesn't lie: Cross drilling is for show. Giving a place for gases to go is all well and good, but the kind of driving where this would be an issue is exactly the kind of driving that is going to overheat them and even Brembo (in your link) says to not overheat them.
I also have no issue with people putting cross drilled rotors, big wings, stickers, LED tail lamps on their cars. I don't even care that they justify it to themselves as a performance improvement. However, I do take issue with people who try to justify to others of the improvement when it's BS.
If you put a turbo on your MO and blow the CVT, well you're broken down at the side of the road. If you have a brake disk fail on you going around a corner at speed I think the results could be much worse. |
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| GripperDon |
ERIC L Not trying to be rude or attack your post, no need to defend them, I am just trying to lean the facts. The info I am reading is even contradictory to itself. Please don't be offended as absolutely None intended. I used caps to make it clear I had hope that i have heard so much about brake squall and Judder ans warping and a posted with an 05 and less than 1000 mile already getting warped that I feel the undrilled and un slotted must not be cutting it. So I am trying to find the best facts I can. Again, Please don't be offended. Particularly by a caps lock or bold type.
:) |
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| GripperDon |
I think, I'll just drop the subject, sorry guys for getting the temps up.
All I did was say "Sounds Just like what the Doctor Ordered" in response to anothers post.
SORRY!
(Hope it was all right to use caps.) Just for emphasis not for insult or rudeness. :rolleyes: |
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| Eric L. |
No offense taken, although your sarcasm is noted. :p I was merely responding to your query of whether I am sure about what I am post. My answer is absolutely.
I already posted what I think is the best solution for the Murano's braking issues in previous posts.
I wonder whether the warping issues are a result of overly aggressive test drives. I have no doubt the salesman will tell customers to slam on the brakes to demonstrate the brake assist. |
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| JeffC |
Grip,
The Brembo/Tire Rack info site is just typical marketing BS. Note that they do allude to the fact that cross-drilled rotors are prone to cracking under track conditions.
"The Brembo Sport rotor’s cross-drilled holes are bi-angle chamfered at the rotor’s outer surfaces to help reduce the cracking caused by repeated, high stress, high temperature brake applications."
Also, they do not warrantee them if used on a track or with racing compound pads on the street. In that case, how good can they be? I've seen several cross drilled rotors crack under autocross conditions.
The Jag web site makes no performance claims for their cross-drilled rotors, but they will happily take your $500 dollars.
Caveat Emptor.
JeffC |
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| GripperDon |
Now that's a thought. I feel the MO is a grand and great vehicle and that some of the stuff is nit picky ,but not all. The Alternator, CVT and Brakes could be real difficulties l
By natue I am a PUNer and a smart ass so not too much I want to do about it at my age. :p |
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| Halo |
The holes in the pic i posted are chamfered, so you can make of that what you will.
As to warping, I know it's a strict no-no to put on your parking brake after track or AutoX time. But this would only apply to rear rotor warping so what do I know. |
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| GripperDon |
Sure seems like any part with an induced stress riser, like a hole, a slot or an internal channel like a vent could be a cause for cracking particularly if the part is subjected to rapid heating and mechanical load.
It was noted that the MO is the only SUV with vents all the way around maybe thats the problem for warping. Surely the Mo is not the heavest SUV. |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by Halo
The holes in the pic i posted are chamfered, so you can make of that what you will.
As to warping, I know it's a strict no-no to put on your parking brake after track or AutoX time. But this would only apply to rear rotor warping so what do I know.
To add to this, initially a new pad and rotor combo is particularly succeptible to warpage since the two surfaces have not been properly heat cycled and mated yet. This is esp true of the aggressive aftermarket performance pads. I remember Porterfield specifically recommending a very intense brake pad break in procedure requiring you to fade the pads on a series of moderate-hard stops for proper mating.
As for vented discs, they are vented for additional cooling. My understanding of rotor warping is that it is due to excessive heat buildup or improper brake pad installation. |
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| GripperDon |
| I go read up on Porterfield, sound good. |
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| Nfilippelli |
My my has this thread taken on a life of its own.
but anyway.
i found out that my rear brake pads were down to about %20
And so need to be replaced soon.
My front pads are at %70.
So after about 28000 miles, the rear pads are almost gone... interesting, it took like twice as long on my Explorer, though the service guy said these brakes are much more along the lines of preformance brakes and so will give you better stopping power, but more wear.
-Nerf |
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| GripperDon |
Nfilippelli
I had that same type of wear on my G35 where th rear wore more than the front and it's rear drive! I found it interesting, first car I ever had that wore the rears out at a faster rate that the front.
Maybe it's a Nissan thing. |
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| HuskyFan |
| I have noticed my Murano rotors appear rusty on the surface and my VW passat rotors are clean and shiny. The Murano rotors may be cast iron only and the VW rotors have an alloy in them. Another observation is the Murano brakes create very little brake dust on the wheels while the VW's wheels get dirty very quickly from the brake dust. The brake dust I assume is mostly a function of the brake pad material. |
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| dklanecky1 |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
Nfilippelli
I had that same type of wear on my G35 where th rear wore more than the front and it's rear drive! I found it interesting, first car I ever had that wore the rears out at a faster rate that the front.
Maybe it's a Nissan thing.
It's Nissan's electronic brake force assist doing it's job. |
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| GripperDon |
Tell me more, including if it works more on the rear than the front. Is this the emergency full brake actuation like I have on my Mercedes.?
PS just looking at a Mercedes SL500 with vent holes in the rotors, no cracks radiating from the holes I asked the owner if he had any brake problems, squeals, judder etc. he said no, so we got talking and I got to drive it!!!! He said, "Go ahead stomp it" he meant the gas and later the brakes. Wow Sweet machine, I was drooling.
PS LOTS OF GET UP AND GO AND SLOW DOWN AND STOP. (uh oh, that caps lock again) |
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| Eric L. |
| The Murano comes standard with brake assist, which is the same idea as the electronic panic assist on Mercedes. |
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| GripperDon |
OK! if thats what you are talking about I had it on the G35also, however I never panic breaked in my life to use it.
So I was and am still surprised my G35 wore the rears out so far ahead of the fronts. As I "think" Nfilippelli may have been about his wear front to back. |
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| Eric L. |
| Sounds like either Nissan made a poor choice for their brake pad material, or the electronic brakeforce distribution is pretty aggressive on the rear brakes. Normally I would suspect a bad proportioning valve, but on the Murano its controlled by the computer as well (part of the EBD). |
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