| Frobozz |
| Anyone have a problem with their PAC audio adapter unit failing in cold weather (say, below 20 degrees F)? Mine has done this repeatedly -- I get a 'NO SAT' message from my head unit. It won't work unless I warm up the car and then turn the car on/off to reset everything. Is this unique to me? |
|
|
| sid6581 |
I've seen this problem before.
Some of the components they are using probably aren't guaranteed down to those kinds of temperatures. Many ICs don't handle the extremes well :( |
|
|
| GripperDon |
| IMHO opinion the PAC unit is a little cheap, The cross talk between channels A and B leave a lot to be desired, and the latitude of the inputs regarding voltage level is low it clips easily. |
|
|
| special-k |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
IMHO opinion the PAC unit is a little cheap, The cross talk between channels A and B leave a lot to be desired, and the latitude of the inputs regarding voltage level is low it clips easily.
GripperDon... have you read about the JL Audio CleanSweep ?
In addition to all the wonderful magic of fixing the horrible Bose over-equalization, I would bet the farm it's top quality. JL Audio doesn't make "cheap junk". It offers an AUX input as well, but sadly, only one. I'm sure the smarter folks here in the forum like you and jaak and the others could come up with a simple yet brilliant and elegant switcher to put in-line... :)
Granted, the CleanSweep will probably cost $400 or so, but for all that it does... since I saw that product announcement I cancelled my plans to buy a PAC and decided to wait for the CleanSweep. |
|
|
| GripperDon |
| Actually I need 3 aux inputs. Sat, Xbox, Phone. A simple stepper rotary switch etc. but I would like it triggered from the A_B_C on the head set. :D |
|
|
| jaak |
I like the idea of the clean sweep, from JL, but you may still have to get a PAC to initialise the interface, but cut the audio wires and redirect them.
Don, what you want, is almost possible... If I recall correctly, there's two wires off the Pac that are toggled when the two inputs are selected. Using latching relays, you can isolate the inputs to the pac for better isolation, and also toggle between more than two sources.
I'd have to think about how to wire it, but it's certainly doable. It would mean that your source would flip between two selections, for a single button, but hey, it would still be integrated, with no external junk hanging around visible. |
|
|
| sid6581 |
I'd say just use the preset buttons... the microcontroller would watch for changes in the presets and just switch over the inputs as needed. You could also use the "press and hold" functionality of the preset buttons so that you'd still have the up/down preset messages from the steering wheel for other purposes.
I'm considering building something like this into the next revision of my project as well. I have most of the parts gathered together Just have to get in there this weekend and "hook up" :) |
|
|
| GripperDon |
| Sid I like where you are headed, I need to learn about the press and Hold function of the A-B-C presets, If you can explain and if it's not to much trouble I would love to hear what you have to say. I only use them to change the inputs between A and B on the PAC unit once the SAT button is pressed and of course for selecting which presets are used when I am using the Radio Fm and AM. Thanks Don :) |
|
|
| jaak |
Sid, your way is the best way... But it's possible on the pac to do it without adding a micro, and that's what I was getting at. Don could wire it up himself.
Of course, we had this discussion in email... I'm a hardware guy, not a software guy!!! |
|
|
| saito |
Frobozz
I've got the same problem. We had a stretch of 2+ weeks where the temperature did not go above freezing. I got the "NO SAT" error three times when the weather was particularly cold (below 20F). Each time it cleared up after the car warmed up a bit.
Arizona looks better and better. |
|
|
| jaak |
quote:
Originally posted by GripperDon
So should I order the PAC IR controller or not? Got confused.
No, on the Pac unit, there's a couple of flying leads that signal if input a, or b is selected. (I'm going from memory, so it's a bit rusty!)
I don't recall if they are steady state, or pulsed, but either way, with latching relays, it would be possible to switch more than two sources. I'll have to do some paper doodling to work out the logic. |
|
|
| jaak |
| There's a PIC controller in the Pac Audio unit. If I recall correctly they're using a ceramic resonator as part of the clock circuit. It's possible that the oscillator in the clock is not starting up, when it's really cold. No controller running, means no communication, which means "NO SAT" message. |
|
|
| jaak |
quote:
Originally posted by sid6581
I'd say just use the preset buttons... the microcontroller would watch for changes in the presets and just switch over the inputs as needed. You could also use the "press and hold" functionality of the preset buttons so that you'd still have the up/down preset messages from the steering wheel for other purposes.
I'm considering building something like this into the next revision of my project as well. I have most of the parts gathered together Just have to get in there this weekend and "hook up" :)
Sid, here's some food for thought...
The Pac unit uses a PIC microcontroller (as I mentioned above). In mine, it's socketed (another potential source for failure in the cold, now I think about it) so if you want to code, without building hardware, you could program a new PIC and drop it in. Of course, you'd have to detail the layout of the PAC first to know what's what....
Hmmm.... That would be interesting.... Performance chip for the Pac unit... |
|
|
| jaak |
http://www.pac-audio.com/instructions/aainis%20new.pdf
Shows Blue/Red wire for Aux 1 and Blue/Black for Aux 2, 300ma steady state on. So I could see a latching relay being used to control audio relays to toggle between two inputs on one Aux in.
An R/C circuit to create a pulse and wiring the relay to select the next state, or perhaps there's already a relay out there that will toggle states on each application of power. Haven't looked, but I bet it exists somewhere.
The best solution is a controller, however... It just has to listen on the bus for button presses on the radio, and select the audio source. A little bit more work, and it could send text to the display to tell you what input is selected.
The relays could be wired by anyone with basic electrical skills.... So it's easy for almost anyone to try.
I'll have to take a peek on the web to see what's available. |
|
|
| jaak |
Oh, silly me, a simple J-K flipflop will do it too!
What the heck is jaak talking about??? Well the electronics types will get this, but for those that don't know, it's a simple logic circuit, that when wired correctly will toggle between two states. Every time the aux lead is powered, the flipflop will change state. This could be used to drive an audio switching relay so you would toggle between two sources every other time you go to Aux 1 on the Pac device. |
|
|
| GripperDon |
| Thats why I mentioned a stepper, I have one of those that will do nicely cheap ) I already have it and easy to place and wire. |
|
|
| jaak |
| Ahhh... OK, brain didn't catch that one.... Yeah that would be easy to do! |
|
|
| sid6581 |
LOL performance chip for the PAC...
Unfortunately I don't do PIC programming, just Atmel AVR. So I wouldn't be much help in that department.
But anyway this weekend I successfully hooked up using the harness under the back seat. I now have all kinds of electronics junk cluttering up my new car hehehe. Though it does seem more familiar since every car I've ever had has been a "project car" :)
I've got communication working with a small Python program on the PC. I haven't yet emulated the startup sequence but as long as my TX line is working (not sure on that) I should be able to later this week. I'm working on the string recognition and basic communication framework in my spare time. Once it's all working and tested in Python, I'll move it to the AVR and ditch the PC (for that purpose anyway).
I will share all results with the forum... and of course, if anyone needs MCU programming help I can assist there as well once I've got a hold on things.
bye
Charles |
|
|
| GripperDon |
quote:
Originally posted by sid6581
I'd say just use the preset buttons... the microcontroller would watch for changes in the presets and just switch over the inputs as needed. You could also use the "press and hold" functionality of the preset buttons so that you'd still have the up/down preset messages from the steering wheel for other purposes.
I'm considering building something like this into the next revision of my project as well. I have most of the parts gathered together Just have to get in there this weekend and "hook up" :)
Sid! How about expanding that and giving me some hook up details that I can follow, slow and simple now, remember I am old. :D |
|
|
| jaak |
Charles, have you sent anything yet? The request line control is the one thing that is a nuisance, otherwise, it's just inverted RS-232...
Don, you can start with hooking up your Logic Analyser like this:
And if you want to have more than one device on the bus, you'll need to put parts in a few places on your Bose...
Now if you want to build a controller, here's a start:
Of course this allows you to do incredibly useful things like this:
So far, I have yet to see anyone post a picture of the display with text they've sent. Charles, will you be the first? (After me, of course....:D )
So Don, it's easy, there's nothing to it! (Once somebody else has figured out the communication hardware, structure, error checking and programs and builds the hardware...):crazyeye:
I just don't have the time to program it... I'm hoping Charles will make it!!! Timb, Tyler, Tman, let's see, who else?? They all ran into the same problem as me. Time. Not enough of it!
Go Charles, GO!!!:18: |
|
|
| jaak |
By the way, anyone else lurking that wants the detail on how NBUS works, just PM me. I have a PDF where I've documented the hardware communication as well as the start up sequence and the commands... That was the half of the hard work that I did. The other half is programming the controller, which I don't have time to learn right now.
Charles, please let me know if you discover more information! For example, there is one screen shot on this forum where the CD IN indicator is showing up on a display.
I've never seen that anywhere else and wonder if that's something that could be commanded on through the interface. It would be fun to send commands based on codes that aren't listed and see if there is a response, or display change.
Don, if you're serious about digging into this, look at
Murano Audio Project: Interfacing to Nissan's Nbus (Sat interface) |
|
|
| sid6581 |
GripperDon,
You'll need a fairly good deal of programming/hardware knowledge to pull this off. Check jaak's info as it is very nicely put together and is what I used as a starting point.
As soon as I have things stabilized and working, I plan to provide all info and code to this forum. I might also be willing to provide programmed microcontrollers if there is enough demand. Once I have the basic interface code written it will be fairly easy to modify it for different applications. I'll let you know! |
|
|
| jaak |
| I'm keeping my fingers crossed!!!! That would be awesome!:18: |
|
|
| Frobozz |
So the bottom line is, as far as I'm concerned, I'm hosed.
That really angers me. 20 degrees F is not harsh weather at all. PAC needs to make components that actually work in cars! |
|
|
| sid6581 |
They may not have used "industrial" grade parts. For instance, I work with Atmel microcontrollers and they provide two different models of most chips, each with a different operating temperature range: commercial (0-70C) and industrial (-40-85C). I'm assuming Microchip PIC has a similar system?
As you can see, the commercial version probably wouldn't work well at 20F (<0C). If they were using the industrial version there probably wouldn't be an issue at that temp.
The cost savings (for me anyway) is so little that I almost always pick the industrial part.
Charles |
|
|
| Dalite |
quote:
Originally posted by Frobozz
So the bottom line is, as far as I'm concerned, I'm hosed.
That really angers me. 20 degrees F is not harsh weather at all. PAC needs to make components that actually work in cars!
Could you use a Peltier Junction to help warm it (or cool it) prior to use? |
|
|
| GripperDon |
and you give me a straight line like that, directly following what I said above, WOW, Just pretend you know what I am typing here.
"How would the batteries fit in my pocket ?" GRIP :5: |
|
|
| Frobozz |
The temp issue does matter because once that NO SAT message comes up, the PAC adapter won't work until I turn the car off and on again, even when the car gets warm.
Perhaps I can drop a momentary contact switch in the power chain somewhere to force the PAC to go off, but that seems silly. |
|
|
| b0xdesigns |
quote:
Originally posted by jaak
http://www.pac-audio.com/instructions/aainis%20new.pdf
Shows Blue/Red wire for Aux 1 and Blue/Black for Aux 2, 300ma steady state on. So I could see a latching relay being used to control audio relays to toggle between two inputs on one Aux in.
An R/C circuit to create a pulse and wiring the relay to select the next state, or perhaps there's already a relay out there that will toggle states on each application of power. Haven't looked, but I bet it exists somewhere.
The best solution is a controller, however... It just has to listen on the bus for button presses on the radio, and select the audio source. A little bit more work, and it could send text to the display to tell you what input is selected.
The relays could be wired by anyone with basic electrical skills.... So it's easy for almost anyone to try.
I'll have to take a peek on the web to see what's available.
I'm going to install the PAC AAI tommorrow...Where exactly do i put the blue/red and blue/black wires @? DO they need to be connected to something? Or just leave them alone..... I'm not sure. ...Please help...Thanks
boX |
|
|
| jaak |
The pac switches the audio paths as well, so you don't need to connect them. They're available for convenience of switching something. For example, if you wanted to power up the device you're going to listen to, when selected.
I recall Don mentioning some crosstalk when more than one device is on, under certain conditions. This could also be used to drive an audio relay to give higher isolation. The Pac switches with solid state switches, so the isolation is not as great as a relay would give.
Start off ignoring them, unless you have an immediate need. |
|
|
| b0xdesigns |
quote:
Originally posted by jaak
The pac switches the audio paths as well, so you don't need to connect them. They're available for convenience of switching something. For example, if you wanted to power up the device you're going to listen to, when selected.
I recall Don mentioning some crosstalk when more than one device is on, under certain conditions. This could also be used to drive an audio relay to give higher isolation. The Pac switches with solid state switches, so the isolation is not as great as a relay would give.
Start off ignoring them, unless you have an immediate need.
Thanks Buddy! |
|
|
| GripperDon |
Jack's approaches about using the output leads to trigger relays sounds good.
If you don't want to do that, then make sure the other channel is not supplying signal. I have a PIE X3 on my Faye ant provides 3 aux in and a little box and a button with illumination that switches from position to position each time you press it. It has wonderful isolation probably 60+db. from Precision Interface Electronics same price. |
|
|
| zebelkhan |
I am using one of the wires to turn a relay on and off to switch between different speakers.
I have to say, the cross talk between aux-1 and aux-2 is very annoying...:mad: |
|
|
|
