| dejongj |
Just a shame that nobody buys those cars, at least not in the UK...I think VW is a bit silly, a VW for Merc/BMW money...At least Nissan undercuts the competition in price....
Hmmm S-Class, 7-Series, A8 or Pheaton...Silly VW... |
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| hfelknor |
Incredible.
Somebody answer this........
Toyota is Toyota,
Makers of such luxury vehicles as the Echo and the Corolla.
But people have no problem buying a Lexus from them.
So what's the problem with the Phaeton?
I fail to see the difference.
Homer |
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| dejongj |
Not that simple to answer, but in my humble opinion...Buyers aren't stupid......
Lexus showrooms are different and no-way affiliated with Toyota to the public; at least not in the UK. The brands don't cross and you don't have to go in the same showroom where you can also by a Corolla....BTW The Camry doesn't sell in Europe either....
VW Has not done this with the Pheaton you get the same treatment buying an 7 grand Lupo as a 70 grand pheaton...Besides VW also has got the Audi A8 and the Bently brands...So take your pick...
With Bentley they have a more similar model towards customer treatment as Toyota has with Lexus...People don't seem to be bothered having a VW Engine in their Bentley... |
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| ekaxel |
What is wrong with a "VW" engine?
The term loosely (in the US it is a little more limited) includes most of the Audi offerings (which are in VW too). I recall that they offered the W12, which is one of the most technologically advanced engines in the world. |
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| dejongj |
Appearantly to you there is nothing wrong with a Volkswagen engine....But come on you don't tend to compare it or name it in the same breath as Bentley....Bentley even has rebranded the engine...Funny that as Ssang Young never bothered rebranding the Mercedes engines....Got my point ;-)
It's all about perception....but you get more with a brand than just that....Skoda has come a long way, you basically now get Volkswagen quality (not that it is still that good, the new Golf is crap or it is just my model compared to the previous Golf...) but you don't get the same brand treatment...And you can't demand it and you can't even get it serviced and not void the warranty...
Sometimes corporations are just silly, take Aston Martin, they went through a really low sales patch which coincided with sharing all of Ford's 'technology' and switchgear...So you get in a 100grand car and see the same switchgear as in a 13grand family saloon....Stupid...
No Lexus/Toyota have done a good job I think...
Still like the factory though ;-) |
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| hfelknor |
Well, I didn't know how they marketed the Phaeton.
I think that you have nailed it.
And I think that it is related to another thread "Why don't the dealers like us" or somesuch.
Lexus is perceived here as a completly different car company than Toyota.
Oh sure, car guys know about the fact that a Lexus is just a top of the line Toyota, but I would bet that most Lexus' owners don't.
Infiniti is the same way, tho Infinit luxury cars are a complete failure here. Infiniti lives on its G sales.
But there is no doubt about it, a dealership is attuned to the target audience which is set by the pricing of the line.
That's exactly why Toyota and Honda and Nissan All spun off their luxury divisions and have a separate dealer network.
Mercedes builds a lotta crap now, but at least they treat you like a king here.
If VW spun off Phaeton, it might be a different story.
A Lot of people like VW.
I used to.
I don't anymore.
Oh they are OK as a bottom feeder (Tho there new Beatle is horrid when it comes to reliability) but there mid range stuff just has too many problems.
I really believe that every power window they ever built has broken or will soon. And this has been going on for YEARS.
VW engines have never once been accused of being smooth. Not even in VW magazines.
But they are solid.
As to Aston Martin, we don't see them here.
Most english cars don't come here any more.
In any event I wouldn't buy a DB with a VW motor in it.
Ford has certainly helped Jaguar.
Without Ford, Jag would have been gone by now, From our shores, if not gone from the automotive scene.
They were among the worst built cars in the universe when Ford bought them, and they are among the best now.
Tho why they came out with a $30,000 Jaguar is beyond me..........:rolleyes:
So a lot is perception.
But a lot is gained by setting up a separate company or wholly owned affiliate and training your people to the level that your customer requires.
That is still a great factory and i imagine the car is quite good.
Homer |
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| SugarRushMurano |
quote:
Lexus is perceived here as a completly different car company than Toyota.
Oh sure, car guys know about the fact that a Lexus is just a top of the line Toyota, but I would bet that most Lexus' owners don't.
Yup, i agree with you. A friend of mind (who is Not a car guy) was under the impression than toyota is japanese vehicle, and lexus is ... you guess, european :rolleyes: |
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| UncaDanno |
And what is so wrong with VW?
911, 914, and Carrera drivers don't seem to mind driving theirs... |
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| SugarRushMurano |
quote:
And what is so wrong with VW?
911, 914, and Carrera drivers don't seem to mind driving theirs...
There is nothing wrong with VW vehicles. They still have the kick: the VW beetle, the cabrio, the golf, the touareg. VW vehicles are among european vehicles that still posses the 'golden age' aura . Aside from recent quality problems that plague some VW vehicles, VW still makes vehicles that are fun and joy to drive (example: the RS32 golf)!
Yet, i think VW sometimes is trying to attack the wrong market segment. VW = Volkswagen = people car for $70K? Recently, Audi of America chief was fired because he criticized the $70K VW! THAT IS what is wrong VW company: IMHO, the business model.
Article : http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_us_audi_chief/ |
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| jaak |
| I love driving VW's, but I've hated owning them. So while I still look at them out of curiousity, I'll never take my wallet out for one. Too bad...:( |
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| KSmurano |
I agree wth hfelknor that VW is just trying to do to much under one brand without enough models in any one price range.
They only have 7 total models with a $15-96k base price range!
Starting from economy up to luxury.
Golf 15-20
Beetle 16-26
Jetta 17-25
GTI 19-22
Passat 22-33
Touareg 37-58
& then they jump up to Phaeton 66-96 WOW!
Toyota covers economy to the lower luxury level with 16 models and a base price range of $10-55k.
Corrolla 10-11
Tacoma 13-25
Matrix 14-18
Tundra 16-33
Celica 17-23
Prius 20
RAV4 18-21
Camry 18-25
Sienna 23-37
Spyder 25-26
Avalon 26-33
Highlander 24-31
4runner 27-37
Sequoi 32-45
Highlander Hybrid 33-39
Land Cruiser 55
While Lexus covers the lower to middle Luxury range with 12 models and a $29-65k base price range.
IS 300 29-31
ES 330 32
RX 330 36-37
GS 300 38-44
GX 470 46
GS 430 46
RX 400H 48
LS 430 56
SC 430 63
LX 470 65
The Lexus highest base is 34k under the Phaeton and that's enough cash that even a well off person is going to notice.:eek: |
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| dejongj |
Some interesting comments in this thread...But like with anything in life it is just a matter of perspective combined with importer strategy (you don't seem to get all models in the US as the range in Europe is much more diverse...which is not a manufacturers but importers choice...) and combined with brand strategy...
Remember that VW is not just a single company...
Super Value - Skoda
Value Sport - Seat
No-Nonsense - VW
BMW Territory - Audi
Ultimate statement - Bentley
It won't work everywhere in the world, but there is much more of a movement to not show how rich you are in Europe and get a less opulent vehicle yet with the same or better levels of quality...
The problem with a lot of the Japanese, Murano included, and US cars compared to European is that the quality and styling of the interiors is just at the same level as the European manufacturers.
Styling is ofcourse very subjective and can't sensibly be argued about. Quality, well I think Lexus is a great example where it is too peperfect, just too good. For example the wood is of such quality that it makes you think it is plastic....
I think VW (with all its sub-brands), BMW, Porsche have got it spot on. Yes I left Mercedes out on purpose as they seem to take the button-galore approach with wobbly buttons.... |
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| HuskyFan |
| I have a 1998 VW Passat with the 1.8t engine and tiptronic transmission and so far have had very little trouble with it. The car has 87000 miles on it, gets about 31 mpg on the highway and drives very well. The car is roomy and has a large trunk. Mechanically the car is very close to an Audi A4, only larger. My dealer once said they should have called the car an A5 since it is between the Audi A4 and A6 in size. |
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| dejongj |
This side of the pond it is quite well known fact that wise people would walk past the A6 and get the Passat instead, more roomy and the same engines at a much lower price...
But now wise people would say walk past the passat and get the Skoda Superb instead, higher standard spec but less options, roomier and much, much cheaper....
Badge snobbery makes me laugh...Don't think many of us on this forum are guilty of it, otherwise we would spend more money and get a Lexus or BMW, etc... |
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| Kris |
quote:
Originally posted by dejongj
Don't think many of us on this forum are guilty of it, otherwise we would spend more money and get a Lexus or BMW, etc...
I am not so sure.............;) |
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