| Eric L. |
Ok first off I apologize for not having pictures for this. I was pretty busy this weekend and working on the car is a messy task - aka I didn't want to get my digital camera dirty.
I changed my CVT fluid this past weekend, and since I don't see a DIY writeup for this (like oil changes, brakes, or cabin filters) on the forum, here it goes. My procedure differs from the FSM, which requires more fluid. I chose a 30,000 mile interval mainly because I am still not 100% convinced of the CVT's durability and its not that expensive since I do the work myself. Some will say its overkill, but again its not like I am leasing the vehicle, nor did I pay $1500 for an extended warranty. Those who prefer to stick with extended intervals probably have their maintenance performed by the dealership and wouldn't find a DIY writeup useful anyways.
Tools:
6-7 quarts Nissan NS-2 CVT fluid ($18/qt from Courtesy Nissan) - I actually used 5.5qts, but get 6 or 7 to be safe.
19mm socket wrench
Small flathead screwdriver
Needlenose pliers
Copper gasket - same as the one used for the oil pan drain plug (69 cents from Courtesy Nissan)
A very narrow spout funnel (for some reason they seem to always come in orange - anyways, its $2 from Walmart)
Directions:
1) Drive the car for about 15 minutes to warm up the transmission fluid - warm fluid flows faster
2) Park on a level surface, apply the parking brake (!)
3) Optional - jack up the car and place on jackstands, all four corners (remember the car needs to be level for a proper drain)
4) The CVT oil pan is located on the drivers side - easy to find because the big metal/plastic scoop we love for drawing pictures in the snow is right in front of it
5) The CVT drain plug is located on the back half of the oil pan
6) Place a large container (8 qts recommended) beneath the drain plug
7) Remove drain plug with a 19mm socket
8) Be careful! Oil will be quite warm and gushes out very quickly. You might want to wear a pair of latex gloves for this.
9) Allow 10-15 minutes for CVT fluid to drain out.
10) Important - pour used CVT fluid into separate containers - I used old 1 gallon water jugs - to calculate approximately how much fluid you should add back in - in my case, it filled a little less than 1-1/2 gallon jugs, so I estimated 5-1/2 quarts.
11) Remove the old copper gasket - I used a flathead screwdriver to pry it up, then unscrewed it from the threads
12) Replace with new copper gasket
13) Reinstall the drain plug - hand tighten with socket wrench - similar to how you hand tighten the oil drain plug (i.e. a few strong tugs after the gasket has been flattened)
14) The CVT dipstick is also the charging pipe to add new CVT fluid. It is locked into place with a plastic tab. Use one tip on the nose of pliers (opened) to push in the plastic tab facing the front of the car, then pull up to release the dipstick. I used the pliers because the first time I removed the dipstick, I used the small flathead screwdriver, and ended up breaking the plastic tab! The dealer replaced the dipstick for me for free though.
15) Using the narrow neck funnel, which should fit neatly into the CVT tube, refill with NS-2 fluid the same amount you drained out.
16) Reinsert the CVT dipstick with the plastic tab rotated 180 degrees (i.e. so it does not lock) - this makes it easier later on to check the CVT fluid level.
17) Take your MO for a test drive, and with the engine at operating temperature (again 10-15 minutes drive), shift through all the gears and then back to park (this is what the FSM says, but its a CVT, so I dunno why you need to do it).
18) With the engine idling and gear in Park, pull the CVT dipstick and check the level - it should be within the normal range. If low, add CVT fluid as required, 1/4 quart at a time (then recheck).
19) When level is correct, reinsert the CVT dipstick so that the plastic tab locks in place again.
20) Finished. Your CVT thanks you for taking care of it.
Curiously, I noticed when I checked the old fluid using the dipstick it looked clear. When I drained it, it was an amber color, slightly darker than new motor oil. The new NS-2 fluid I added was a greenish clear color.
Update: Make sure to take the used CVT oil to a local automotive fluid recycling facility (a store like Autozone or Kragen for example) for proper processing. DO NOT pour it down the drain. |
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| hfelknor |
Let me get you to speculate here.
1- Do you think, like most "auto" transmissions, there is a filter located in the pan area?
2- Do you think it is even possible to
a- remove the pan with the transmission in the car?
b- buy a new pan gasket?
3- Do you think the dealer, or some other shop, has the necessary equipment to totally flush the CVT?
What do you think?
Good job on the DIY instructions.
Homer |
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| Eric L. |
1) The Murano might have one, but its not listed in the FSM.
2a) Yes, it looks like the transmission pan can be removed (looks like a normal 20 some odd bolt pan)
2b) If the filter exists, the gasket exists
3) The dealer will use the "manual" flush method from the FSM. Unless the independent shop buys OEM parts and fluids (usually the ones that specialize in a few makes, like European or Japanese cars exclusively, do) I'm not sure how you can service the CVT without Nissan NS-2 fluid.
Oh, I *tried* to service the transfer and rear diff too. In neither case could I remove the fill plug. The front transfer fill bolt is about 1-1/2" from one of the precats - not enough room to get even a ratcheting wrench into place to get any leverage - also tried every single angle socket and pivoting extension tool I had, no dice. The rear fill bolt is likewise 1-1/2" from the rear suspension member, and neither my allen wrench or allen socket will fit there. Stupid design. Now I'm not sure how the dealer will tackle it, but I might have them give it a try. *Nervous*
quote:
Originally posted by hfelknor
Let me get you to speculate here.
1- Do you think, like most "auto" transmissions, there is a filter located in the pan area?
2- Do you think it is even possible to
a- remove the pan with the transmission in the car?
b- buy a new pan gasket?
3- Do you think the dealer, or some other shop, has the necessary equipment to totally flush the CVT?
What do you think?
Good job on the DIY instructions.
Homer
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| Gonzo |
Great post.... sounds pretty easy. I thought that the SM stated to
"flush" it using the discharge tube from the cooler. No? |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by Gonzo
Great post.... sounds pretty easy. I thought that the SM stated to
"flush" it using the discharge tube from the cooler. No?
Yeah but like I said, I strayed from the FSM for this one. I figure having CVT fluid spray all over your garage wall while you pour it in from above isn't tops on "most DIY maintenance" lists. :D |
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| Eric L. |
| If people find this useful, I can also make this sticky. |
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| Kris |
I have 54k now. At the end of May I will get to 60k. Reading your post I am tempted to do it myself. Seems pretty easy.
Did you notice any difference in CVT behavior? Sound?
PS. I have made the thread “sticky”. |
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| zebelkhan |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric L.
If people find this useful, I can also make this sticky.
I vote for sticky. What did you do with the "used" fluid? |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by zebelkhan
I vote for sticky. What did you do with the "used" fluid?
Added a note about recycling the fluid. I take it to my local Autozone, where they recycle it for free. |
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| larez2 |
Has anyone tried using a fluid exchanger/pump to change their transmission fluid? I have one and it has a skinny attachment that would allow me to suck the old oil out through the dipstick. I've used it to change oil on other cars before. It works really well.
http://tinyurl.com/j8xd2
Extremely unmessy, easy to use, and it has measurements labelled on the side of it so you know right away how much new fluid to add back in.
Larez2 |
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| jbowermo |
quote:
Originally posted by larez2
Has anyone tried using a fluid exchanger/pump to change their transmission fluid? I have one and it has a skinny attachment that would allow me to suck the old oil out through the dipstick. I've used it to change oil on other cars before. It works really well.
http://tinyurl.com/j8xd2
Extremely unmessy, easy to use, and it has measurements labelled on the side of it so you know right away how much new fluid to add back in.
Larez2
I was thinking the same thing.
Eric, was there any sludge at all in the drained fluid that would suggest a extractor would not be good to use? |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by jbowermo
I was thinking the same thing.
Eric, was there any sludge at all in the drained fluid that would suggest a extractor would not be good to use?
After 30,000 miles, no sludge at all. |
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| MightyMo |
If I recall correctly, access to the rear diff plug actually uses a hole through the rear subframe. Take a closer look, I'm %99 sure that's the case.
The transfer case OTOH I just take to my corner Chevron Oil Stop guys, I have no freaking clue what tool they use to get to it, I should ask next time for fun ;) |
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| Gonzo |
| The only cencern I have is just draining alone may not be sufficient. I mean it is better than nothing but would you change your oil and leave a the dirty oil filter in place? I think I will bring mine to the dealer and hope they perform a complete flush as per the SM. |
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| Kris |
Gonzo,
i do not believe CVT has a filter..... |
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| hasaanbhutta |
quote:
Originally posted by Kris
Gonzo,
i do not believe CVT has a filter.....
you are right Kris....
Here is the link to the extracts of CVT system and How-to (for service guys) from SM but it doesnt indicate any filter at all.....
as you can see in the cross-sectional diagram of CVT
PS> please let me know if its illegal to share extracts from SM !! |
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| Gonzo |
quote:
Originally posted by Kris
Gonzo,
i do not believe CVT has a filter.....
I wasn't implying the it had a filter but leaving much of the fluid in the system as it would occur if an oil filter was left on after an oil change. I wasn't very clear.
I want "maxium flushage" for a tranny fluid change.... if that is even possible. |
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| Gonzo |
| Interesting... what and where can we determine is the CVT detoriation date? |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by Gonzo
Interesting... what and where can we determine is the CVT detoriation date?
We've mused about this for a while now and no one seems to have come up with an explaination what this mysterious value is. It comes up on the CONSULT computer, but thats it. Apparently even high mileage MO's report a value in the low 1000's, and the limit is in the 100,000's. My guess is that its like the oil monitor on new cars - it doesn't measure any specific property of the fluid, but rather tallies up a "score" calculated from accumulated driving scenarios. |
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| Kris |
Eric is right,
howewer, I would still change the CVT fluid at least in 60k intervals. Smehow I find it hard to believe that fluid would last so long.......anyway, it certainly does not hurt to change it. |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by Gonzo
Interesting... what and where can we determine is the CVT detoriation date?
Gonzo-
I hope you are referring to the CVT fluid deterioration date. I want to believe the CVT itself will last quite a long time. :p
The CVT "brain" uses an algorithm to determine the remaining life of the CVT fluid. The Consult-II tool interrogates the brain and if the "CVTF DETERIORATION DATE" is greater then 210,000 the fluid needs to be changed.
-njjoe |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by Gonzo
I wasn't implying the it had a filter but leaving much of the fluid in the system as it would occur if an oil filter was left on after an oil change. I wasn't very clear.
I want "maxium flushage" for a tranny fluid change.... if that is even possible.
Gonzo-
If you follow the procedure in the Service Manual and want maximum "flushage" the SM indicates "about 30 - 50% extra fluid will be required". That is quite a bit of $$$.
-njjoe |
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| Gonzo |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
Gonzo-
If you follow the procedure in the Service Manual and want maximum "flushage" the SM indicates "about 30 - 50% extra fluid will be required". That is quite a bit of $$$.
-njjoe
True but the CVT is quite a bit more of $$$. |
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| Kris |
Gonzo,
I believe that to do it right way you need to take off the CVT pan and clean it out. Then flash the system. And I do agree with you that the extra $$$ for 50% more CVT fluid is a small price to pay.
Just my 2c..... |
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| hasaanbhutta |
| well, i started working towards my CVT flush.... although at 47,500 KM, but still this deal was awesome.... a pair of 2 ton axle stands..... for 9.99$.... so i got 2 pairs.... will be handy for any other projects as well, i.e tire rotation etc |
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| Eric L. |
| I had a set of $9.99 jackstands in the beginning as well, but quickly found that I needed some really beefy jackstands that could raise the car high enough (these only went up to maybe 14-15") to really work underneath it (without the crossmember being 2" from my nose) I opted for a set of high jackstands (20" lift) with 4 ton capacity. They cost around $50 a pair, but the extra space underneath made them really worth it. Matches nicely to the jack I use, which can lift up to the same height I think. |
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| folgersoldier |
| Get the rhino ramps from Walmart and just put in front of the front and rear wheels and drive up if you want to raise all four. Much safer and easier than sittin on four jack stands which leaves you with no tires to chock. Probably gives you more room underneath as well and I believe they were fairly cheap when I bought mine. Just a though for anyone who likes to work underneath there car. If you figure you would need two any way to do the front end work, it only leaves you buying one extra set. |
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| Pat03MO |
| Just did a CVT fluid drain and fill on my 2003 MO. Took just shy of 6 quarts. At 53,000 miles, the fluid in my 1 gallon containers looked like dirty motor oil. Made me cringe... For $135 bucks, it's still cheaper than a new $6000 CVT. Afterwards, CVT dipstick looked much clearer. The dealer here says change it every 60,000 miles. I see why... |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by Pat03MO
Just did a CVT fluid drain and fill on my 2003 MO. Took just shy of 6 quarts. At 53,000 miles, the fluid in my 1 gallon containers looked like dirty motor oil. Made me cringe... For $135 bucks, it's still cheaper than a new $6000 CVT. Afterwards, CVT dipstick looked much clearer. The dealer here says change it every 60,000 miles. I see why...
Congrats - yeah my CVT fluid didn't look too hot after even 30,000 miles. I am glad I changed it. |
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| Kris |
The look of the fluid does not mean much.
However, I still would drain-and-fill it every 30k miles. It is a cheap insurance......I did it with the FX as well. Money well spent.
I know Joe will not agree with us but....;) |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by Kris
The look of the fluid does not mean much.
However, I still would drain-and-fill it every 30k miles. It is a cheap insurance......I did it with the FX as well. Money well spent.
I know Joe will not agree with us but....;)
:2:
-njjoe |
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| Pat03MO |
| When I mentioned the color of the CVT fluid, I was in my mind (probably incorrectly) comparing it to the color differences in good 'ol red automatic transmission fluid. When its fluid color gets darker, it gives a fair indication of when it's (past?) due for a fluid change. Thanks all for the input. Bottom line is we all agree that changing it early is good insurance against having to spend thousands of dollars for a new CVT out of warranty. |
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| skoh |
Here is another option for CVT fluid manufactured by Nippon Oil, the largest oil company in Japan. They supply the factory fill engine oil, transmission fluid to Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai.
They recently launched ENEOS - their first aftermarket brand of fully-synthetic engine oils and ATF including CVT fluid.
It is an alternative to the $18-25 per quart from the Nissan dealership.
Here is more info:
http://www.eneos.us/web/cvt_fluid.aspx
http://www.ChrysanStore.com
Full disclosure: Yes, we are a distributor for ENEOS! :)
- Suk |
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| BlueSteW8 |
Looks like a good alternative, since it does list it as being a replacement for the NS2-CVT fluid.
Do you know if they are the source for Nissan OEM fluid? |
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| skoh |
I can't say for sure about a specific product (i.e. the OEM CVT fluid) due to confidentiality agreements. But, this is what ENEOS says on their home page: www.eneos.us
"We are proud to supply leading car manufacturers on a factory fill basis. NOC develops oils for Japanese automobile and motorcycle manufacturers: Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Yamaha, Hyundai. NOC is the major supplier of lubricants in Japan, USA and other countries."
So, I interpret this as they supply some or all of the OEM fluids to the Asian car manufacturers. It may be engine oil, transmission fluid, CVT fluid, or a combination of these fluids.
Hope this helps.
- Suk |
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| Eric L. |
| Hmmm, the first alternative for Nissan's NS-2 fluid. I wonder who will be the first to give it a try. |
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| Kris |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric L.
Hmmm, the first alternative for Nissan's NS-2 fluid. I wonder who will be the first to give it a try.
ye, it is an interesting question. It is quite likely this is the same fluid..... |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric L.
Hmmm, the first alternative for Nissan's NS-2 fluid. I wonder who will be the first to give it a try.
You guys know sure as hell it ain't gonna' be me. At least not until she hits 150,000 miles. :D
-njjoe |
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| Kris |
Joe,
you would be last on mine mind when it comes to CVT fluid change...:D |
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| skoh |
Thanks for the replies & feedback, everyone
I understand that the dealerships & quick lubes want you to come in as often as possible and they recommend a CVT flush every 30,000 miles.
But $300+ for a CVT flush at the dealership is tough to swallow.
This is another source of CVT fluid from a very reputable oil company (Nippon Oil) where previously there was no other choice but the dealership.
Quite a few Toyota/Honda dealerships are already on board on the West Coast. Check out a distributor in California: http://www.eneos.us/web/dealer_locator.aspx?state=ca
I will also check with ENEOS's technical guy for more supporting data specifically regarding Nissan CVTs.
Stay tuned.
- Suk |
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| nissanlover |
| Has anyone here tried ENEOS CVT fluid yet??? i was just wondering because their website tells the compatibilty of their CVT fluid with most CVT Trani vehicles... It does have Nissan Murano but i just wanted to know that if some1 has practically used it yet! If yes then how was the result??? Any problem at all??? looking forward for replies! |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by nissanlover
Has anyone here tried ENEOS CVT fluid yet???
nissanlover-
Welcome to the forum!
Last year there was a lengthy discussion on this topic and the general consensus was that it was not worth the risk to use this unapproved fluid.
Here's a link to that thread: Click Here
I had sent an email to Nippon Oil requesting confirmation of compatibility. The following email is from Satoru (Steve) MATSUMURA from Nippon Oil (USA) Limited in Torrance, CA:
Dear Joe,
Thank you for your inquiry about our product.
Here is my answers to your questions.
1) ENEOS CVT Fluid is compatible with Xtronic CVT. (is NOT compatible with Xtroid CVT.)
2) ENEOS CVT Fluid is not approved by Nissan. However, this product has been tested by Nippon Oil, been marketed in Japan for more than 3 years and been sold to many Nissan cars there.
If you have further questions, please feel free to ask me.
Best regards,
-njjoe |
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| jmaloneaz |
Has anyone tried using a fluid exchanger/pump to change their transmission fluid? I have one and it has a skinny attachment that would allow me to suck the old oil out through the dipstick. I've used it to change oil on other cars before. It works really well.
http://tinyurl.com/j8xd2
Extremely unmessy, easy to use, and it has measurements labelled on the side of it so you know right away how much new fluid to add back in.
Larez2
I read this exchange a while back and now my tranny seems to be slipping. So, I was going to cange the fluid this weekend. However, I was wondering about the fluid exchanger since I didn't really see any newer replies other than the lack of sludge. |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by jmaloneaz
I read this exchange a while back and now my tranny seems to be slipping.
jmaloneaz-
If your CVT is really "slipping", I doubt very much if a fluid change would rectify the problem.
There are only two places where the CVT could possible slip - 1) the single clutch, or 2) the belt-to-pulley contact patch. If either of those areas are slipping, then you are looking at a new unit.
How many miles are on your MO?
-njjoe |
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| jmaloneaz |
Re: fluid exchanger
quote:Originally posted by jmaloneaz
I read this exchange a while back and now my tranny seems to be slipping.
jmaloneaz-
If your CVT is really "slipping", I doubt very much if a fluid change would rectify the problem.
There are only two places where the CVT could possible slip - 1) the single clutch, or 2) the belt-to-pulley contact patch. If either of those areas are slipping, then you are looking at a new unit.
How many miles are on your MO?
-njjoe
126,962 I just checked my records and the dealer changed it at 101,303. I don't really know if it is the tranny but yesterday in the mountains the car hesitated before starting and sometimes I would have to feather the pedal to continue at the same speed. |
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| Gonzo |
| Perhaps the throttle position sensor. |
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| BlueSteW8 |
You might try checking the hose to MAF connection.
Ours had some serious problems caused by that - they also recalibrated the throttle(?) I think. |
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| jmaloneaz |
Gonzo said, "Perhaps the throttle position sensor." and Blue StwW8 said, "You might try checking the hose to MAF connection.
Ours had some serious problems caused by that - they also recalibrated the throttle(?) I think.."
How do I check either of those?
Thanks,:) |
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