NISSAN MURANO . ORG Archive - Murano Winter Tires?

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Murano Winter Tires? - Click HERE for Original Thread

DavidG

We are buying a new Nissan Murano SL AWD. It comes with Goodyear Eagle LS tires: 235/65TR18. When buying a new car, we generally also get dedicated Nokian winter tires on their own (steel) wheels.

According to our local dealer, steel wheels are not available in either an 18" or 17" size. As we would prefer not to buy alloy wheels for winter tires, we are considering either staying with 18" tires or going down to 16".

The Nokian Hakkapeliitta SUV is available as a 235/60TR18XL. The variance is -3.1%.

It also is available as a 255/70TR16. The variance is 0.1%.

Both tires exceed the Goodyear Eagle's load rating.

Is either tire a safe, desirable choice?

If not, can someone recommend an alternative?

Thanks in advance.

David G.

pmw0826

I, too, am perplexed about tire choices for winter use. I, too, have used Nokians for many years. The 235/60R18's are, as you said, 3.1% smaller, but would, in my dealer's opinion, work. One also could get 235/75R16's which are virtually the same diameter as the 18's. I have two questions on the 16's. Would the 75 aspect ratio allow for too much flex, and are 16" wheels available for the Murano? Like you, I like Nokians and therefore have yet another question. . . WR SUV's or Hak SUV's? Which one would be best? Anyone out there have answers to any of these questions?

Thanks

kullenberg

If you go with 16" wheels, make sure you have brake clearance.
:confused:

NissanFan

I have just finished looking into winter tire options for my Murano.
Nokian is the only manufacture that I could find with an 18" winter tire - the HAK 235/60R18 XL.

My dealer and many tire shops suggested moving to a 17 inch alloy rim with tire width and aspect ratio that would pretty much match the height of the OEM 235/65's. The 17" rim size opens up the number of available tires considerably. I would have gone that route if I was planning to use the original rims for my summer tires, but I want to use the original rims for winter tires and next spring purchase a set of custom chrome rims for summer use. So I elected to go with the Nokian Hak 235/60R18 XL's. My tire shop is an authorized Nokian retailer and they could not find any of these tires in Canada, I have a set on special order - the will be shipped from Finland, with a 3 week delivery time.

I considered the Nokian WR's (briefly). I did not go that route because in my experience all season tires represent a real compromise in tire performance for just about any condition. I have had the opportunity to compare all seasons vs summer and all seasons vs winter tires on a 280zx, a toyata supra, a 300zx and two Pathfinders. A good winter tire gives far better traction and control, especially on ice, then does an all season. Given the length of winters here in Edmonton I wanted a tire that would provide maximum performance and safety, so I went with the HAK's.

DavidG

Does anyone know the bolt pattern, and any other pertinent characteristics, required for new wheels to fit the Murano?

pmw0826

NissanFan. . .What does your dealer say about the size difference between the 65 and 60 tires? Are you studding the Hak's? Also, what price are you paying?

Thanks!

NissanFan

NissanFan. . .What does your dealer say about the size difference between the 65 and 60 tires? Are you studding the Hak's? Also, what price are you paying?

Dealer sez no problem with size difference. My speedo will report speed about 3% faster then actual (which is not necessarily a bad thing, given my heavy foot!).

I am not studding them. Price: $255Can each, installed and balanced

eager

Nissanfan

Fellow Edmontonian here, 235 per tire I think I will stick with the Goodyears until they die.

I can't beleive how many MO's are on the road here ( there must be a lot of smart people in town) I just did a major road trip through the North Western States and BC and I think I saw more Murano's driving in and out of town than I did on the rest of the trip which took in Calgary, Spokane, Portland, Seattle, Vancouver( twice) , Victoria and home.

Pic Hood River Oregon with windsurfing equipmenttrailer in tow.

Eric L.

quote:
Originally posted by eager
Nissanfan

Fellow Edmontonian here, 235 per tire I think I will stick with the Goodyears until they die.

I can't beleive how many MO's are on the road here ( there must be a lot of smart people in town) I just did a major road trip through the North Western States and BC and I think I saw more Murano's driving in and out of town than I did on the rest of the trip which took in Calgary, Spokane, Portland, Seattle, Vancouver( twice) , Victoria and home.

Pic Hood River Oregon with windsurfing equipmenttrailer in tow.

Good to see that the CVT is up to the task of towing.

muraniac

Hello everybody, this is my first post but I have been reading Murano forums since last May when I got my Pewter SL AWD. There are winter tires specifically made for the Murano by Dunlop. These are 235-65-18, the model is called SJ5 and is supposed to be an upgrade from the SJ4. The nice thing appears to be the price, here in Quebec city they will install it on the car for 158$ CDN each, it is just above 100$ US. I will have mine installed on Nov 3 and I will then be able to comment on overall performance. I was told that this is not the best (Nokian) but a very decent winter tire, much better than any all season. With regard to wheel fitting, I was told by the dealer that they tried to fit other Nissan 16 and 17 inches wheels and that none would clear the massive front brake rotors. Besides the winter tire issue, I am still thrilled with the Murano, after 5 months and 6000 Km. It is my first car bought new and I must say that it looks as a good choice because I have nothing wrong to say about the car or the dealership. My tires were set at 33 psi on delivery and I did not experience any of the noise, hesitation or else reported by a few owners. My Murano was built in April 03.

pmw0826

Has anyone tried to find the Dunlop SJ5 in the US? It isn't on the web page.

dklanecky1

Google isn't much help either......... Looks like not available in the US yet.

muraniac

Dunlop SJ5 are available but they are not even on the Dunlop site. Only a few are aware of their availability, many dealers are not. This is apparently a new tire based on the SJ4. It was tested in Japan and in scandinavia but it is not possible to get any review written in English.

pmw0826

I can't find anything on the SJ5 either. If anyone has anything of substance, please post.

muraniac

You can find some information on the Dunlop SJ4 at this link http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/suv_winter_rd.jsp. I do not know what improvements have been done on it to produce the SJ5.

pmw0826

I did a little research and found that Dunlop does (did) make a tire the Dunlop SP WinterSport M3 in 235/65-18. This is, I believe, similar to the Grandtrek WTM3 which is similar to the SP5. I have yet to find it available. Anyone have any more info.

Thanks

DavidG

According to Bob at Tiretrends.com in Canada, this tire is on factory back order with no scheduled production date.

According to my local tire dealer, Direct Tire, in Watertown, MA, the SJ5 is being test marketed in Japan and parts of Canada. It is not yet DOT-certified, something they expect in time for next year.

On the Pirelli website, I see a Scorpion Ice and Snow sized 255/60HR18. This is only a 0.1% difference from stock. But I cannot find it at tirerack.com.

pmw0826

I visited my Nokian dealer today and he told me that the 235/65R18 HAK SUV's are backordered to the point where they don't think they will have any this year. Apparently there is a new HAK, perhaps the HAK 2, and that will be the new HAK SUV. WR's are available, however. My dealer suggested that, depending on when I take delivery, I run the Eagle LS's through the winter, and make a decision next fall. He did, however, say I would't like the Eagles in the snow or ice. Wonderful:(

DavidG

I called Pirelli, 1-800-747-3554. I was told that, even though the particular Scorpion Ice & Snow is listed on their website, it is not yet in production, and won't be available this winter.

pmw0826

It looks as thought we may be SOL on pure winter tires, at least for now. If you have more information, let us all know. I can tell you that if the Nokian WR SUV's are anything like the old NRW's they will be plenty good enough for winter use as well as all season. I used NRW's on my '90 Audi V8 and they were great, and then used them on my '97 Olds Aurora in place of winter tires. Even with FWD they were great, not as good, obviously, as on the V8, but great. My son-in-law uses them all year on his Olds Intrigue and loves them, so, again, if the WR's are supposed to be a step up, they should be terrific. . .not a true winter only tire, but a great tire all season.

pat

FOLKS!!!!! Winter tires are NOT needed. The factory tires are more that sufficient for the MO. I haven't used winter tires on any vehicles in 10 years and I live in Canada!!!

pmw0826

For many people, even in Canada, that is so. Those of us that live in Central New York, down wind of Lake Ontario, snow is SNOW, and ice is ICE. I have had awd Chrysler vans since they came out in 1991 together with an Audi V8, also awd, and found that winter tires, or at least impressive all season tires like Nokian NRW's or now WR's, are almost essential in this climate. Yes, I have normal non awd vehicles. My summer "toy" is a Saab 9-3 convertible that I have driven in the winter when my kids are home and need by 9-5 wagon, yes, also non awd. The 9-5 gets HAK Q's the same as my T&C. Yes, one can get by with awd and "normal" tires, but for those of us that have to go in all types of weather, not only do we want to go, but we want to stop. That's why folks, like me, like winter tires for the vehicles we want to be able to go anywhere at anytime. Just my two cents. That's also why I an considering replacing the 9-5 with the MO.

NissanFan

quote:
Originally posted by pat
FOLKS!!!!! Winter tires are NOT needed. The factory tires are more that sufficient for the MO. I haven't used winter tires on any vehicles in 10 years and I live in Canada!!!

Pat,
I guess it depends what you mean by "need". If you simply mean that you can get around in winter in the MO with regular tires without getting stuck I agree with you. However, for the maximum margin of safety in braking and cornering, especially on ice, true winter tires are necessary. Consumer Reports testing, plus numerous articles in automotive magazines bear this out.

I drive between Edmonton and Calgary quite year round and usually drive to Winnipeg at every Christmas. I wound not consider doing so in a car equipped with regular summer tires or all season tires.

Just my two cents worth, but I think the provincial government should make true winter tires mandatory on all passenger vehicles and light trucks.

Cheers,
NissanFan.

pmw0826

Just thought I'd give you an update. I e-mailed Goodyear/Dunlop Customer Service in Dayton, Ohio regarding the SJ5. They indicated that they were, indeed, available in Canada, but were on backorder awaiting a shipment from Europe. I called a Northern New York Goodyear/Dunlop dealer who indicated that they did quite a bit of business with Canada and would check the SJ5 out for me. I received a return call indicating that his contacts said there was no such tire. I gave him the name and number of the Goodyear/Dunlop Customer Service representative that e-mailed me, and he said he would call her. I expect to hear from him on Monday or Tuesday. I'll let you know what I hear. As we know there are many winter tires that are close to the 235/65-18 but no exact matches.

Scoobs

quote:
Originally posted by muraniac
There are winter tires specifically made for the Murano by Dunlop. These are 235-65-18, the model is called SJ5 and is supposed to be an upgrade from the SJ4. The nice thing appears to be the price, here in Quebec city they will install it on the car for 158$ CDN each, it is just above 100$ US.

$158.00 CDN = $120.915 USD not $100.00 USD

$100.00 USD = $130.73 CDN

If you live in Canada you paid more for your Murano than it would cost in the U.S. even after the exchange rate. Nissan's prices seem to be based on what the Cdn dollar was worth over 1 year ago. Car manufacturers in Canada are now hosing the Canadian consumer because most consumers don't realize that the CDN dollar has increased so much in value over the last year.

Scoobs

quote:
Originally posted by pat
FOLKS!!!!! Winter tires are NOT needed. The factory tires are more that sufficient for the MO. I haven't used winter tires on any vehicles in 10 years and I live in Canada!!!

Oakville and the Toronto area are Ontario's version of the banana belt. People in New York get much more snow every year than Oakville. If you spend all of your time driving on the QEW or the Toronto area 401 I don't doubt that you can get by with all-seasons. Drive up to Barrie, Peterborough or KW and it's a different story. There's no substitute for a good snow tire.

pat

YO. I work in Thunder Bay. Learn to drive!

muraniac

I reproduce here a message sent to Dunlop-Goodyear and the reply I have just received. I will have my winter SJ5s put on the Murano next monday. They say that we will get snow here tonight or later this week so I will probably get to test the performance of the all season tires in the snow as well. I will compare and report on their respective performances later next week. Of course the advantage of true winter tires shows more at temparatures below -10 celcius or 14 fahrenheit, I hope I did the conversion well this time Scoobs!

Comments : Dunlop currently manufactures a winter tire for the Nissan
Murano. It is apparently a SJ5 P235-65-18. We do not find information at
any place on the web or in any Dunlop web site. The SJ5 is apparently based
on the SJ4 for which there is also little information. Can you provide some
info. Thank you
Reply : Thank you for your recent email. The Grandtrek SJ5 is a modification of the SJ4, with the same general features and benefits. This tire has been
introduced in limited sizes, to support the new OE fitments. The tire is a
studless winter tire that has off road capability, with a high number of
blades for enhanced winter traction and handling.

Sincerely,Graeme Crawford
Customer Representative-Senior,
Customer Assistance Centre (Canada)

muraniac

Scoobs

quote:
Originally posted by pat
YO. I work in Thunder Bay. Learn to drive!

Part of good driving is equipping your vehicle with the proper equipment for the conditions. Yes I could drive my vehicle in the winter without snows ( I suspect that I have more experience doing this than you having driven my 1975 Trans Am with a 455 HO equipped with summer tires in the snow belt in the 1970's and early 80's until it rusted out ) but it is irresponsible to do so. If you think your vehicle will handle just as well in the snow with all seasons as it will with snow tires you are mistaken. Nissanfan is correct in this regard. A rear drive or front drive vehicle with snows will handle better on snow and ice than an AWD drive running all-seasons. If you've been running all-seasons in the winter for the last ten years you don't know what you are missing. Winter tire technology has advanced remarkably in the last ten years.

By the way. When I was 16 I took driver's training in the winter in Owen Sound. Owen Sound is the 7th snowiest city in Canada receiving on average 347 cm of snow each winter compared to Thunder Bay which is the 47th snowiest city in Canada receiving a piddling 187 cm of snow each year. I also spent a great deal of time driving around Barrie , the 27th snowiest city with 267 cm of snow annually. I have lots of experience driving in the snow.

Cheers

glasse

Winter tires for a Murano?? Makes me think about driving in Minnesota...thought I solved all those winter driving problems by getting a car with VDC and traction control and AWD for our driving in the mountains of Virginia. Has anyone determined if "Winter Tires" will behave with the various systems I mentioned?
Take care out there.

Scoobs

ABS (Anti-Lock Brake) and AST (Traction Control) Systems
While anti-lock brakes, traction control, and vehicle stability systems help make it easier to utilize your tire�s full potential, none of these systems actually provides more traction. These systems are only capable of manipulating or limiting your vehicle�s acceleration, braking and cornering capabilities to the traction provided by your tires.

Anti-lock braking systems help prevent locking your tires and skidding by selectively releasing pressure and pumping the brakes. So while your anti-lock brake system helps maintain steering control and directional stability, your stopping distances may be longer.

On the other hand, traction control helps prevent spinning your tires by reducing the engine�s power and/or applying the brakes. So while traction control also helps maintain directional stability, your acceleration may be slower.

And the vehicle stability systems that sense when your car �deviates� from your intended course (determined by your steering and braking input) selectively brakes any of the four wheels and/or reduces engine power to help correct oversteer or understeer. Yet no system, regardless of how sophisticated, can repel the laws of physics or overcome careless driving actions when you exceed the capabilities of your tires.

4WD (Four-Wheel Drive Systems)
Four-wheel drive cars, SUVs and light trucks have become very popular among drivers living in the snowbelt. While their year round versatility certainly plays a role, they are often selected primarily because their four-wheel drive systems make winter driving easier.

The ability of a four-wheel drive system to divide the vehicle�s power among all four tires provides a real advantage when accelerating on slippery roads. A 200 horsepower rear wheel drive vehicle with a limited slip differential requires enough traction from each tire to accept about 100 horsepower. The best four-wheel drive systems divide that same 200 horsepower among all four tires. Each tire then requires only enough traction to transmit about 50 horsepower. Doubling the driving wheels virtually doubles the acceleration on slippery surfaces.

However, it is important to remember that while the four-wheel drive vehicle�s ability to accelerate in slippery conditions provides a lot of confidence, it doesn�t really offer any unique advantage when the vehicle has to stop or turn. This is because the other vehicles also use all four tires to provide braking and cornering traction. Since four-wheel drive vehicles actually weigh more than their two-wheel drive counterparts, bringing them to a stop or turning a corner actually requires more traction.

So, whether your vehicle has anti-lock brakes, traction control, a vehicle stability system or four-wheel drive, it is your tires that provide the real traction. Obviously, the more tire traction these systems have to work with the better. Since most vehicles (including light trucks) are originally equipped with all-season tires, optimizing these systems� capabilities on snow and ice requires installing winter tires.

Eric L.

I think if you get lots of snow and need to drive a long commute, winter tires are a sensible option.

However, the message here seems to be that if you will be driving in snow, then you need winter tires, which for most people is probably not true. The logic of "vehicles are equipped with all-season tires" from the factory, so when it snows you need to get winter tires is rather extreme. If this is the case, the Murano might as well come with high performance summer tires which perform better in the majority of situations the vehicle will be driven in, with the expectation that winter tires would also be needed later on.

I think our friends here who live up North have a very legitamate reason to drive with snow tires. Its the way people do things there, so nothing wrong with sticking to tradition if that makes you feel safer when you drive. I just think this entire winter tire thread is making people who otherwise do not need winter tires rather paranoid that they absolutely require it.

Scoobs

First of all, AWD/4WD is not a panacea for all the ills of winter driving. Sure, you have instant traction when the light goes green. But, and this is a big BUT, braking and steering are compromised, particularly when the pavement's really slick.

Why, you ask. Surely with all four wheels driving the vehicle I have better all around traction. Therein lies one misperception: all four wheels driving or "pushing" the vehicle along tends to overpower the brakes and steering. This situation is compounded by the propensity to use all season tires that just plain don't offer the traction advantages of winter tires.

So, here's what happens. You stand on the gas and the vehicle leaps forward leaving the two wheel drive units spinning their drive wheels. Your immediate reaction is, "Hey, it's not so slippery."

False signal! The truth rears its ugly head when you've got the vehicle up to a speed that might be too fast for conditions and you have to stop quickly or take evasive action. Or, out on the highway, you find yourself drifting along in your "safety" cocoon until a long sweeping curve appears on your screen and next thing you know the vehicle is not responding to steering inputs.

You're asking four little tire contact patches (combined area about the size of a sheet of stationary) to deal with speed too fast for conditions, brought about by a false sense of available traction, to gain enough adhesion to either slow a heavy vehicle or enable it to track around the curve.

You realize your vehicle is heading off the road. Your eyes lock on the ditch or guardrail and you stomp on the brake pedal. At this stage, ABS isn't going to help. Your vehicle will likely leave the paved portion of the highway at a speed higher than a lighter, two wheel drive vehicle. If you manage to get it stopped without being tripped up and tumbling over, you will be much further off the road.

Eric I posted this before I had a chance to read your post so don't take it as a reply to your post. I agree that if you are not likely to encounter snow you don't need snows. If you live in an area that gets snow regularly in the winter, which does happen in Ontario, snows should be on the vehicle.

thecanuck

quote:
Originally posted by kullenberg
If you go with 16" wheels, make sure you have brake clearance.
:confused:

My dealer just did a test this past weekend with 16" on the MO. No go. Not enough clearance for the rotors, especially during any periods of wheel flex. Good call kullenberg.

Snowride

After seeing the availability problems for winter tires, I did order a set of Dunlop SJ5. Supposed to have them within the next 2 weeks. Picked them up for $130 cdn installed. (don't expect to pay this low price, my very good friend owns a tire shop :2: )

Unless this site has a misprint, it looks like Michelin makes Pilot Alpins in our size. At least in Czechoslovakia. I do think this is a misprint though. http://www.epneumatiky.cz/ModelPage...=2019&DPG=73287

Can't read a word but at least you can get a look at the SJ5 tread here. http://www.dunlop.co.jp/tyre_d/wt/t...lineup/sj5.html

The tread is not too aggressive so that should help with noise and the small slits will make it a good ice tire.

pmw0826

I'm reviving this thread since winter will be with us in a few short months in the snow-belt of upstate New York. Does anyone know if there are any new snow tires in the 235-65 18 size? I think I'll go with the Nokian 235-60 18's if not?

ekaxel

I have 235/65-17s. 17" tires and wheels to fit are a lot more plentiful and lower cost than 18s. Difference in diameter is about 1/2".

pat

again...MO's do not need winter tires...I live Canada and do not need them..drive it

ekaxel

I live in Portland. OR. It doesn't snow often here. I live in a hilly neighborhood and have a 30 degree driveway. I needed the snow tires AND CHAINS to get out of my driveway and around the neighborhood this winter. I also put them on when driving up Mt. Hood, and when I drive to Big Mountain in Montana to ski. The law here in the Northwest requires traction tires in the passes and mountains.
The Goodyears are absolyutely awful in snow and ice!

dklanecky1

quote:
Originally posted by ekaxel
The Goodyears are absolyutely awful in snow and ice!

It's been my unfortunate experience with GoodYears that the Snow and Ice performance drops dramatically after 20k.

I'm up to about 27k now and am seriously thinking about replacing my OE tires just for the winter.

We got off really easy last winter and I suspect this year we'll pay dearly with twice as much snow and ice.:(

pmw0826

My MO was brand new last winter so the Goodyears worked ok. But, as I said, I live in the snow belt of upstate NY and need to drive, weather or not, so this year, with miles on the Goodyears, I'll get snows mounted on my second set of MO wheels. Am still wondering if there are any exact size snows? If not, I definitely will get the Nokain 235/60's.