| pob312 |
Post the before and after dyno results ASAP.
The numbers will help us determine the value of this mod. |
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| Hilbe |
quote:
Originally posted by pob312
Post the before and after dyno results ASAP.
The numbers will help us determine the value of this mod.
I already have the Injen CAI so I can't really do a stock comparison. I have no idea where I can get it dyno'd cheap here in Columbus OH.
Where is the ECU located, and does anyone have an install (or ECU access) how-to? |
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| pob312 |
For the DIY instructions, I'd call/write the manufacturer.
For local dyno time/rates, I'd do Google.
Although you're starting with the intake mod, the net change in performance would be useful info.
Any plans for NOS next? |
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| Hilbe |
quote:
Originally posted by pob312
For the DIY instructions, I'd call/write the manufacturer.
For local dyno time/rates, I'd do Google.
Although you're starting with the intake mod, the net change in performance would be useful info.
Any plans for NOS next?
No other mod plans. I was debating a Carputer but relocating the stock orange screen turned out to be more work than I wanted. |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by pob312
Any plans for NOS next?
Nitrous?! You are kidding, right?
-njjoe |
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| Hilbe |
quote:
Originally posted by pob312
For local dyno time/rates, I'd do Google.
I've heard its quite pricy to do an AWD vehicle dyno. I am debating taking it to my local Unichip tuner if the cost isn't insane.
Waiting now for it to ship.... |
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| Hilbe |
| I just got the Unichip guys to email me the install PDF. Unfortunately the file is 292k and the forum is rejecting my upload. The install seems easy... |
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| njjoe |
hilbe-
Is your MO FWD or AWD? The reason I ask is because the transfer case is the MO's Achilles Heel. If the mod enables the VQ to generate enough torque to spin the wheels it is very likely the transfer case will let go.
-njjoe |
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| Hilbe |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
hilbe-
Is your MO FWD or AWD? The reason I ask is because the transfer case is the MO's Achilles Heel. If the mod enables the VQ to generate enough torque to spin the wheels it is very likely the transfer case will let go.
-njjoe
AWD...so we'll see. |
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| njjoe |
Hilbe-
What are your expectations as far as HP and torque improvements are concerned?
-njjoe |
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| Hilbe |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
Hilbe-
What are your expectations as far as HP and torque improvements are concerned?
-njjoe
Here is what the guy from Unichip says:
quote:
Unfortunately we do not have Dyno data, or show that we support it on the website at this time. And while you are correct, the 2340031 is the correct part number for that specific application – we do not have its current Dyno data, hence why it is not listed as a supported application on our website.
What I can tell you is that other 3.5L engines in that class gained anywhere from 15-20 bHP and 15-25 ft/lbs of torque with the addition of the Unichip.
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| Kris |
| What about fuel economy? Is it affected? |
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| Hilbe |
quote:
Originally posted by Kris
What about fuel economy? Is it affected?
Their website claims "same or better" fuel economy. Mine is showing status "On Order" from Auto Anything. We'll see. Auto Anything has a good return policy, if it sucks I'll return it...that simple. Someone on the gallery already has it and claims a speed boost. I posted some questions to that user in that thread... |
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| Gonzo |
| Wow, more power and better fuel economy.... please be careful. |
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| Kris |
quote:
Originally posted by Gonzo
Wow, more power and better fuel economy.... please be careful.
Yup! Every time I see similar claim I am more than suspicious....performance and fuel economy do not go together.... |
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| Hilbe |
quote:
Originally posted by Kris
Yup! Every time I see similar claim I am more than suspicious....performance and fuel economy do not go together....
Why not? I have a CAI and it gives more power and fuel economy. For a CAI its simple physics...more air flow and the same amount of fuel equals larger explosions on the same amount of fuel.
I'm not sure how this thing is going to do something like that...or if it does it all. I've been reading other car forums. Some claim improvements, some claim none, and some claim losses. I'm going to try it out, if it stinks its going back...
P.S. I have CAI's on both my '04 Murano and '04 Maxima...love them :) |
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| SIM |
There is no such thing as better performance and better fuel economy. They are opposite. This is combustion 101.
The more air you bring in a combustion chamber and the more gas it takes to make the mix right. It will give you more power of course. The ideal (stoichiometric) mix is always the same (more or less 14.7:1), so if you increase the air ratio, the computer will automatically increase the fuel ratio to keep the mixture balanced.
If there is more fuel than air in this 14.7:1 ratio, the mixture is said to be rich. If there is more air than fuel, the mixture is said to be lean. The amount of fuel metered into the air is varied in relation to the amount of air coming in the combustion chamber.
What this means is that performance has a price in ALL situation. There is no exception. |
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| Hilbe |
quote:
Originally posted by SIM
The ideal (stoichiometric) mix is always the same (more or less 14.7:1), so if you increase the air ratio, the computer will automatically increase the fuel ratio to keep the mixture balanced.
Forgot about the correction going on with the computer. Assume the Unichip fools with the ratios a lot. We'll see... |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by Hilbe
Why not? I have a CAI and it gives more power and fuel economy. For a CAI its simple physics...more air flow and the same amount of fuel equals larger explosions on the same amount of fuel.
I'm not sure how this thing is going to do something like that...or if it does it all. I've been reading other car forums. Some claim improvements, some claim none, and some claim losses. I'm going to try it out, if it stinks its going back...
P.S. I have CAI's on both my '04 Murano and '04 Maxima...love them :)
Actually, the ideal stochiometric ratio of air to fuel is always the same from my understanding, so if you get more air flow, you will also get more fuel sprayed in as well (as the ECU tries to keep the ratio as close to ideal as possible), and thats what gives you more power (more air AND fuel). Obviously this combination cannot lead to more fuel economy, unless you accelerate more quickly and get up to cruising speed more quickly, and then cruise (which does save gas vs speeding up and slowing down). |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by Hilbe
Forgot about the correction going on with the computer. Assume the Unichip fools with the ratios a lot. We'll see...
Fool with the ratios and you can run too rich (poor efficiency) or too lean (detonation, high engine temps) - neither of which are ideal. I guess we'll see how it works when someone tries that unichip, although the CVT is not the best platform to be adding significant power to (although a few should be fine). |
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| SIM |
Eric,
This assumption is so wrong. Accelerating to 60 MPH with the pedal to the metal will cost a lot more than doing the same as if there was an egg under the pedal and you did not want to mess your carpeting. Even if you cruise longer since you got faster up to the best speed. This is so basic that I can only assume that you were joking. |
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| SIM |
It does not matter how a Unichip or any chip will do its thing. The air/fuel mix HAS to remain the same in a combustion engine, no matter which one. So, in essence, if your chip allows more air to make more fuel burn resulting in more power, you'll spend more money at the pump than me but you'll get a little faster to 60 MPH.
Again, this is physic and math 101. |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by SIM
Eric,
This assumption is so wrong. Accelerating to 60 MPH with the pedal to the metal will cost a lot more than doing the same as if there was an egg under the pedal and you did not want to mess your carpeting. Even if you cruise longer since you got faster up to the best speed. This is so basic that I can only assume that you were joking.
Its only my crazy hairbrained idea of how you could possibly get better mileage with an intake. Obviously I don't believe that intakes increase mileage (from my own experience). And it definitely will not work on a MO which has an automatic transmission.
Theoretically an engine is most efficient at wide open throttle since pumping losses are minimized, but you can't go driving around with the pedal to the metal unless you are driving a manual transmission. I think one of the popular mags recently tried this on a BMW 330i and concluded that accelerating at WOT while shortshifting up to high gear to cruising speed led to the highest fuel economy. |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by Hilbe
For a CAI its simple physics...more air flow and the same amount of fuel equals larger explosions on the same amount of fuel.
No, not quite. More airflow and the same amount of fuel would yield a lean mixture and a smaller "explosion".
-njjoe |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric L.
Theoretically an engine is most efficient at wide open throttle since pumping losses are minimized,
Actually, I believe an internal combustion engine is most fuel efficient at it's torque peak.
-njjoe |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
Actually, I believe an internal combustion engine is most fuel efficient at it's torque peak.
-njjoe
I guess I'll have to compromise again - how about WOT at the torque peak? =D
Theoretically if someone could hack it, the CVT could keep one at WOT at low RPMs, the torque peak, or at any engine speed (although it would only be practical at low engine speeds). |
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| Hilbe |
I think we're off topic due to my error earlier.
I called the local Unichip Tuner and apparently they only have a 2WD dyno, so no tuning for me at this point. I'm going to give it a whirl. My current order status is:
Your order has been processed and has been sent to the fulfillment center.
Your order has been sent to the fulfillment center.
Your item is expected to ship from 6/8/2007 to 6/11/2007. Please allow an additional 2-5 business days for delivery. More information
Ships via UPS Ground
Updates to come.... |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by Hilbe
I think we're off topic due to my error earlier.
I called the local Unichip Tuner and apparently they only have a 2WD dyno, so no tuning for me at this point. I'm going to give it a whirl. My current order status is:
Your order has been processed and has been sent to the fulfillment center.
Your order has been sent to the fulfillment center.
Your item is expected to ship from 6/8/2007 to 6/11/2007. Please allow an additional 2-5 business days for delivery. More information
Ships via UPS Ground
Updates to come....
Good luck and let us know how it goes. :) |
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| biggun |
I'm not sure how true the statement is but, the website indicates that it "Maximizes fuel mileage at partial throttle for daily driving—maximizes horsepower at full throttle for performance driving"
They also claim that the performance improvements are based on the unichip combined with air intake and exhaust improvements.
My biggest concern is the comment from the 350Z owner, which would be the closest comparison for the Murano. This is what I grabbed off their website.
Unichip 350z with Pnp Harness
Posted on 03/06/2007 by Michael M. (Jamison, PA)
27 of 30 people found the following review helpful.
"Chip did not work had car dynamometer before and after chip and lost 10Hp with chip.Unichip absolutely no help tried to say speed shop I was using did not know how to dyno (in business over 20years)said the settings on car were wrong even though in FAQ they say "unichip is a supplementary computer, which is programmed to contain optimum fuel and ignition adjustments"."The factory engine management control unit is not altered in any way" Save the aggravation and money. By the way I am 50 years old and this is the first time I ever complained about a product on line."
Note that although the manufacturer claimed 15-20 hp with 3.5 engines, it does not necessarily mean that is what the Nissan 3.5 will get. Alot of manufacturers make 3.5 L engines including Kia, so there claim could be based on another manufacturers engine and not the Nissan engine.
I hope it works out for you.
biggun |
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| Kris |
Somehow I have this feeling that this "unichip" belongs to the category of "turbo fans" etc. The VQ is a good engine, is an amazing engine! And simply adding a piggy back IC, I doubt would improve anything.......
But it is my opinion, the money is yours and it is your decision how are you going to spend it... |
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| Hilbe |
| After finding out I cannot tune this in my area, I think I'm going to cancel my order. It sounded like a good idea until they told me I couldn't tune it here in Columbus....doh. |
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| njjoe |
You would have thought for $671 they would have had better support for their product. Oh well, live and learn.
-njjoe |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
You would have thought for $671 they would have had better support for their product. Oh well, live and learn.
-njjoe
I noticed on their website that for the 350Z, they have different versions for stock, intake, intake + exhaust, etc... - I've never heard of a computer tuner that required a different version for those bolt on mods - it should all be on the same program, with different options - seems kind of stupid to sell a different product if your vehicle has those minor mods. |
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| Kris |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric L.
seems kind of stupid to sell a different product if your vehicle has those minor mods.
Not really. This is all about perception. Think about it "we are so precise, we have product specifically tuned to any combination..." and of course your pocket! :D |
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| SIM |
Guys, in the past I have upgraded a 300TT ECU with great success. A turbo engine is easy to tune up. A few tweaks and you can easily get 75+HP (exhaust, air intake, ECU). Got from stock full boost 9 to 22 PSI with the ECU exchange. But this is a true performance car.
Upgrading the normally aspirated VQ35 is a different thing as all other normally aspirated engine. You will get very modest improvements by installing a CAI and catback exhaust. But you would also need to install headers and precat to really make these changes effective.
Then, and only then can you think about the ECU. The engine has to breathe before anything else and it doesn't matter how big is the intake if the exhaust is the funnel that limits the air flow. These are natural stages to increase power effectively.
By then the tranny and the torque converter will probably die on you so your best option is to replace the MO with the FX35 before starting the upgrade process. |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by SIM
By then the tranny and the torque converter will probably die on you so your best option is to replace the MO with the FX35 before starting the upgrade process.
:4: So true.
I figure it is only a matter of time before some kid buys a MO, installs a nitrous oxide system, and then posts a complaint about the tranny turning in to an IED.:ucrazy:
-njjoe |
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| GripperDon |
AIr
Fuel
Ignition
Temperature
All effect the amount of energy released in the combustion chamber.
The only way "IMO" that an after market chip can improve the engines "Performance" is to assume that the Factory Chip is not doing the best job possible. This is a reasonable assumption given that it is also probably trying to minimize emissions.
So IF and Only if the new chip produces a better combination of Ignition timing and control of the Air Fuel ration will things be better.
A before and after Dyno is mandatory for me to believe, I am ready to believe but as Ronald Regan said "Trust but Verify" |
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| mrntd |
Hey I'm in Columbus also.
AWD Dynos:
IPS motorsports
Slow Motion
You can can both power and mpg from a chip or a tuning change. Almost every car runs too rich so there is left over fuel to light the cat. So leaning out the mixture can optimize the combustion giving you better power and mpg. Adjustments in timing will also provide benefits. A lot of ECUs run some what detuned due to variances of fuel quality and maintenance levels.
Thanks are better today than they were in the card and distributor days but the concepts are the same. I have tuned many of both.
Technosquare, Inc does a lot of ECU upgrades for Nissans. I talked to them last year. They found a lot of HP in the higher RPM range. But didn't release the product for fear of the CVT strength.
I think there is good potential in changing the Y pipe area under the engine. |
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| Hilbe |
quote:
Originally posted by mrntd
Hey I'm in Columbus also.
AWD Dynos:
IPS motorsports
Slow Motion
You can can both power and mpg from a chip or a tuning change. Almost every car runs too rich so there is left over fuel to light the cat. So leaning out the mixture can optimize the combustion giving you better power and mpg. Adjustments in timing will also provide benefits. A lot of ECUs run some what detuned due to variances of fuel quality and maintenance levels.
They are not the Unichip authorized tuners. I think you need some special gear to tune the Unichip. I ended up canceling my order for that reason...
If anything I'm probably going to put on the NissanWorks phenolic spacers, maybe a Kinetix Racing IM, and maybe a Y-Pipe. |
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| njjoe |
:eek: WOW!! $746 for 7.1 horsepower?? That equates to $105 per Clydesdale. That's steep by anyone's standard.
-njjoe |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
:eek: WOW!! $746 for 7.1 horsepower?? That equates to $105 per Clydesdale. That's steep by anyone's standard.
-njjoe
Also a decrease of 0-60 by .1s. Not sure it is worth the cost, as joe said. |
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| hfelknor |
When reading HP and TQ advances on a Dyno, the important thing is not the peaks.
And 7HP at the wheels is pretty good.
The important thing is the widths.....
as you can see, it helps HP Mostly from 4000 on up.
That's what you want.
And the TQ?
Adds a lot of wheel TQ down low, and a very flat response.
Gives you a faster 1/4 by .5 seconds?
Excellent.
Again, that's what you want.
I guarantee that you will feel the added TQ if you drive this MO.
I would be happier with a price closer to $400, but that's what you get with a relatively low volume car, with the demographic that we have (SUV, Not much Towing, not much racing, etc)
They don't have a huge audience.
BTW, this will be noticeable to the Murano Towing community.
Homer |
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| njjoe |
When looking at the graph I was a bit puzzled by the mid-range flat spot, but then I remembered reading about the VQ's "power valve". It is a butterfly valve in the intake manifold that opens up at 3,600 RPM. It's purpose is to improve breathing at the higher engine speeds. While it may, in fact, improve high-rpm breathing, it certainly has an adverse effect (as evidenced by both the HP and TQ curves) upon it's initial opening.
-njjoe |
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| hfelknor |
Ah, that explains that........
My SHO had the same thing even though it had both long and short runners.
Homer |
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| Hilbe |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
When looking at the graph I was a bit puzzled by the mid-range flat spot, but then I remembered reading about the VQ's "power valve". It is a butterfly valve in the intake manifold that opens up at 3,600 RPM. It's purpose is to improve breathing at the higher engine speeds. While it may, in fact, improve high-rpm breathing, it certainly has an adverse effect (as evidenced by both the HP and TQ curves) upon it's initial opening.
-njjoe
Some of the Altima guys have taken that thing off. One of the Altima guys actually sell a $20 or so block off plate you can put over the hole for the butterfly valve. Some claim power gains, some claim its not great for daily drivers (track only value added). To each his own... |
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| Nuf.Evah |
| Stock tranny and more torque should scare you if you are out of warranty!!! LOL!!! $$$ |
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| nightghost |
| you have to but in ur mind that 7.1HP and 12.3T on wheel is very good and this is on stock car but if u fix a Exhaust and CAI it will make more different than stock cause the original ECU is programing with the normal intake and Exhaust. |
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| Tyler_Canada |
Actually I'm pretty sure it opens at 4000 rpms, which is the low point. You can hear a big difference when it opens if you have an intake.
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
When looking at the graph I was a bit puzzled by the mid-range flat spot, but then I remembered reading about the VQ's "power valve". It is a butterfly valve in the intake manifold that opens up at 3,600 RPM. It's purpose is to improve breathing at the higher engine speeds. While it may, in fact, improve high-rpm breathing, it certainly has an adverse effect (as evidenced by both the HP and TQ curves) upon it's initial opening.
-njjoe
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