| UPBB |
| Hi, I am wondering about the Murano's towing characteristics. I live in mountainous terrain, and I would mainly be pulling my boat. My boat weighs (rough calculation) is 2783 lbs. I believe the towing capacity is 3500 lbs. I was wondering if the SUV could pull the boat in mountainous terrain? Could the transmission handle the load? Also, kinda OT, but how high off the ground is the ball of the hitch? |
|
|
| HuskyFan |
quote:
Originally posted by UPBB
how high off the ground is the ball of the hitch?
My hitch receiver is 15 inches above ground, the ball mount adds 1 inch and the ball adds 2 inches for a total of 18 inches above the ground. |
|
|
| manitoba murano |
Different hitch receviers are different heights, it depends on what you install. You can get different mounts that raise or lower by a couple inches, so roughly 15" is about average.
As for towing, Nissan says 3500lbs max, but I would personally avoid the Murano if you are going to be towing close to the max rating, regularly, particularly through hilly terrain. Just my personal opinion, but I don't think that a CVT transmission is very well suited to towing. It is really set up to work with the vehicle weight, and I can't imagine putting a heavier load on it does anything but severely decrease it's life-expectancy and durability. Of course, this is the case when towing with any type of tranny (even manuals where extra heat is generated due to the increased loads), but I'd put the CVT at the bottom of the list of tranny types that are best suited to towing. They may all break eventually, heck they may even all break after the same amount of duty, but the CVT is ridiculously expensive to repair (ie/replace).
I imagine the feeling of towing a load, up a hill, would be equivalent to what we experience when putting the throttle down on a road to overtake someone. It is the same feeling you would experience when a clutch in a manual tranny slips under high torque loads. The engine revs, but the forward motion doesn't increase accordingly. In a CVT, the tranny does eventually 'lock' in, and the acceleration does begin to match the increase in engine revs, but I would think that a heavier load going up a hill would mean more slippage for a longer period of time, resulting in much more wear and tear on the tranny.
If you're going to tow, I would seriously consider something with a conventional tranny. As much as I like the Mo, I don't think it's particularly well suited to regularly towing duties. |
|
|
| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by manitoba murano
The engine revs, but the forward motion doesn't increase accordingly. In a CVT, the tranny does eventually 'lock' in, and the acceleration does begin to match the increase in engine revs, but I would think that a heavier load going up a hill would mean more slippage for a longer period of time, resulting in much more wear and tear on the tranny.
MM-
NO, NO, NO, that is NOT slippage. That is just the CVT dropping down to a lower pulley ratio to keep the engine at the optimum RPMs to generate the power required. Running at the lower ratio is actually beneficial to the life of the tranny. It is still doing the same amount of work but under a reduced component stress load.
-njjoe |
|
|
| Eric L. |
Since the MO has a torque converter, I think that is the component that will absorb most of the "slippage" under a heavy load, and not necessarily the CVT itself. That will heat up the CVT fluid more than normal though.
Joe is correct - I think the CVT will be fine for towing if you keep it within the recommended towing range (max 3500 lbs). |
|
|
| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric L.
Since the MO has a torque converter, I think that is the component that will absorb most of the "slippage" under a heavy load, and not necessarily the CVT itself.
E-
The MO has a "lock-up" torque converter. It will remained locked-up until the vehicle speed drops below approximately 8 mph.
-njjoe |
|
|
| manitoba murano |
I understand that this sensation is not entirely due to slippage, but the feeling/sensation is the same as in a manual tranny where the clutch is slipping--just trying to paint a pic for someone who hasn't driven this car yet.
And there is some slippage regardless, between the belt and the 'pulleys', or whatever they're called, that drive the belt. As they open and close to change the effective 'gear' ratio, the belt rides up and down, and it does slip as it does so. There is also the slippage/friction on the belt and these 'pulleys' during normal operation when the ratio is fixed, which would increase under heavier loads. Increased heat and friction would also wear out the tranny fluid much sooner, resulting in more frequent changes for the very expensive fluid.
Regardless, IMO, the MO's tranny is not ideally suited for regular towing near the capacity, particularly in hilly terrain. As much as I like the MO, it does have it's limitations, and heavier duty usage is definitely one of these limitations.
As with any vehicle, heavy usage will result in more wear and tear, and repair bills will be the end result. Since the repair and maintenance bills on the MO's tranny are likely to be higher than those on any conventional tranny, why risk it?
Buy a vehicle that is built for heavier duty usage. Even though a class II capable vehicle (3500lbs) CAN tow 3500lbs, you are much better off buying something that CAN haul a large load, and something with a more conventional transmission. I'd suggest a 4Runner, Pathfinder, Armada, Explorer for regular towing duty--or any of the light to mid-duty pickup trucks from any of the various manufacturers for that matter--before I'd suggest the MO for someone who tows with it regularly. |
|
|
| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
E-
The MO has a "lock-up" torque converter. It will remained locked-up until the vehicle speed drops below approximately 8 mph.
-njjoe
I know that. Torque converters can unlock at any speed though, especially under load. The lock up function is generally used for maximum fuel efficiency I think. On my Maxima, I could feel my torque converter locking and unlocking in high gear and it only locked when I was cruising, not accelerating. Maybe its different on the Murano. |
|
|
| njjoe |
E-
Yes, it is different for the MO. The Service Manual indicates the TQ is locked-up at all throttle openings once the vehicle speed exceeds approximately 8 MPH.
-njjoe |
|
|
| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
E-
Yes, it is different for the MO. The Service Manual indicates the TQ is locked-up at all throttle openings once the vehicle speed exceeds approximately 8 MPH.
-njjoe
I believe it lists a "lockup range" but doesn't mean it cannot lock and unlock at those speeds as well. From what I understand about lockup, its strictly an efficiency measure and the strategy on other automatics is that if you let off the gas or floor it, the lockup disengages. Yes the MO's can lockup earlier and under normal driving situations I'm sure it does, but under towing or heavy load I bet it is constantly locking and unlocking due to rapid changes in engine speed that the CVT can handle with its infinite shifts.
The FSM shows it takes engine speed, throttle position, pulley ratio, CVT fluid temp, etc.. into consideration for lockup, so its not just a vehicle speed "step function." |
|
|
| CP-Mike |
All this speculation about slippage and whether or not the tranny can handle the load is interesting, but as somebody who has actually towed heavy loads with my Murano (many times) I feel like a healthy dose of first-hand experience is just what this thread needs.
I haven't towed on winding mountain roads, but I have towed my 1800-lb-curb-weight boat and trailer all over California, including up and down the Grapevine. I've also towed cargo trailers that weighed around ~3000 lbs back and forth between Los Angeles and San Luis Obispo.
I've found the Murano to be a capable tow vehicle. On the big hills, sure it has some trouble maintaining 55 mph, but hey not many tow vehicles can do it without breaking a sweat. I really like the CVT for hills. You can make it up with a reasonable RPM as opposed to some cars stuck in fourth gear at like 5000 rpm whining like a sewing machine. Road manners are also good. Even when towing the big cargo trailers, I never experienced any tail-wagging-the-dog scenarios. My Murano easily pulls boats out of the water even on steep launch ramps. Front wheel drive doesn't seem to hinder it; I've never spun the tires.
Overall I really like the Murano's towing. There's not many cars that can do double duty of looking pretty when pulling up to a fancy event AND getting down and dirty pulling boats and cargo trailers all while being super comfortable inside. (Can you tell I love my car?)
So I'm not going to say that it's going to be the best option for towing heavy loads in the mountains, but I think it's a viable option if the trade-off of not having a "dedicated" tow vehicle but having more comfort and "curb appeal" are worth it to you. |
|
|
| mgthe3 |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric L.
I believe it lists a "lockup range" but doesn't mean it cannot lock and unlock at those speeds as well. From what I understand about lockup, its strictly an efficiency measure and the strategy on other automatics is that if you let off the gas or floor it, the lockup disengages. Yes the MO's can lockup earlier and under normal driving situations I'm sure it does, but under towing or heavy load I bet it is constantly locking and unlocking due to rapid changes in engine speed that the CVT can handle with its infinite shifts.
The FSM shows it takes engine speed, throttle position, pulley ratio, CVT fluid temp, etc.. into consideration for lockup, so its not just a vehicle speed "step function."
I don't know how I missed this... I may have been on vacation...
Eric is right. The Mo, and ALL automatic Xmissions, with electronic lockup TC's lock and unlock in all gears/gear ratios.
I've complained here about the ease of unlocking ours.
I would like it if the engineers upped the throttle input threshold for unlocking ours.... :D |
|
|
|
