| njjoe |
Try this...
http://www.eneos.us/web/cvt_fluid.aspx
According to the website...
Blended from high-performance base oils and carefully selected additives, including friction modifiers, detergent-dispersants, oxidation inhibitors, viscosity index improvers, corrosion inhibitors, and defoaming agents, ENEOS CVT Fluid is a well-balanced fluid specially designed for automobiles with metal-belt CVTs.
Who knows, it may even be possible that NIPPON OIL, Japan's largest oil company, is the OEM supplier for Nissan's CVT fluid.
-njjoe |
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| hfelknor |
It's also possible that it is compatible with Nissan CVT fluid NS 1, which is NOT compatible with Nissan CVT fluid NS 2 , which is what the Murano uses.
I wouldn't use it until the compatibility issue is cleared up.
Homer |
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| njjoe |
Homer-
According to the compatibility chart, the ENEOS oil can be used on Nissan's Hyper-CVT and Hyper-CVT M6 which uses NS-1 fluid, and Extronic CVT M6 which uses NS-2 fluid.
The MO's tranny is listed in Nissan's sales brochures as the Xtronic version. Is that the same as the Extronic referenced in the chart? I don't know. I certainly wouldn't risk it unless I knew for certain.
-njjoe |
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| Gonzo |
| Oh you guys are making a big deal about nothing.... for the past 29,000 miles I've been using ATF without any issues. |
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| Gonzo |
| Ok I was kidding.... I wouldn't stray from the Nissan NS2 stuff.... somethings are just not worth it. |
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| hfelknor |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
Homer-
According to the compatibility chart, the ENEOS oil can be used on Nissan's Hyper-CVT and Hyper-CVT M6 which uses NS-1 fluid, and Extronic CVT M6 which uses NS-2 fluid.
The MO's tranny is listed in Nissan's sales brochures as the Xtronic version. Is that the same as the Extronic referenced in the chart? I don't know. I certainly wouldn't risk it unless I knew for certain.
-njjoe
Well isn't that special.
We KNOW that NS 1 and NS 2 are not compatible with each other, so how can a third type be compatible with both?
Homer |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by Gonzo
Oh you guys are making a big deal about nothing.... for the past 29,000 miles I've been using ATF without any issues.
:D :D :D :D :D
Hehe good one! |
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| Eric L. |
Well its possible that NS2 would be compatible with NS1 and not vice versa, much the way Dextron III is compatible with Dextron IIe, but not the other way around for normal ATF. As an example, Redline "D4" ATF is compatible with all Dextron ATF specs, no matter which grade.
As for whether ENOS would work in the MO, I'm not sure I'd take the risk given that one changes the CVT fluid so infrequently, why not just get the OEM stuff. Think about it, even if the ENOS is half the price of Nissan NS-2 (which I paid $15/qt for from Courtesy when I bought 7 quarts), you'd save perhaps $45 on 6 quarts (enough for a drain/refill) or maybe $90 for a dozen quarts (enough for a full flush). I dunno about you, but I pay around $60 to fill up my tank each week on the MO, paying another ~$100 every 30-60k (or 100k to never if you are one of those believers of lifetime fluids or Nissan's mysterious CVT life counter) is not a huge deal. |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by hfelknor
We KNOW that NS 1 and NS 2 are not compatible with each other, so how can a third type be compatible with both?
Homer
H-
We know from experience that NS-2 and regular auto-tranny fluid (ATF) are definitely not interchangeable, but why are you saying NS-1 and NS-2 are not compatible? NS-1 is used in Nissan's Hyper-CVTs which are similar in design to the MO's CVT. Both are "push-belt" CVTs.
-njjoe |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
H-
We know from experience that NS-2 and regular auto-tranny fluid (ATF) are definitely not interchangeable, but why are you saying NS-1 and NS-2 are not compatible? NS-1 is used in Nissan's Hyper-CVTs which are similar in design to the MO's CVT. Both are "push-belt" CVTs.
-njjoe
I think what homer means is that NS-1 cannot be used in the Xtronic CVT. We know this from both accounts posted here about wrong CVT fluid usage and Nissan has a TSB specifically saying NS-2 must be used, not NS-1. |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric L.
We know this from both accounts posted here about wrong CVT fluid usage ...
From what I recall about those cases, it was thought that regular ATF fluid was used in place of the NS-2. NS-1 is used on a type of CVT that is not available in the US, so I doubt it is on the dealers shelves.
-njjoe |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
From what I recall about those cases, it was thought that regular ATF fluid was used in place of the NS-2. NS-1 is used on a type of CVT that is not available in the US, so I doubt it is on the dealers shelves.
-njjoe
Nonetheless I think I read at least one account on this forum where NS-1 was incorrectly ordered by the dealer, and led to transmission damage. I think the owners manual in later Muranos even says to use only NS-2. But if you want to prove this to be incorrect, then go ahead and put NS-1 in your MO. :p |
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| GripperDon |
"Well isn't that special.
We KNOW that NS 1 and NS 2 are not compatible with each other, so how can a third type be compatible with both?"
Well here is an analogy, Blonde's really don't like brunettes, but I am compatible with both.:2: |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by Eric L.
But if you want to prove this to be incorrect, then go ahead and put NS-1 in your MO. :p
Nah, I might be crazy but I am not stupid.
-njjoe |
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| Kris |
I do not see a point in this discussion. CVT replacement cost approximately $6k.
I see absolutely no point risking warranty or CVT repair because I can “save” $60 on CVT fluid replacement. It is typical of American philosophy – cheaper is better, I have to save money!
Think long-term, thing “system”, think tomorrow!
Are NS-1 and NS-2 compatible? Who really cares. Just go and get the right one for the Murano CVT. And remember what Nissan service and users manuals say…..
Oh, and I would be very careful of ebay…..i just “fixed" an individual who was selling manual written by me….and of course he was selling it as his own…..do not trust what is on ebay….CVT is well too expensive to repair to go for any unchecked “alternatives” with fluids…but it is my opinion, you guys know better so go get your cheap stuff and enjoy…. |
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| ekaxel |
1) I take (violent) exception to Kris' implication that I/we look at alternatives because they are cheaper than the recommended fluid. I merely raised the issue for discussion and comment on the forum. For all we know, this oil co may very well provide the fluid to the Nissan factory. I don't have any plans to change mine at all....
2) " NS 1 and NS 2 are not compatible with each other, so how can a third type be compatible with both?" (an aside) GM has Dexron III, Ford hs Mercon, Chrysler has (something), Mercedes has it's own & so on, but Amsoil synthetic ATF is guaranteed compatible with all of them.... |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by ekaxel
" NS 1 and NS 2 are not compatible with each other, so how can a third type be compatible with both?" (an aside) GM has Dexron III, Ford hs Mercon, Chrysler has (something), Mercedes has it's own & so on, but Amsoil synthetic ATF is guaranteed compatible with all of them....
Excellent point!!
-njjoe |
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| hfelknor |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
Excellent point!!
-njjoe
Not really.
All of these transmissions are very similar.
None of those companies build their Transmission fluid.
They are all just marketing names for basically the same stuff, probably built by Dupont.
As long as the replacement equals the most stringent of the requirements, certainly you can use it in all.
This is like saying that some cars have a 8:1 compression and some cars have a 10:1 compression with variable valve train, but you can buy some gas called "premium" that runs in both. DUH.
CVTs are different.
NOTE THAT ATF WON'T WORK IN A CVT.
But "maybe" they are similar within their group.
It "could" be that NS1 is the same as NS 2 with a lighter duty Coefficient of friction.
If so, NS 2 would work in place of NS 1, but not vice versa.
THE PROBLEM IS WE JUST DON'T KNOW.
But I grow tired of this.
I can remember when we discussed things of substance.
Now we set around and discuss whether we should use some foreign fluid in our CVTs, although most of us would go nonlinear if we found out that the dealer put this crap in instead of NS 2.
I KNOW I WOULD.
Homer |
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| ekaxel |
You really DON'T know what the dealer is putting in your CVT! He has compatiblitiy info you will never see because of the profit motive....
Dealers do not use the $18/qt retail packages they sell us. They buy fluids in bulk for their shops. Who knows who the bulk supplier is??? |
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| njjoe |
Homer-
I disagree with you. ekaxel's point is still a valid one. Yes, like you say, most domestic automatic trannys are similar in design, but so are the many variants of belt-drive CVTs utilized by Nissan. All are built by JATCO and employ the push-belt design. Why would it be so hard to believe they could safely utilize a common fluid?
If Nippon is the OEM supplier of Nissan's NS-1 and NS-2 fluids then it is not out of the realm of possibilities that it could develop a fluid that meets the requirements of both, similar to what Dupont has done for conventional auto trannys.
And yes, you are right in saying that we don't know if Nippon's fluid is compatible, that is why we leave it to those who do know. Nippon's engineers have stated that the new fluid is safe for some types of CVTs. Nippon is not some small Internet store. Would Nissan let them make that claim if it wasn't true?
"But I grow tired of this. I can remember when we discussed things of substance." I am sorry that we are boring you with this thread. If this doesn't interest you, then ignore it, don't belittle it.
-njjoe |
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| Kris |
Joe and others,
All this discussion is just speculations……we really do not know what Nissan selected (or rather JATCO) for theirs CVT as q lubricating fluid.. It is quite possible that NIPPON OIL is the OEM. We do not know. And cannot be sure. So we may continue to pursue a “cheaper” or “alternative” option. Still for me right now it is almost pointless. I would not risk warranty or $5k - $7k repairs bill for failed CV due to “wrong” or “incompatible” CVT fluid…..
Ekaxel,
I am sorry if I offended you. It was not meant as a personal attack. I simply pointed fact that American society (or at least I am getting this impression) is obsessed with “getting something for free” or at least “finding the cheapest price”. Note, I did not say “cheapest solution”, I did say price. And I do differentiate between them……
Let’s hope Nissan drops the prices for CVT repairs or some independent shops start doing this job with equal quality but at a lower price. Until this happens I will stay away from any Nissan car equipped with a CVT…
This is only my opinion, but I am entitled to…..
You guys and gals do what is best for you… |
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| ekaxel |
| Sorry you think so little about Americans....... |
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| Kris |
quote:
Originally posted by ekaxel
Sorry you think so little about Americans.......
Ekaxel,
You could not be more wrong! I live in this country because of my own choice, because I like it. And I can live in many countries, legally! And I do respect Americans and all you accomplished. Just certain “issues” just tick me off….and it is one of them….
Now, back to the topic – I will not buy another Nissan equipped with a CVT unless the repair cost is reasonable. I will not buy any other CVT fluid unless approved by Nissan. |
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| Eric L. |
| Another great thing about this country is that we all entitled to respect that individuals are allowed a difference of opinions. Sometimes a contrary opinion is necessary in order to spur improvement and growth, I think! |
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| njjoe |
I have sent emails to Nissan Oil in both Japan and the US asking specifically if Nissan has approved this fluid for use in our beloved MOs.
I will pass on any information I receive.
-njjoe |
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| biggun |
This NEW eBAY vender says this NEW AND IMPROVED Lubricant is compatible with NS-2 fluid and our CVT.
Okay, maybe not.
The point is that I would not trust anything advertised on eBay. Most manufacturers will not even warranty their own product if sold on eBay - so why risk it? |
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| njjoe |
quote:
Originally posted by biggun
This NEW eBAY vender says this NEW AND IMPROVED Lubricant is compatible with NS-2 fluid and our CVT.
Okay, maybe not.
The point is that I would not trust anything advertised on eBay. Most manufacturers will not even warranty their own product if sold on eBay - so why risk it?
biggun-
That is some really deep thinking.
It is Nippon Oil, Japan's largest oil company and the likely manufacturer of NS-2, that is making the claim that ENEOS is compatible with NS-2.
-njjoe |
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| biggun |
quote:
Originally posted by njjoe
biggun-
That is some really deep thinking. It is Nippon Oil, Japan's largest oil company and the likely manufacturer of NS-2, that is making the claim that ENEOS is compatible with NS-2.
-njjoe
njjoe,
I understood that in your first post. But again, that does not mean that Nissan nor NIPPON has to stand by either warranty with the use of that product sold on eBay. PAC and JL Audio products are sold on eBay. But the manufacturers will not warranty their own product period.
How do you know whether the eBay seller is an authorized seller? |
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| njjoe |
biggun-
Good point. :4: Now I see where you were heading.
-njjoe |
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| njjoe |
The following email is from Satoru (Steve) MATSUMURA from Nippon Oil (USA) Limited in Torrance, CA:
Dear Joe,
Thank you for your inquiry about our product.
Here is my answers to your questions.
1) ENEOS CVT Fluid is compatible with Xtronic CVT. (is NOT compatible with Xtroid CVT.)
2) ENEOS CVT Fluid is not approved by Nissan. However, this product has been tested by Nippon Oil, been marketed in Japan for more than 3 years and been sold to many Nissan cars there.
If you have further questios, please feel free to ask me.
Best regards,
I am not surprised by Steve's email, in fact it is what I expected. Of course Nippon Oil tested the product and says it is safe to use, and of course Nissan does not approve of it's use nor want you to buy it.
As the MOs get older and accumulate more miles they will be sold as second-hand and third-hand cars. An 18-year-old motor-head buying a 10-year old, 150,000 mile MO will not want to spend $300 for a tranny flush with OEM fluid. He is going to go down to the local auto store and pick up a case of brand-X CVT fluid.
Here is an interesting thought.... Since Jeep and Dodge are utilizing the same tranny, I wonder what they charge for their version of the NS-2 fluid?
-njjoe |
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| Kris |
Joe,
The response has not surprised me at all. As I said before it is very likely that Nippon Oil is the OEM for Nissan. It is also very likely that Nissan has exclusive right to the CVT fluid. So the only way to put this on the market is to rename it……Nissan will not approve it for a long time. It is a money maker.
However as you said – there is a used car market……so there is place for almost everything.
I stand by my earlier comments – I would not used this fluid if the CVT was under warranty…..unless of course Nissan approves it….. |
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| Eric L. |
quote:
Originally posted by Kris
Joe,
The response has not surprised me at all. As I said before it is very likely that Nippon Oil is the OEM for Nissan. It is also very likely that Nissan has exclusive right to the CVT fluid. So the only way to put this on the market is to rename it……Nissan will not approve it for a long time. It is a money maker.
However as you said – there is a used car market……so there is place for almost everything.
I stand by my earlier comments – I would not used this fluid if the CVT was under warranty…..unless of course Nissan approves it…..
Makes sense. I agree with the not using this while the CVT is still under warranty, just not worth the risk, although I bet the CVT itself won't know the difference. It would be an issue though at the dealership if they found the red Nippon CVT oil in place of Nissan's green stuff. |
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| BlueSteW8 |
If ENEOS (Nippon oil) claims compatability, doesn't that put them on the hook if there are problems?
The price differential is attractive - however, I paid 14.95/qt at Nissan here.
Fluid is expensive to ship due to the weight, and the properties of the shipment itself.
It costs 40.00 to ship 10 liters of oil from CA to MN using UPS 3 Day Ground.
Bottom line?
I changed about 6 & 1/2 qts at 60k miles, and won't do it again until at least 90k miles on the odometer.
Once we are out of (extended) warranty, and I want to do a full "flush" who knows? |
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