another myth??? - Page 3 - Nissan Murano Forum
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post #31 of 57 Old 04-04-2005, 05:00 PM
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Hard to tell wha'ts an April Fool's joke so...

Sorry, where is the idea coming from that N2 leaks slower than a 80%N2 ~20%O2 mix (normal air)? Are we talking about the difference in molecular diameter between N2 and O2? Because if we are, most of the leakage from a tire comes from around the valve and the gaps involved are far in excess molecular diameters. Please tell me this whole thing is a joke

Personally, I'd like to see hydrogen in the rear tires of a 5 second dragster and see if it lights up from the heat

Or how about a mercury-Xenon gas and transparent rubber tires.. you could have HID tires! Ya, I know the fittings might be a bit of a pain to manufacture, and I think the pressures involved when the mercury vaporizes might blow the tire off the rim... but you gotta admit they'd be pimp!
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post #32 of 57 Old 09-07-2005, 10:04 PM Thread Starter
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Just had a meeting with a major corporation. They are manufacturing small Nitrogen generators and are marketing them to tire dealers, service stations etc. They are very serious about their business and gave me a list of Nitrogen advantages. Some of them, I have to agree are eligible. Soon we will see Nitrogen stations in places like Costco etc.




had: 03 MO SL, Gold, 2WD, Premium, leather, sunroof, Mobil 1, B-Quiet, Garmin Nuvi 250W, Fumoto oil valve, HIR's in fogs
08 CTS 304 HP Direct Injection Engine. Fully loaded with every option except AWD
04 FX35, AWD, Touring loaded, Garmin Nuvi 3590LMT, Fumoto oil valve
Dream car: Ferrari Italia
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post #33 of 57 Old 09-07-2005, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kris
Just had a meeting with a major corporation. They are manufacturing small Nitrogen generators and are marketing them to tire dealers, service stations etc. They are very serious about their business and gave me a list of Nitrogen advantages. Some of them, I have to agree are eligible. Soon we will see Nitrogen stations in places like Costco etc.
I thought Costco already uses Nitrogen. I don't really see the advantage as air is already 78% Nitrogen. Can you list some of the ones they have told you?

http://www.mistupid.com/chemistry/aircomp.htm

Former owner of 2004 SL AWD
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post #34 of 57 Old 09-08-2005, 07:24 AM
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Reminds me of something I recently heard about...

A company is SELLING bottles of air. It is supposedly air bottled on some famous field in Whales "where the air is like no other" so that people who know of it can buy it when they are away from home and use it to 'sniff' to remind them of this place.

$40 a bottle. I'm not kidding.
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post #35 of 57 Old 09-08-2005, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, Costco is using Nitrogen. And their equipment is supplied by the same manufacturer I met! Advantages? They spoke of many and I laughed! I said another urban myth……but then after short discussion I had to agree with some: no moisture hence no corrosion. No oxygen – no corrosion. So these two are valid once. Apparently in certain applications it was very important no to have oxygen nor moisture as it extended life of both tires and rims.




had: 03 MO SL, Gold, 2WD, Premium, leather, sunroof, Mobil 1, B-Quiet, Garmin Nuvi 250W, Fumoto oil valve, HIR's in fogs
08 CTS 304 HP Direct Injection Engine. Fully loaded with every option except AWD
04 FX35, AWD, Touring loaded, Garmin Nuvi 3590LMT, Fumoto oil valve
Dream car: Ferrari Italia
------------------------------------------------

"It's not about how fast you go, it's about how you go fast" - Enzo Ferrari
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post #36 of 57 Old 09-08-2005, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kris
Yes, Costco is using Nitrogen. And their equipment is supplied by the same manufacturer I met! Advantages? They spoke of many and I laughed! I said another urban myth……but then after short discussion I had to agree with some: no moisture hence no corrosion. No oxygen – no corrosion. So these two are valid once. Apparently in certain applications it was very important no to have oxygen nor moisture as it extended life of both tires and rims.
That might all be true, but the outside of the tire and the rim experience harsher conditions and makes using pure nitrogen inside the tire a rather moot point for an average street car.

Cartalk's take on nitrogen in tires.




2003 Midnight Blue SE AWD w/VDC
Colgan Bra, Mobil One, JWT POP charger
PAC aux input adapter, hardwired Escort Passport x50, KUDA mount for MP3 player, Porterfield R4S brake pads (now Akebono ProACT), ATE Superblue
Yokohama Envigor (much improved over stock Goodyears)
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R.I.P. 10/15/2015 CVT failure.
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post #37 of 57 Old 09-08-2005, 08:30 AM Thread Starter
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I agree. Though I also spoke with people who had to use Nitrogen to solve some of their problems. Not with the street cars though.....




had: 03 MO SL, Gold, 2WD, Premium, leather, sunroof, Mobil 1, B-Quiet, Garmin Nuvi 250W, Fumoto oil valve, HIR's in fogs
08 CTS 304 HP Direct Injection Engine. Fully loaded with every option except AWD
04 FX35, AWD, Touring loaded, Garmin Nuvi 3590LMT, Fumoto oil valve
Dream car: Ferrari Italia
------------------------------------------------

"It's not about how fast you go, it's about how you go fast" - Enzo Ferrari
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post #38 of 57 Old 09-08-2005, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kris
I agree. Though I also spoke with people who had to use Nitrogen to solve some of their problems. Not with the street cars though.....
Yeah I was not doubting that in some applications nitrogen is a good choice. Just didn't want people here believing that it is something thats a "must have" in our tires.




2003 Midnight Blue SE AWD w/VDC
Colgan Bra, Mobil One, JWT POP charger
PAC aux input adapter, hardwired Escort Passport x50, KUDA mount for MP3 player, Porterfield R4S brake pads (now Akebono ProACT), ATE Superblue
Yokohama Envigor (much improved over stock Goodyears)
Lots of squeaks and rattles.
R.I.P. 10/15/2015 CVT failure.
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post #39 of 57 Old 09-08-2005, 09:32 AM
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I've got an idea.... Let's take the water they use to make beverages, like Coke, Pepsi, etc. and put it in a clear plastic bottle, without adding the other ingredients and sell it for more than the Soda Pop sells for.

What? It's been done? Another missed opportunity.

OK, so what real-world problem does removing the other gases from our mostly Nitrogen atmosphere fix again?

I'm just dumbfounded that a true, but insignificant fact can be leveraged into sales.

Oh wait, let's put a resistor in series with the air sensor and call it a performance increase. What? Missed that one too?

Yeah, I'm joking about it, but I do think this is much more hype than real performance difference.

IMHO of course... But it's not going to hurt to do it!

The Nissan Murano... Love at first drive!
But this is what I drive these days... Does a 12.21 second 1/4 mile @117.7 mph.

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post #40 of 57 Old 09-08-2005, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Just to make it clear:

1. I do not believe Nitrogen improves anything or for that matter is necessary for street cars

2. There might be some applications that it is useful




had: 03 MO SL, Gold, 2WD, Premium, leather, sunroof, Mobil 1, B-Quiet, Garmin Nuvi 250W, Fumoto oil valve, HIR's in fogs
08 CTS 304 HP Direct Injection Engine. Fully loaded with every option except AWD
04 FX35, AWD, Touring loaded, Garmin Nuvi 3590LMT, Fumoto oil valve
Dream car: Ferrari Italia
------------------------------------------------

"It's not about how fast you go, it's about how you go fast" - Enzo Ferrari
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post #41 of 57 Old 10-16-2005, 06:32 AM
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Garage
Larger Molecules

Nitrogen has larger molecules so it won't leak thought the rubber tire- No Joke- Low pressure will cost you gas milage, life of the tire, and safety.

I work on airliners, this is the only thing that the goverment and manufactures will let be used on any aircraft.

Temp flux? Its a tad bit colder at 40K feet, then you go ahead and set down in Arizona. Nothing to worry about.

All F1, CART, IRL, teams use nitrogen in thier tires, I'm not sure about NHRA

Most tire shops are turning to Nitrogen. Costco uses only nitrogen (so it was reported in the news)

Yes, you can replace it with normal shop air

CJB
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post #42 of 57 Old 10-16-2005, 10:07 AM
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Other examples of twisting facts into marketing schemes...

"High Performance Hypergrounding kits"

"Oxygen free copper for Audiophiles"

"80% of Car Audio accessories"

"Billet Aluminum" being used in a description

"Carbon Fibre" patterns stamped on to things

"Monster Cables" Good quality cables sold at 5-10 times their true value.

I'm sure we could build a good list.

As usual, the key here is to take a fact and apply it out of context, or grossly over exaggerate the impact. Then since the fact can be quoted as truth, those that don't know enough to dispute it, hearing it from someone they trust, that is misinformed, makes it believable.

Happens to all of us. Depending on your life experiences, environment, training, work environment, you discover many of them and continue to believe others, not knowing any better.

It's part of my job to help my customers figure out what's real and what's speculation, so I benefit from this in day to day technology. But don't ask me about medical, dietary, lawn care, etc...

Helps sell diet plans too!
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post #43 of 57 Old 02-11-2007, 08:09 PM
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Nitrogen

It was about 3 years ago that the Crew Chief of NASCAR driver Rusty Wallace was fined for using Nitrogen in his tires. He was fined for cheating. If there was no advantage to using Nitrogen, why would he be fined for cheating?

Tom
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post #44 of 57 Old 02-11-2007, 08:52 PM
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Re: Nitrogen

Quote:
Originally posted by tcuillier
It was about 3 years ago that the Crew Chief of NASCAR driver Rusty Wallace was fined for using Nitrogen in his tires. He was fined for cheating. If there was no advantage to using Nitrogen, why would he be fined for cheating?

Tom
NASCAR teams take a pound of weight off their cars by shaving a tenth of an ounce from 160 different places. The winning margin in a 500 mile race is often measured in seconds. If using nitrogen-inflated tires gives them a five-second advantage over a 2-1/2 hour, 500 mile race, then that is significant. Can you say the same about your MO? The potential advantages of using nitrogen in a 100-mile tire on a 200MPH car is a bit different than in a 45,000-mile tire on a 65MPH car.

Tom, don't get wrong, I am not saying it is not advantageous to put nitrogen in your MO's tires, I am just saying I highly doubt you will be able to notice or record any difference in handling, performance, tire life, traction, fuel efficiency, etc. However, it does sound "technical" to claim you have 100% nitrogen in your tires.

-njjoe

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post #45 of 57 Old 02-11-2007, 08:55 PM
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I agree with joe. While in theory nitrogen is superior, it has little effect under real world non racing driving conditions.




2003 Midnight Blue SE AWD w/VDC
Colgan Bra, Mobil One, JWT POP charger
PAC aux input adapter, hardwired Escort Passport x50, KUDA mount for MP3 player, Porterfield R4S brake pads (now Akebono ProACT), ATE Superblue
Yokohama Envigor (much improved over stock Goodyears)
Lots of squeaks and rattles.
R.I.P. 10/15/2015 CVT failure.
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