AWD Reminder
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I had some snow fall overnight too, and driving around, I got to test out the VDC. I hit some corners at speed, and even accelerated. The VDC isn't very fast in responding, and the rear end kicked out quite a bit before the ABS chatter brought it back around. The system responded so slowly that I was able to countersteer before the VDC even kicked in. But it does work! Pretty amazing system, but you still have to drive it as carefully as you would any other car without these safety systems. It might just be me, but in the snow (i.e. any non salted street) I found even with gentle braking, I engaged the ABS. The Murano's brakes seem very sensitive to that, or maybe the lousy Eagle LS's are just weak in the snow.
On a side note, the contrast between the color of the snow and the color of Enforcer's Murano shows the nice pearl tone of the paint.
On a side note, the contrast between the color of the snow and the color of Enforcer's Murano shows the nice pearl tone of the paint.
Eric, thanks for the reminder to everyone: you still have to be careful. Regardless the road conditions.
I have seen far too many yahoos driving around in their 4WDs in snow and ice as if they were on level, dry pavement. Then they get all torqued out of shape when they still lam into someone, slide off the edge of the world, or just sit & spin. I know of a few cases where someone in a 4WD has caused a major accident with their carelessness then had the gall to tell everyone they injured to sue the vehicle manufacturer because "the 4WD malfunctioned. It didn't prevent a skid in snow and ice."
I have seen far too many yahoos driving around in their 4WDs in snow and ice as if they were on level, dry pavement. Then they get all torqued out of shape when they still lam into someone, slide off the edge of the world, or just sit & spin. I know of a few cases where someone in a 4WD has caused a major accident with their carelessness then had the gall to tell everyone they injured to sue the vehicle manufacturer because "the 4WD malfunctioned. It didn't prevent a skid in snow and ice."
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Went out in the snow today...what a great car!
At one point I was was following and old Pathfinder who kept going sideways as he pulled away from every light. I took great pleasure in (safely!) blowing past him as soon as the road became two lanes.
What really annoyed me was people doing 10 mph when the road was just wet. Blew past them too...
I was a little disappointed in the VDC though. I too got sideways turning right and left and I was counter-steering long before the VDC kicked in. It is probably a good system for drivers with less experience or if you get out of shape in a faster bend.
Looking forward to testing the MO on dry twisty roads. Anyone know any near New York City? All the roads around here are straight, with far to many stop signs and traffic signals.
At one point I was was following and old Pathfinder who kept going sideways as he pulled away from every light. I took great pleasure in (safely!) blowing past him as soon as the road became two lanes.
What really annoyed me was people doing 10 mph when the road was just wet. Blew past them too...
I was a little disappointed in the VDC though. I too got sideways turning right and left and I was counter-steering long before the VDC kicked in. It is probably a good system for drivers with less experience or if you get out of shape in a faster bend.
Looking forward to testing the MO on dry twisty roads. Anyone know any near New York City? All the roads around here are straight, with far to many stop signs and traffic signals.
How do you guys know the VDC is working?
I drove a BMW 2 or 3 years ago with their Dynamic Control and my reactions were much different than yours.
What I didn't like about it was that it was very FAST to go into control.
It was virtually impossible to kick the rear end out.
It took the driving right away from you and SLOWED you down fairly dramatically.
I did NOT like it, but I suppose it was safe.
That is not what is happening here.
How do you know that the VDC is working CORRECTLY?
Homer
I drove a BMW 2 or 3 years ago with their Dynamic Control and my reactions were much different than yours.
What I didn't like about it was that it was very FAST to go into control.
It was virtually impossible to kick the rear end out.
It took the driving right away from you and SLOWED you down fairly dramatically.
I did NOT like it, but I suppose it was safe.
That is not what is happening here.
How do you know that the VDC is working CORRECTLY?
Homer
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You can feel the VDC engage with a cacaphony of ABS chatter (the SLIP light turns on too). On dry roads, it would pretty difficult to engage the VDC, but on the snow, its very easy. Take a corner while accelerating and the rear out comes out almost immediately.hfelknor said:
malaycobra, the dry twisty roads are fun in a MO, too.
We took mine to the mountains back in early November. Being based on the Altima frame and with the large wheels, she handled quite nicely in the curves. Reminded me of the Town Ride: hung in there as if it was on rails.
Nice.
We took mine to the mountains back in early November. Being based on the Altima frame and with the large wheels, she handled quite nicely in the curves. Reminded me of the Town Ride: hung in there as if it was on rails.
Nice.
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33 Posts
My question is this:
Our MO does not have VDC although it does have AWD. The '04 on the lot we wanted simply did not have it, and my wife and I didn't want to wait. What I want to know is if traction control is considered VDC or is the tag for the system that kicks in the AWD when it feels slippage. Or is traction control an added addition to functionality of the AWD?
Anyway, I would be nice to have it, but since I don't I stepped up and purchased 17's with snow tires. The MO performed beautifully over the weekend during our winter storm here in the mountains of Idaho. I suspect it would have been better with a VDC system, but it was pretty dang bomber with the tires-very difficult to break loose upon revving turns in packed snow and uneven slush.
If there were no laws, I would get myself a helmet and a fire suit when driving this thing-I so want to lead foot it when I am behind the wheel in any conditions...
Our MO does not have VDC although it does have AWD. The '04 on the lot we wanted simply did not have it, and my wife and I didn't want to wait. What I want to know is if traction control is considered VDC or is the tag for the system that kicks in the AWD when it feels slippage. Or is traction control an added addition to functionality of the AWD?
Anyway, I would be nice to have it, but since I don't I stepped up and purchased 17's with snow tires. The MO performed beautifully over the weekend during our winter storm here in the mountains of Idaho. I suspect it would have been better with a VDC system, but it was pretty dang bomber with the tires-very difficult to break loose upon revving turns in packed snow and uneven slush.
If there were no laws, I would get myself a helmet and a fire suit when driving this thing-I so want to lead foot it when I am behind the wheel in any conditions...
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The VDC system includes traction control and the tire pressure monitoring system. The AWD is separate from VDC, and functions automatically whether you have VDC or not. However, AWD doesn't do much if you are spinning out a turn, that is what VDC compensates for.trevmiesterj said:My question is this:
Our MO does not have VDC although it does have AWD. The '04 on the lot we wanted simply did not have it, and my wife and I didn't want to wait. What I want to know is if traction control is considered VDC or is the tag for the system that kicks in the AWD when it feels slippage. Or is traction control an added addition to functionality of the AWD?
Anyway, I would be nice to have it, but since I don't I stepped up and purchased 17's with snow tires. The MO performed beautifully over the weekend during our winter storm here in the mountains of Idaho. I suspect it would have been better with a VDC system, but it was pretty dang bomber with the tires-very difficult to break loose upon revving turns in packed snow and uneven slush.
If there were no laws, I would get myself a helmet and a fire suit when driving this thing-I so want to lead foot it when I am behind the wheel in any conditions...
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I too was zipping around in the snow yesterday. The MO drove uphill like there was no snow at all!
I have a question... I was watching various cars go up a snow covered hill. It seemed to me that the Jeeps (Cherokees & Wranglers) were spinning their wheels way more than the cars labeled AWD (Couple of Subaru's and a Saturn Vue). The Jeeps were climbing the hill, but the AWD crowd definitely went up in a much straighter line. Sooooo. What's the difference between AWD & 4WD? From my non-scientific observations, AWD is far superior... Survey says...???
I have a question... I was watching various cars go up a snow covered hill. It seemed to me that the Jeeps (Cherokees & Wranglers) were spinning their wheels way more than the cars labeled AWD (Couple of Subaru's and a Saturn Vue). The Jeeps were climbing the hill, but the AWD crowd definitely went up in a much straighter line. Sooooo. What's the difference between AWD & 4WD? From my non-scientific observations, AWD is far superior... Survey says...???
Are you sure they were 4WD and in 4WD? Were both a front and a back tire spinning?
AWD in the MO engages the rear axle when it detects slip on the front axle. In other words, it engages 4WD when needed. One of the systems, forget which one (TCS?), will detect wheel spin and lightly engage brakes.
Most 4WDs are engaged by the driver. I can only say that spinning the wheels isn't helping, it's actually worse. A case of the operator engaged 4WD and hammered the throttle. See this thread. Slow moving with light brake pressure is the way to go, acts like limited slip. Static friction is higher than dynamic.
On another note, I had a chance to play - abondoned parking lot. These tires don't seem to be very good in the snow, but then the MO is 4000lbs. VDC does work and it cuts in really fast, but it feels like it cuts in slow due to the slippery conditions and momentum - physics, plus it's hard to watch the Slip light and drive at the same time. VDC monitors your steering wheel direction. So, when you yaw (g sensors), VDC cuts in but can't correct the motion immediately due to loss of friction and momentum, you turn the steering wheel to compensate and VDC backs off. What VDC does not do is turn the steering wheel. So if you think it will turn the steering wheel for you to compensate your yaw, it don't. What it does is apply appropriate brake pressure and throttle the engine back to regain friction - contact of tires with the ground. Trying to regain static friction. You still have to point the steering wheel in the right direction to regain control.
As always, let me caveat for the 1000th time, VDC won't correct everything, it has it's limits, you can overpower it IE do something so wrong that not even VDC can save you. But it does help tremendously. And, none of this stuff helps you stop any shorter.
A side note about ABS and EBD. First time I felt it work. It will stop you shorter than not having it. But you still have to plan way ahead and leave a lot of room and go slow in slippery conditions. I could feel it kick in pulsating the brakes and it seemed to pulsate on individual wheels/axles. Will have to relook the system descriptions.
AWD in the MO engages the rear axle when it detects slip on the front axle. In other words, it engages 4WD when needed. One of the systems, forget which one (TCS?), will detect wheel spin and lightly engage brakes.
Most 4WDs are engaged by the driver. I can only say that spinning the wheels isn't helping, it's actually worse. A case of the operator engaged 4WD and hammered the throttle. See this thread. Slow moving with light brake pressure is the way to go, acts like limited slip. Static friction is higher than dynamic.
On another note, I had a chance to play - abondoned parking lot. These tires don't seem to be very good in the snow, but then the MO is 4000lbs. VDC does work and it cuts in really fast, but it feels like it cuts in slow due to the slippery conditions and momentum - physics, plus it's hard to watch the Slip light and drive at the same time. VDC monitors your steering wheel direction. So, when you yaw (g sensors), VDC cuts in but can't correct the motion immediately due to loss of friction and momentum, you turn the steering wheel to compensate and VDC backs off. What VDC does not do is turn the steering wheel. So if you think it will turn the steering wheel for you to compensate your yaw, it don't. What it does is apply appropriate brake pressure and throttle the engine back to regain friction - contact of tires with the ground. Trying to regain static friction. You still have to point the steering wheel in the right direction to regain control.
As always, let me caveat for the 1000th time, VDC won't correct everything, it has it's limits, you can overpower it IE do something so wrong that not even VDC can save you. But it does help tremendously. And, none of this stuff helps you stop any shorter.
A side note about ABS and EBD. First time I felt it work. It will stop you shorter than not having it. But you still have to plan way ahead and leave a lot of room and go slow in slippery conditions. I could feel it kick in pulsating the brakes and it seemed to pulsate on individual wheels/axles. Will have to relook the system descriptions.
"I could feel it kick in pulsating the brakes and it seemed to pulsate on individual wheels/axles. Will have to relook the system descriptions."
It should under the right conditions.
The ABS is 4 channel ABS.
That's the only way VDC would work is with 4 ch.
And the 4 chan ABS is on all Muranos.
Most all cars have 4 ch now.
Homer
It should under the right conditions.
The ABS is 4 channel ABS.
That's the only way VDC would work is with 4 ch.
And the 4 chan ABS is on all Muranos.
Most all cars have 4 ch now.
Homer
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33 Posts
Alright.
I have got it now. Vehicle Dynamic Control is the name of the system that provides traction control. Traction Control is not a buzzword for another system in the AWD.
Have any of you done a test with the VDC off taking a slick corner at speed and then taken the same route with the system on at the same speed? How dramatic is the difference?
I have got it now. Vehicle Dynamic Control is the name of the system that provides traction control. Traction Control is not a buzzword for another system in the AWD.
Have any of you done a test with the VDC off taking a slick corner at speed and then taken the same route with the system on at the same speed? How dramatic is the difference?
Nope. Traction control is what prevents your wheels from spinning when you stomp on the gas in snow or on any slippery surface. VDC applies brakes and/or controls engine output to control the rear end if it starts to take off sideways. There are quite a few vehicles with traction control and no VDC. On my Acura 3.2 they call it VSA which is basically the same thing as VDC, except Acura calls it Vehicle Stability Assist. If I turn off the VSA on my Acura, I still have traction control but will no loger have automated control if the rear end swing out. Get it now?
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On my Acura 3.2 they call it VSA which is basically the same thing as VDC, except Acura calls it Vehicle Stability Assist. If I turn off the VSA on my Acura, I still have traction control but will no loger have automated control if the rear end swing out. Get it now?
I think so.
Really, I am normally not this dense.
I think what I was looking for was to understand that the traction control was a system included in the AWD package, seperate from the VDC system. But in reality, this is the case as outlined by Eric L.
The VDC system includes traction control and the tire pressure monitoring system.
So on your Acura and on the MO, the Traction Control does not fall under the umbrella of vehicles that have no VDC but do have traction control. Since I don't have the VDC, I don't have traction control on my MO.
Do I have it now?
I think so.
Really, I am normally not this dense.
I think what I was looking for was to understand that the traction control was a system included in the AWD package, seperate from the VDC system. But in reality, this is the case as outlined by Eric L.
The VDC system includes traction control and the tire pressure monitoring system.
So on your Acura and on the MO, the Traction Control does not fall under the umbrella of vehicles that have no VDC but do have traction control. Since I don't have the VDC, I don't have traction control on my MO.
Do I have it now?
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