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Since I'm not hearing the fuel pump (at least I don't think I can) I'm starting to think it may be that injector seal folks have mentioned.
I did try that CAT cleaner stuff when it was throwing bank 2 CAT and O2 codes.....seemed to do the trick too, error went away. Effing CATS suck...such problems in the northeast US.
I can sure fire start it if I do the mash start button twice w/o brake, wait 30-60 secs. trick. :)
Well up until this year we had to do emission testing every 2 years on our vehicles that are 10 years old but not labeled as vintage. The government in power now axed the emission testing so I am happy I don't need to worry about it. I found the last time couple times my CAT bank 2 would throw a code just before I was about to my MO in for emission testing. lol
 

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but its still not starting. Got a code reader, Been pulling live data, don't really know if anything seems off. Any advice? I have live data videos should I post them? I don't have any error codes at the moment.
Are you the same poster I was replying to (i.e. Anthony Villa)?
 

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but its still not starting. Got a code reader, Been pulling live data, don't really know if anything seems off. Any advice? I have liv xender discord omegle e data videos should I post them? I don't have any error codes at the moment.
What happens when you press start then take your foot off the brake while it cranks and press on the accelerator peddle? Does it start to fire and stop?

I am finding with my MO if I park it nose up on the drive way that it goes through a start and depending on the nightly temps it will start or stall. But when back into my drive way with the noise down it doesn't stall, leaves me to think there is an issue with the fuel pump. Anyhow the 2009 MO is 11 years old now, I think it's time to buy or lease a new vehicle.

Thanks,
 

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Discussion Starter #25
What happens when you press start then take your foot off the brake while it cranks and press on the accelerator peddle? Does it start to fire and stop?

I am finding with my MO if I park it nose up on the drive way that it goes through a start and depending on the nightly temps it will start or stall. But when back into my drive way with the noise down it doesn't stall, leaves me to think there is an issue with the fuel pump. Anyhow the 2009 MO is 11 years old now, I think it's time to buy or lease a new vehicle.

Thanks,
OK, this is Anthony Villa posting...that wasn't me above with the last 2 posts. BUT I am having the same problem as last winter again with my '09

When nights are below 40 degrees...If I try to start car right in the AM, it cranks but doesnt start...if I press start button WITHOUT STARTING (no foot on brake) and let it sit for 1-2 mins, THEN put foot on brake and restart....it starts fine. SOMETIMES, if I didnt let it sit long enough to prime...it will be in a low power mode...runs but only goes15 MPH or so....gas pedal is unresponsive after about 1/4 pressed. But the longer I let it sit and prime like that, the better it runs when it starts.

I was told this is wither fuel pump, or fuel pressure sensor or something like that. Fuel pump is about $160...should I do that and see?
 

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You should get some better info from others, but to me it sounds like the fuel system is losing pressure and has to be pumped back up. I suspect there's a check valve in the fuel line which is supposed to hold pressure overnight, but which has failed and is letting pressure leak down. Should be a great deal less expensive to replace than a fuel pump, especially if it's outside the fuel tank, which the fuel pump is not.

If that were the case, temperature should not matter - that's the piece that doesn't fit.

It should not be hard to put a fuel pressure gauge into the line and get a pressure reading at night, let it sit for a few hours, then check again.

Let's see what others suggest..................
 
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Usually the "anti-flow back valve" is integrated into the fuel pump itself. Also, in-tank fuel pumps are designed tight enough that they can hold the pressure for days, unless the tank is low and the pump dries out.

With the age of the car, your best bet is to replace the fuel pump itself. That should help solve your cold starting issues.

Good luck.

Have a good day.
 
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Discussion Starter #28
Usually the "anti-flow back valve" is integrated into the fuel pump itself. Also, in-tank fuel pumps are designed tight enough that they can hold the pressure for days, unless the tank is low and the pump dries out.

With the age of the car, your best bet is to replace the fuel pump itself. That should help solve your cold starting issues.

Good luck.

Have a good day.
I was planning on replacing that fuel pump ASAP...so, I've watched enough videos on it. It resides under the rear seat. I've heard getting an inline pressure gauge reading is difficult. (need to find the input and get a gauge adapter in there)
 

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Is the ECM throwing any codes when this cranking no-start problem happens (including freeze frame data)? You said something about O2 sensor codes. What's the problem history for your car as it may be relevant to what's going on in the winter. Also, you indicated in an earlier post (9-10 months ago) that you were going to post some live data. I'd be curious what the readings are for coolant and air intake temperatures when this is happening.

It's interesting that you say the engine fires up fine when you turn on the ignition and wait a minute or two before trying to start, but I don't see how the fuel pump prime has anything to do with that. The prime only lasts 1-2 seconds so it's not clear to me how the extra two minutes will do anything for fuel pressure. I'm not convinced that the fuel pump is the cause here absent other symptoms. Do you notice any other issues that would suggest the fuel pump is on its way out (e.g. lack of power on acceleration, rough running, stalling etc.)?
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Is the ECM throwing any codes when this cranking no-start problem happens (including freeze frame data)? You said something about O2 sensor codes. What's the problem history for your car as it may be relevant to what's going on in the winter. Also, you indicated in an earlier post (9-10 months ago) that you were going to post some live data. I'd be curious what the readings are for coolant and air intake temperatures when this is happening.

It's interesting that you say the engine fires up fine when you turn on the ignition and wait a minute or two before trying to start, but I don't see how the fuel pump prime has anything to do with that. The prime only lasts 1-2 seconds so it's not clear to me how the extra two minutes will do anything for fuel pressure. I'm not convinced that the fuel pump is the cause here absent other symptoms. Do you notice any other issues that would suggest the fuel pump is on its way out (e.g. lack of power on acceleration, rough running, stalling etc.)?
Don't think I'm throwing any codes, at least no lights, I'll hook reader up next time.

The only other thing I notice is sometimes when I don't let it sit for that 1 minute...it starts but runs in a weird low power mode, it sounds fine, but has ZERO acceleration, only goes like 10 MPH if that.

I'll try to hook the code reader to it next time I try to start it. What am I looking for? Coolant and intake temps? (I'll record what you need on my phone)
 

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Don't think I'm throwing any codes, at least no lights, I'll hook reader up next time.

The only other thing I notice is sometimes when I don't let it sit for that 1 minute...it starts but runs in a weird low power mode, it sounds fine, but has ZERO acceleration, only goes like 10 MPH if that.

I'll try to hook the code reader to it next time I try to start it. What am I looking for? Coolant and intake temps? (I'll record what you need on my phone)
It's not throwing any codes when in limp mode? Can your scan tool communicate with the TCM? If not, you can try the CVTz50 app ($5) if you have an android phone/tablet as that can pull transmission codes (if present) that aren't part of the OBDII specification.

When you check out the live data, take screenshots of everything and upload them here. Maybe something will stand out.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
It's not throwing any codes when in limp mode? Can your scan tool communicate with the TCM? If not, you can try the CVTz50 app ($5) if you have an android phone/tablet as that can pull transmission codes (if present) that aren't part of the OBDII specification.

When you check out the live data, take screenshots of everything and upload them here. Maybe something will stand out.
Here's a link to my Live Data read this AM. No codes or Freeze Frame Data present. (I'm a novice at these code reader things) It started RIGHT UP today and it was in the low 40's all night. Weird. Click here for Live Data. Should I drive it around and do this too?
 

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Here's a link to my Live Data read this AM. No codes or Freeze Frame Data present. (I'm a novice at these code reader things) It started RIGHT UP today and it was in the low 40's all night. Weird. Click here for Live Data. Should I drive it around and do this too?
This may not be related to your starting problem, but long-term fuel trims are a bit high (engine running lean). When you get a chance, let the engine warm up to operating temperature (coolant temp greater than 180 degrees) and graph LTFT1 and LTFT2 at idle and then increase RPMs in 500 increments every few seconds up to 3,000 RPMs. How do long-term fuel trims react (you can post another video if you want).
 

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Discussion Starter #34
This may not be related to your starting problem, but long-term fuel trims are a bit high (engine running lean). When you get a chance, let the engine warm up to operating temperature (coolant temp greater than 180 degrees) and graph LTFT1 and LTFT2 at idle and then increase RPMs in 500 increments every few seconds up to 3,000 RPMs. How do long-term fuel trims react (you can post another video if you want).
New videos while in that "low power" mode and immediately after.
LOW POWER LD
DRIVING AFTER NORMAL START LD
 

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New videos while in that "low power" mode and immediately after.
LOW POWER LD
DRIVING AFTER NORMAL START LD
At 0:53 in the "low power" video, TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) is registering 8.2% at 3,000 RPMs! That percentage is something you would see at idle.

Then, a while later you said "1,500"--the engine got quieter so presumably you dropped the RPMs to that range and at 1:44, it showed the following values for throttle position and accelerator position PIDs:

TPS B 7.5%
ACC Pedal D 3.5%
ACC Pedal E 2.7%
Command TAC 7.5%

Again, these values would be normal with engine idling and foot off the accelerator pedal. But, you were at 1,500 RPMs. It even showed 0.0% at 1:43, but I think that was lag with the scan tool updating the PIDs.

This is all interesting because you could rev the engine so the ECM must be ignoring the actual signals and is reporting some baseline values--perhaps because it's in fail-safe? The next time this happens and if you have your scanner with you, just look at the accelerator pedal and throttle position PIDs and see what they register while driving around in limp mode. I'm curious to see what values are reported when the transmission is in gear and you have it floored.

Anyway, when the engine is in fail-safe, there should be associated DTCs to show what triggered the ECM to do this, but you say there are none? Also, you stopped being able to rev the engine as soon as you put the transmission into gear. Did you look into getting the CVTz50 app? It would probably be a good idea to make sure the transmission isn't doing this and that Zurich scanner is not going to be able to pull codes from the TCM.

Notwithstanding, your original complaint is that the car is a cranking no-start when it's sitting overnight in the cold. I still have this feeling that the root cause may be electrical. Are you positive that your battery and alternator check out fine (i.e. you have tested them and they checked out normal)? It may even be a good idea to check those when this issue is happening (...if you have a multi-meter, have it ready for when the cranking no-start happens).

On a side note, you do have a small vacuum leak but that's not the cause of this problem. Check for tears/holes in the air intake tubing and all the vacuum lines running along the intake manifold.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
At 0:53 in the "low power" video, TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) is registering 8.2% at 3,000 RPMs! That percentage is something you would see at idle.

Then, a while later you said "1,500"--the engine got quieter so presumably you dropped the RPMs to that range and at 1:44, it showed the following values for throttle position and accelerator position PIDs:

TPS B 7.5%
ACC Pedal D 3.5%
ACC Pedal E 2.7%
Command TAC 7.5%

Again, these values would be normal with engine idling and foot off the accelerator pedal. But, you were at 1,500 RPMs. It even showed 0.0% at 1:43, but I think that was lag with the scan tool updating the PIDs.

This is all interesting because you could rev the engine so the ECM must be ignoring the actual signals and is reporting some baseline values--perhaps because it's in fail-safe? The next time this happens and if you have your scanner with you, just look at the accelerator pedal and throttle position PIDs and see what they register while driving around in limp mode. I'm curious to see what values are reported when the transmission is in gear and you have it floored.

Anyway, when the engine is in fail-safe, there should be associated DTCs to show what triggered the ECM to do this, but you say there are none? Also, you stopped being able to rev the engine as soon as you put the transmission into gear. Did you look into getting the CVTz50 app? It would probably be a good idea to make sure the transmission isn't doing this and that Zurich scanner is not going to be able to pull codes from the TCM.

Notwithstanding, your original complaint is that the car is a cranking no-start when it's sitting overnight in the cold. I still have this feeling that the root cause may be electrical. Are you positive that your battery and alternator check out fine (i.e. you have tested them and they checked out normal)? It may even be a good idea to check those when this issue is happening (...if you have a multi-meter, have it ready for when the cranking no-start happens).

On a side note, you do have a small vacuum leak but that's not the cause of this problem. Check for tears/holes in the air intake tubing and all the vacuum lines running along the intake manifold.
On the app. I have an iphone, its not available.

I'll try to test the alternator. Put a new battery in last year. The problem with the crank no-start goes right away if I just let it sit for 1:30 in the on-position....then crank. Also all sumemr long, it starts RIGHT UP. So I don't understand how that could be electrical. Seems all fuel related...in my non mechanic mind.

I'll check for vac leaks...although I have no idea how to start. Maybe be YouTube.

I'm going to do the fuel pump and see what happens.

TY and keep you posted.
 

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On the app. I have an iphone, its not available.

I'll try to test the alternator. Put a new battery in last year. The problem with the crank no-start goes right away if I just let it sit for 1:30 in the on-position....then crank. Also all sumemr long, it starts RIGHT UP. So I don't understand how that could be electrical. Seems all fuel related...in my non mechanic mind.

I'll check for vac leaks...although I have no idea how to start. Maybe be YouTube.

I'm going to do the fuel pump and see what happens.

TY and keep you posted.
I don't think this was brought up before, but did you try pressing the accelerator a little (about 1/3) while cranking the engine to see if that helps with starting?

You can actually test for a weak fuel pump with your scan tool (if A/F sensors are working normally). Graph both A/F sensors (B1S1 and B2S1 O2 sensors) and take the car for a drive--from a stop, floor the accelerator and go up past 5,000 RPMs. Voltages should plunge down and stay pegged at/near 0 V as long as you have it at wide-open throttle. A weak fuel pump won't get near 0 V or the voltages will fluctuate but won't stay pegged. However, I suppose it could be possible that low temperatures are affecting the fuel pump during priming or right at start-up--still, when the car starts why would it go into limp mode? And, you didn't note any performance problems that might point to an issue with the fuel pump (e.g. lack of power etc).

Anyway, let us know if the problem does or does not go away with the new pump. It certainly would be an interesting reason for why your car is behaving the way it is.

On the vacuum leak--the most common cause is the air intake tubing that runs from the airbox to the throttle body. Remove it and inspect it carefully for any tears/holes. If that looks o.k. then inspect all the rubber hoses plugged into the front and back of the intake manifold. If you still don't find anything then you may need to use something like starter fluid or propane (search YouTube for "How to find a vacuum leak" and there are plenty of videos that show you what to do).
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I don't think this was brought up before, but did you try pressing the accelerator a little (about 1/3) while cranking the engine to see if that helps with starting?

You can actually test for a weak fuel pump with your scan tool (if A/F sensors are working normally). Graph both A/F sensors (B1S1 and B2S1 O2 sensors) and take the car for a drive--from a stop, floor the accelerator and go up past 5,000 RPMs. Voltages should plunge down and stay pegged at/near 0 V as long as you have it at wide-open throttle. A weak fuel pump won't get near 0 V or the voltages will fluctuate but won't stay pegged. However, I suppose it could be possible that low temperatures are affecting the fuel pump during priming or right at start-up--still, when the car starts why would it go into limp mode? And, you didn't note any performance problems that might point to an issue with the fuel pump (e.g. lack of power etc).

Anyway, let us know if the problem does or does not go away with the new pump. It certainly would be an interesting reason for why your car is behaving the way it is.

On the vacuum leak--the most common cause is the air intake tubing that runs from the airbox to the throttle body. Remove it and inspect it carefully for any tears/holes. If that looks o.k. then inspect all the rubber hoses plugged into the front and back of the intake manifold. If you still don't find anything then you may need to use something like starter fluid or propane (search YouTube for "How to find a vacuum leak" and there are plenty of videos that show you what to do).
Awesome advice. I'll try it.

I will say that I don't believe the car is as "peppy" as it probably should be. The acceleration seems to be a little sluggish maybe. It goes and gets up to speed, but it def doesn't snap off lines. I always thought it was the way the transmission was but...It's not that its too slow, just a little sluggish, like when I floor it, I think it should be getting up to speed quicker....don't know. But no stutters or anything like that.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Awesome advice. I'll try it.

I will say that I don't believe the car is as "peppy" as it probably should be. The acceleration seems to be a little sluggish maybe. It goes and gets up to speed, but it def doesn't snap off lines. I always thought it was the way the transmission was but...It's not that its too slow, just a little sluggish, like when I floor it, I think it should be getting up to speed quicker....don't know. But no stutters or anything like that.
Take that back, I just drove it...its not sluggish...it's just an old Murano. :). It's not hesitating at all...it just aint spinnin tires...
 

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Discussion Starter #40
OK..were getting something now...it threw code on a ride tonight. I'm getting a P0113 Air Intake Sensor thing. I'm not driving this much with working from home now so I guess its good that maybe I can fix this now. Here's whats going on: VIDEO OF CODE
 
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