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Discussion Starter #1
I have 27k miles on the odometer and recently (probably last 3k miles) noticed brake judder. It is not that bad but when applying brakes slightly at highway speeds it is quite pronounced. The brakes did not loose any effectiveness. Just the judder is there.

I know that Nissan has released a TSB for this problem. I am planning on taking MO to the dealer next week. My question is: has anyone out there has this doe? How long it takes? Was this covered by warranty? (I have Nissan Gold I believe coverage, 100k/5 years bumper to bumper).

I have read on FX forum somebody talking to a dealer who mentioned that FX requires brake service every 25K miles! Ridiculous.
 

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I just had it done a month ago at 37k miles. TSB04068. I found it helpful to be confident when calling.. something along the lines of, "I need to have TSB04068 done". I described how, even though I was over 36k miles, I had experienced the problem since the test drive. He called NNA, said I was a good customer of his, and they agreed to cover it. The TSB recommended resurfacing the rotors, "turning" the rotor (whatever that means), and replacing the brake pads.

They said that they checked my pads and said that I wasn't even halfway through. So since they bent over backwards to do it for free, they felt that the pads didn't warrant replacing. They even had to order special hardware to be able to execute the TSB! Needing to special order the equipment caused a delay of about four days before they could do the work, during which time I had the car. When I originally got the car back, I found that they didn't attach a brake shelf (or something) properly, and a piece of metal was scraping my rotors.. and LOUDLY. Imagine scraping fingernails down a 50 mile long chalkboard. Took it back the next day and they properly secured it. The brakes feel firmer now, but there is absolutely zero judder. Smooth as glass for the first time since buying it.

I highly recommend getting it done before 36k and I'm not the only one who got it covered for free.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the info. I will prit the TSB and visit the dealer probably on Monday.
 

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EasternPA - "turning" the rotor is how it's resurfaced...the rotor is turned in a resurfacing machine where a cutting blade removes the surface layer of metal on the contact area of the rotor leaving a smooth, flat contact area for the brake pads.
 

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Suddenly, I'm getting this awful squeel while braking.
Could this be related to the TSB?
Anyone else squeeling?
 

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My brakes squeal as well. I had it in for service. They turned the rear rotors and said they were glazed and that this is a common problem. I no sooner pulled off their lot and the first stop they squealed. It isn't terribly loud, just kinda like metal on metal. I called them today, they said they now want to replace the rear rotors the next time I come in. It seems like replacing the pads would be more effective, but hey it's their dime. I just get annoyed at having to take it back. (They do give me a loaner though)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Dropped the MO off this morning. After a test the tech admitted the rotors need to be turned. The work will be done under warranty. When asked the dealer said it is first MO with such a problem. Hm, then why Nissan issued TSB? He did not have answer for that. Anyway, he was nice and help helpful. Let’s hope they do a good job.

EasternPA, thanks for the info. It certainly helped.
 

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senza said:
EasternPA - "turning" the rotor is how it's resurfaced...the rotor is turned in a resurfacing machine where a cutting blade removes the surface layer of metal on the contact area of the rotor leaving a smooth, flat contact area for the brake pads.
I seem to recall that in the Muranos case, the turning (cutting) of the rotors is actually done while the rotors are still on the car. I believe it was part of the TSB, so I'd make certain that the dealer has the proper equipment to do the job as specified in the TSB, on the car.

Eastern PA, is this the hardwear that your dealer had to order?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
dklanecky1

yes, the TSB specifies that the turning be done while the discs are on th ecar. I did not check with the dealer how would they do it. Anyway, they already called me that car is ready. Will pick it up tonight.
 

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turning them on the car?
How odd.
That would be an admission of a badly faced hub considering the wheel is clamping the rotor to the hub. Hubs are much more expensive than rotors.....so I guess that would be the cheapest way out of that.
But, facing a hub is almost elementary, I wonder if the hub is being torqued out of true with air wrenches?
One of the first things I do when I get new tires or have the wheels screwed with in any way is to retorque them with MY torque wrench in the usual star pattern, has cured many shakes over the years.
:cool:
 

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dklanecky1 said:


I seem to recall that in the Muranos case, the turning (cutting) of the rotors is actually done while the rotors are still on the car. I believe it was part of the TSB, so I'd make certain that the dealer has the proper equipment to do the job as specified in the TSB, on the car.

Eastern PA, is this the hardwear that your dealer had to order?
Since they said they needed to order equipment in order to execute the TSB, I'm sure this was it. I believe the TSB also mentions installing some kind of "shelf" somewhere in the brake assembly. That's what they didn't properly secure and was scraping my rotors for a day or so afterwards.

Kris, I'm glad they took care of it for you. As strange as it sounds, I think having confidence while speaking to them goes a long way. Particularly when you're dealing with a widespread problem that's been covered under warranty about 50% of the time. Glad it worked out.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
mgthe3 said:
One of the first things I do when I get new tires or have the wheels screwed with in any way is to retorque them with MY torque wrench in the usual star pattern, has cured many shakes over the years.
:cool:
Just ordered my own torque wrench last Saturday. I am affraid that Dealers deform discs using airwrenches. Hence the TW.
 

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mgthe3 said:
turning them on the car?
How odd.
That would be an admission of a badly faced hub considering the wheel is clamping the rotor to the hub. Hubs are much more expensive than rotors.....so I guess that would be the cheapest way out of that.
But, facing a hub is almost elementary, I wonder if the hub is being torqued out of true with air wrenches?
One of the first things I do when I get new tires or have the wheels screwed with in any way is to retorque them with MY torque wrench in the usual star pattern, has cured many shakes over the years.
:cool:
On many of the FWD cars the rotors are behind the hub which is then pressed on and not removable unless the whole knockle assembly is taken out which is very labor intensive. Process of turning the rotors while still on the car both saves labor costs as well as trues up the rotors under simulated driving conditions.
 

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That is correct, at least with most modern FWD cars.
Now if I could just find a shop that would balance wheels on the car like the (real) old days.............;)

As to the air impact wrenches, I am softening my stance.
For years, dating back to the first alloy wheels, I have required techs to use a manual torque wrench. No air wrench on my vehicles for 30 years now.
And I think we have reason to suspect that the Murano in particular seems to be susceptible to warped rotors due to over tightening of lug nuts.

However, I allowed my Murano to have it's wheels rotated last month and allowed the tech to use an air wrench.
The reason?

They now have "Torque Sticks".
These are colored extensions that go on the wrench and limit the amount of torque that can be applied. The Torque Stick will twist at the appropriate torque and not allow any more torque to be applied.
The different colors equal different amounts of torque (IE 80-100-120 pounds/inch) and they have the various cars listed with the correct color stick. Ingenious.
Of course your tech has to
a- buy them and
b- use them and
c- pick the right color for your car/wheel

I have mine done by an independent shop run by Mickey Franklin, an old time racer here in the ft myers area.

Homer:1:
 

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Behind the hub?


These look like they are between the wheel and hub to me, and they are Murano rotors.
When I helped my buddy change out his Max rotors, they were behind the wheel, on top of the hub.
Anyone have an exploded diagram of the hub assy?
I would be interested to see how a rotor is pressed into a hub.

The torque sticks do sound kewel, but like you say findin a Nissan guy to use them could be challenging. The last slob that got hold of my wheels zizzed 3 out of 5 holes all the way around with his socket, one clean to the aluminum.
 

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ahhhhhh

I went and read the TSB for "judder".
It stipulates "do not use air impact wrench to tighted lug nuts, it can cause warpage of the rotor".
The reason they want to turn the rotor on the car is because they say it simulates the runout of the rotor on the car better, i.e. how much runout the hub has in it's relation to the suspension mounted caliper.
Also, when they get finished, they must remove the rotor to clean the ABS sensor.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
A screen shot from service manual. Hope it will help you.

PS. Just drove home. the brakes seems as smooth as baby a.......:D
 

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Discussion Starter #18
[
Of course your tech has to
a- buy them and
b- use them and
c- pick the right color for your car/wheel
Homer:1: [/B]
Homer, this is 3 time yes.......what is the probability of all three of them to be "yes"? I guess less than 33%............not good enough for me. I require 6 sigma.;)
 

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Thank you Kris, am I am glad you have a smooth baby butt brakes again.
:D
The rotor is indeed pressed between the hub and wheel like I said.
According to the TSB the mech must be very careful to index the rotor to the hub before removing the rotor to clean the ABS sensor---the reason being is that the hub has been warped, possibly due to air impact wrenches or running through cold puddles with the brakes hot. THAT is the reason for turning on the car: they are effectively trueing hub warp via the rotor.
I wonder what happens when you replace the rotors?
I have found them for $65 on many sites. But if the hub is warped?
oh dear....
Glad I have a gold warranty for the duration of my lease.
:)
 

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Shame you guys are not in Phoenix Az. We have Wheel Specialists Inc. Here, !, no air wrenches except for removal, All torque by hand followed up (if you want next day with a recheck) PLUS besides using the Great Hunter road force machine they offer "finish balancing on the vehicle afterwords, all for $15 to $20 per wheel. They only use stick on weights for alloy wheels and clean the rims and coat the tires afterwords. Did I mention the air pressure is checked on each tire. Rotation included if you want. and they only work with reservations so no waiting. GRIP :D
 
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