Homer, your post in the Car Wash thread is a great topic of it's own and I have lots of questions...sorry for the twnety questions but your a guru
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Ok first, Orange Peel. I have noticed that a lot of cars show tremendous signs of Orange Peel. When I was at the dealership getting my hitch installed, I noticed two black Mercedes and a black Z. The orange peel was bad on all but the Mercs actually looked worse. Nissan has taken a beating on this topic on all their vehicles, but it's not just Nissan from what I have seen. I've been told that they are sprayed by robotic machines. So it seems to me that it should be easier to maintain temperature, viscosity, mixtures etc using computer controlled machines. So why is Orange peel such a problem nowadays? Is it in the primer, base coat or clear coat or a combination thereof?
Are the new acrylic finishes baked on with heat lamps after the spray? I've heard the enamels were, seen pictures of heat lamp stalls.
Also, black is a color that eccentuates fine details very clearly. Is there a different process or care taken on black finishes? I've heard there is but it may be just urban legend.
I've always heard that Silver and Red were two colors to stay away from because of the chalking problem you mentioned. I've heard others call it oxidizing. Is it the UV protection in the clear coat or because it is acrylic based or both that prevents this from happening nowadays? And is the problem eliminated or just drastically reduced?
Why did the industry move to acrylic based finish? There are pros and cons as you pointed out, so why did the industry go to it? Was it environmental, cost, health?
Polishes. I have noticed that a lot of waxes have polish in them and sometime it's not clear if it has abrasives or not. It's been said time and again that the secret to a good wax finish is polish. And for all but scrathes, you really shouldn't need any abrasives. And with that said, there are different grades of polish/abrasive from very course to very fine. So the question is, if a polish doesn't have abrasive in it, how does it ... polish?
Ok first, Orange Peel. I have noticed that a lot of cars show tremendous signs of Orange Peel. When I was at the dealership getting my hitch installed, I noticed two black Mercedes and a black Z. The orange peel was bad on all but the Mercs actually looked worse. Nissan has taken a beating on this topic on all their vehicles, but it's not just Nissan from what I have seen. I've been told that they are sprayed by robotic machines. So it seems to me that it should be easier to maintain temperature, viscosity, mixtures etc using computer controlled machines. So why is Orange peel such a problem nowadays? Is it in the primer, base coat or clear coat or a combination thereof?
Are the new acrylic finishes baked on with heat lamps after the spray? I've heard the enamels were, seen pictures of heat lamp stalls.
Also, black is a color that eccentuates fine details very clearly. Is there a different process or care taken on black finishes? I've heard there is but it may be just urban legend.
I've always heard that Silver and Red were two colors to stay away from because of the chalking problem you mentioned. I've heard others call it oxidizing. Is it the UV protection in the clear coat or because it is acrylic based or both that prevents this from happening nowadays? And is the problem eliminated or just drastically reduced?
Why did the industry move to acrylic based finish? There are pros and cons as you pointed out, so why did the industry go to it? Was it environmental, cost, health?
Polishes. I have noticed that a lot of waxes have polish in them and sometime it's not clear if it has abrasives or not. It's been said time and again that the secret to a good wax finish is polish. And for all but scrathes, you really shouldn't need any abrasives. And with that said, there are different grades of polish/abrasive from very course to very fine. So the question is, if a polish doesn't have abrasive in it, how does it ... polish?
hfelknor said:<snip>
BTW.
Although I have no problem with people referring to the exterior color of our cars as "Paint", and frequently do it myself (Old habits die hard), technically what we have are "coatings".
"Paint" hasn't been used on most cars for several years now.
"Paint" is made from naturally occurring stuff found in nature.
Look it up.
The stuff on your car is a "Coating" or a "finish".
It is a synthetic with Acrylic (Plastic) as the base.
Go look at the big guy's sites, like PPG.
They call it automobile coatings nowadays, and have for some years now.
That is one reason why the Acrylic polishes, Zaino, Klasse, etc work so well. The acrylic in the polish is made to bond with the acrylic in your coating. (A clear coat is just the came as a color coat, without the color and maybe some UV blocker added.
Wax, on the other hand, which used to fill the pores of paint, just lays on top of coatings. It can still look good, but it is not bonded to the finish, like an acrylic polish. It will wear off much faster than an acrylic polish.
Some people like wax however. I mean they really like the looks.
Carnauba wax, even the "clear" type, is not optically clear. So Carnauba wax imparts a "wax glow" to a car. Sort of a warm glow.
Many, many people like that effect.
More power to them.
Acrylic coatings are much harder than paint.
Paint was easy to put swirls in, because it is "soft".
But it didn't chip as much, because it was a bit like rubber. It actually "gave" a bit when struck. Now enamals were mucgh softer than laquers, but you get the idea. Most cars, except show cars, were painted with Enamel.
Acrylics are very hard. But they shatter more easily when struck.
That's how you get a rock chip.
Acrylics , because they are synthetic, are also more easily integrated wiith additives. Like UV blocker.
It was only a few years ago, that the Sun would bake Silver and Red cars, and their paint would fade and "chalk up".
Especially on the large flat areas like the Hood, roof and trunk.
Today you hardly ever see a late 90s car, up to the present, with Sun problems.
And Zaino even includes a UV component in their "polish".
Now, Polishes have changed also.
At least ones like Zaino and Klasse.
They call them "Polishes" because they are not waxes.
But they don't have anything abrasive in them like old time "Polishes" did.
So when you go to buy a "polish", read the label carefully, because there are abrasive polishes and there are non-abrasive polishes out there.
I've been all through this before with my show cars and my street rods. It is facinating stuff. But it goes way beyond what the average guy cares about.
Homer