[midnitexpress]

Keep seeing these "JDM Ground Wire" sets listed on ebay. Anyone have any thoughts on them?



Their description on the auction site is as follows:

--Safe and reliable system that provides a low resistance ground path.
--Gives better ground will gets more Horsepower, Torque, better mileage, better response, better Starting Ability and stablize all electronic component in your car.
--Best of all, it prevents power loss and ensure top performance of your ignition and other components

The above is a direct quote so I should probably guess that from the grammar it may be just a come on. They are a 'buy-it-now" auction at $22.50.

 

[CVeeT]

Have you tried snake oil, it doubles the gas milage, reduces brake pad wear to almost mothing and best of all, the exhast is nitrous oxide, makes everyone around the car euphoric. :2:

 

[mgthe3]

I have seen this as well. I was wondering about it myself. I thought of the threads concerning intermittant start and engine cut out failures that are obviously electrical and also some threads concerning gas mileage being bad.....

Hmmmm.....I guess we will have to see some documented evidence that this grounding fixed some things won't we.

 

[midnitexpress]

Where can I buy some of that 'thar Snake Oil?? Sounds like good stuff!!

I figured it was nothing since the price was so low and the colors were so pretty....but you just never know.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Tyler_Canada]

It might help things if you have a grounding problem, but it won't do a thing for a "working" stock system.

 

[SugarRushMurano]

i just bought a salvage MO halogen headlight mo for $45 from ebay

the purpose is for HID retrofit...

Ebay rules (sometimes)

 

[jaak]

Keep seeing these "JDM Ground Wire" sets listed on ebay. Anyone have any thoughts on them?



Their description on the auction site is as follows:

--Safe and reliable system that provides a low resistance ground path.
--Gives better ground will gets more Horsepower, Torque, better mileage, better response, better Starting Ability and stablize all electronic component in your car.
--Best of all, it prevents power loss and ensure top performance of your ignition and other components

The above is a direct quote so I should probably guess that from the grammar it may be just a come on. They are a 'buy-it-now" auction at $22.50.

I almost hurt myself, I was laughing so hard I fell out of my chair!

This is funny... Take a grounding concept that's basically true and twist it into a product that's totally useless and make lot's of money.

Now why didn't I think of that. Oh, yeah, I like you guys and don't want to rip you off.... That's it!

Uh, spend your money on something useful...

 

[Dookie]

These grounding systems help provide a hotter spark, or more voltage to the spark plug. This helps compact cars in some cases tremendously. I had a ground system in my RSX and I could tell a good bit of difference.

 

[jaak]

Yeah, OK...

 

[Dookie]

Yeah, OK...

What a [email protected]

You seem to know sooooo much....

I was against any kind of mod that didn't seem to have any gains.....

Headers on the K-series motor gave the car 1-2 HP, but cost $600--terrible HP to price ratio. I never dynoed my car with the grounding system on it (not the one from EBay either), but I'll be willing to bet it had some significant torque gains across the RPM range.

 

[jaak]

Thank you, that's very pleasant.

I'm sorry to tell you, but they don't do what you think they do. Now if you had a plastic engine, or ceramic, it would make a difference, but you don't.

Now, who could we ask, perhaps a 25 year professional in the electronics industry who sells instrumentation to bleeding edge electronics companies that are designing products most people are not even aware of yet. Or maybe someone who works with physics professors that work with high voltage and plasma research.

Hmmm... Hey that's me!

I'm not knocking you, or calling you names, I'm just telling you that it does not make any significant performance difference. After all, if it truly did make these kinds of performance gains, it's so inexpensive, it would be installed by automotive manufacturers instead of all the other engineering done.

So if it makes you feel better to get one, do it, but there's better places to spend that money, such as on fuel or a good movie.

So I am hopeful that you will actually one day do enough research yourself to understand why this the case. But it would be much easier to fall into the trap of believing the performance claims and call other people names.

So maybe you're right, and I am what you claim, because ultimately I don't really care what you choose to believe. I just don't like to see people waste their money and get ripped off.


Kinda cool. First time someone's called me that on a Murano Forum.

 

[Dookie]

Yeah, OK...

Smart ass comment = smart ass response. Enough said.

I chimed in on this thread to give my PERSONAL experience with it, not yours. Maybe some cars can benefit from it, and some can't. I do know that torque steer on my car was more evident after installing the grounding system.

 

[jaak]

Fair enough, I can understand that... It wasn't personal, I just know enough to know that at 60.000 volts, it won't make a difference. I wonder if something else got corrected when you did the install.

 

[GMTURBO43]

Too each his own.

I could see where it could provide a better ground - but the claims are bogus. If you're having electrical issues - might help.

A better ground for the battery will not help performance - unless there was an electrical problem.

Dookie's referring to plug wires that have a ground strap on every wire. Supposedly to help cancel electrical noise - possibly give a hotter spark. It could just be they were better wires than stock. Take off the ground strap with the same wires - is there a change in performance?

I agree with Jaak - who I don't find to be a dick - even if he is Canadian You could accomplish the same thing - if you wanted - much cheaper buy going to AutoZone and buying a battery cable. Tie one end from the negative side of the battery and the other to the chassis.

 

[GMTURBO43]

Maybe he wasn't referring to the plug wires like I thought?

Dunno.

 

[Dookie]

Maybe he wasn't referring to the plug wires like I thought?

Dunno.

I was just upset with the way he came off and dismissed my input on the experience I had with a grounding system. When he said, "Yeah...OK..."

Jaak isn't an all around d**k. Just that comment made me a little upset, and now that I'm calmed down about it, the solution to problems aren't by creating more and more of them by egging things on like I did. For that, Jaak, I apologize....

I'm the most anti-rice person you would ever find that owned a Honda because I absolutley hate people that put stickers on their car, that they don't have. People with "I-VTEC" stickers on a normal VTEC motor and such--truely pisses me off. When I owned my Acura, I always researched and bought the part that did the best job. Intakes were a big thing because of the transverse mount motor, the intake runner started right behind the radiator and curved to the rear of the engine compartment. Because of this, heat would build up by the filter for the aftermarket intake and would net almost zero gains. (For every 10 degree jump= 1 HP loss.) Little things like this that a lot of people don't put thought into...sometimes I'm automatically identified as a "ricer" just because I own a car that has the reputation, and not the driver like it should be...

 

[jaak]

Hey Dookie, I apologise too... It was a flippant remark that is not characteristic of my responses.

So it's cool, don't sweat it...

:headslap:

In concept, the idea makes sense. In reality, the dynamics of what's going on, mean that the performance change would be negligable, if at all.

The best thing that can be done for ignition is to put a coil for each plug, right next to the plug.

Either that, or one of these little smily guys in each plug hole.
:9:

 

[Kris]

having had 25 years of experience with various grounding systems (DC, 50 and 60 Hz, HF and so on) I agree with jaak.

Sellers like this one pray on people's ignorance.

If you so care about your car just make sure that ALL tha electrical connection actually do what they suppose to do - CONNECT!

 

[CVeeT]

Well, having dismissed these as equivalent to snake oil in my earlier post, I had a second thought.

The Grounding wire is one common important link in the auto electrioc circuit, much more than common circuits, as this also acts as the main -negative connection. This wire can easily carry really high draw, to the order of 100 AMPS on starting.

You can ask auto experts, a lot of electic problems can be traced to bad ground. So a good sized ground cable with corroison proof connectors can be of great value.

But how effectivce these will be in a brand new car is really questionable, may be after 10 years these could be of some value, if ground has some significant voltage drop.

Also I have heard that cables develop high resistance with age, but I can't understand why, it got to be a high level molecular physics phenomenon.

 

[jaak]

Well, this is one of those instances where a little bit of knowledge can make you think the product is great!

Good grounding practices make you tie grounds to a common point, in certain circumstances. Also the shorter the ground path, the better. But....

This also depends on the current, voltage and frequency of the energy in question.

When you're at 40-60K volts, and low current, such as in ignition systems, resistive losses, unless grossly severe, will not have a significant impact on the performance. So using the metal of the engine as the ground path is very acceptable.

Since this is also an impulse type of waveform, inductance of the "signal" path can also affect the rise time of the discharge, however, I'm not sure that this significantly affects the spark discharge at the plug and the resulting fuel burn. (Impulse signals contain a broad range of frequency components and the faster and higer the voltage and risetime, the higher in frequency the energy is.)

However, it does affect the radiated energy and resulting interference to radio recievers, which is why resistive ignition leads are used to dampen this.

For high RPM engines, a single ignition coil for each plug, allows a longer charge and recovery time for the ignition coil, and this can make a difference. Also, mounting it close to the plug, reduces energy losses as the path length, inductance and resistance is reduced.

I'm no automotive expert, but that's my understanding based on my electronics and physics knowledge.



Over time, the leads can degrade. If I recall correctly (and someone please correct me on this, if it's wrong...) many ignition leads are carbon based instead of copper wire, to keep the noise down. If this develops many cracks and gaps over time, the resistance will become significant and degrade performance. So you'd want to change them.

Someone mentioned sheilded wires, where the ground was carried on the outside. Where I see an advantage here, is in noise suppression, not so much the return path. If the core of the wire is copper, then it's going to be a lower resistance and better ignition energy path. But as mentioned before, it's going to be noisy in the RF (Radio Frequency) area and cause interference to radio receivers. Sheilding with a grounded sheath, could reduce this radiation.

The downside to this, is the insulator between the two has to withstand the high voltages over a number of years through humidity and temperature extremes without breaking down electrically. So the wires would fail faster and cost a lot more. Again, I don't think the performance difference would be significant. Especially with a computer that can dynamically adjust ignition timing to maximise performance.

It would be really interesting to hear what an Automotive design professional with expertise in this area would have to say...