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If you believe that hot oil drains off the upper engine area more completely, why don't you also believe in draining the engine pan when it it hot? That's where the dirtiest slugiest oil is... Except in your case where you drive a lot of miles, and change the oil with quality synthetic frequently at lower mileage intervals between changes.
 
Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the benefit of draining the oil after the engine/oil is hot. To get more of the sediment in the oil that has settled to the bottom since the last oil change. When I drive into the garage and turn off the engine, everything's already hot and the oil has the remainder of the night to leak back into the oil pan (be it over the next 10 minutes or 10 hours). Why would you do the following if you've already had the car setting and the oil is drained down. If I start the engine and drive around to get the engine/oil hot, then return home and wait five minutes to drain the oil, then wait a little longer in order for "residue oil" that's coating other parts to slowly make its way to the pan after however many minutes, I don't see the benefit. Of course not, doing that. The way it works is oil flows easier and faster when hot. The engine drain-down time when hot is the same, but by draining the pan when hot, you'll remove more bottom sediment due to the faster flowing oil. Seems like I'm just spending time twiddling my thumbs waiting for things to drip down.
Yes, the way you're doing it, you get all the oil out, but are missing the benefit also helping to remove bottom sediment, which if left, starts to harden and buildup. The detergent level of the oil that you use will determine that. Sediment starts to form once the oil has reached its saturation level, determined by quite a few factors. Think blow-by gases, how hot the oil was run, age, miles, type of oil filter, etc.

I just know that you get more of a cleaning action when the oil is hot and flowing fast as opposed to cold and slow. And waiting any more then 15 minutes to get more oil out is just spending time twiddling your thumbs.

Having worked on cars for many years, as soon as I had to remove a valve cover or oil pan, I was pretty much able to tell if oil changes were done on time and properly by the amount of sediment on the heads and at the bottom of the oil pan.

Have a good day.
 
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I think we are talking about what's in the pan...
So, you're saying it's better to start the engine and have oil circulate around the system just to get it hotter so it drains from the pan faster (but that has now recoated parts topside that will take a long time to have oil drain down from - even if faster because it's hot) as opposed to having a hot engine drain down its oil overnight where the cold oil in the pan is then purged?

This is beginning to seem like an episode of The Twlight Zone mixed with something George Castanza would say.
 
Yes, the way you're doing it, you get all the oil out, but are missing the benefit also helping to remove bottom sediment, which if left, starts to harden and buildup. The detergent level of the oil that you use will determine that. Sediment starts to form once the oil has reached its saturation level, determined by quite a few factors. Think blow-by gases, how hot the oil was run, age, miles, type of oil filter, etc.
Okay, well I'm more on board with that description. Thanks for expounding. I think what MuranoSL2003 said makes sense, that I change my oil so frequently that sediment on the bottom isn't something I truly need to be concerned with. I think that's what he was implying.
 
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So, you're saying it's better to start the engine and have oil circulate around the system just to get it hotter so it drains from the pan faster (but that has now recoated parts topside that will take a long time to have oil drain down from - even if faster because it's hot) as opposed to having a hot engine drain down its oil overnight where the cold oil in the pan is then purged?

This is beginning to seem like an episode of The Twlight Zone mixed with something George Castanza would say.
No. I said draining the oil when hot, then allowing time for it all to drain out of the pan, is more complete when the oil is hot...
 
Which side of The Twilight Zone you're in lies in the eye of the beholder... 😁
 
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I think John Wayne might have something to say about that... :)

Wow...and I've never even seen a single John Wayne movie. Just not into westerns, which is what I believe he did back then.
 
No. I said draining the oil when hot, then allowing time for it all to drain out of the pan, is more complete when the oil is hot...
What would be interesting is seeing how much sediment is in the oil pan of my 2003 after 300,000+ miles. Being the original owner, I can confirm that I changed the oil/filter every 2500 miles and used Mobil 1 since draining the oil after the first 500 miles. I've never had to drop that pan for any reason, so everything is original and untouched. However, that the car has sat lifeless since April 2021 (but was started once in the Fall before I Winterized it) coupled with the use of oil additives towards the end might just have ruined the pure results of how much sediment the Mobil 1 left behind. I might send in the snakecam in the Spring to see how things look.
 
Wow...and I've never even seen a single John Wayne movie. Just not into westerns, which is what I believe he did back then.
Give yourself a treat and look up the movie The Quiet Man. Set in Ireland in the late 20's or early 30's, it was directed by John Ford and has often been called "John Ford's love letter to Ireland."

It's not a western, it's wonderful period piece with Maureen O'Hara, Barry Fitzgerald, Ward Bond and a great cast. it was shot in the early 50's. It's a movie no one should miss.
 
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I think a good question to ask is, do you really want to risk agitated sediment and dirty oil being recirculated through the system once they're already in the pan? Are you more likely to remove more sediment from the system by doing it hot and having possibly slighty more sediment remainiing topside and have lesser sediment remaining in the pan at the time of draining? Or, are you likely to get more sediment from the system by allowing hot oil to drain and settle into the pan overnight and then drain it without agitating and redistributing some of that sediment through the system? While this may be a minor issue, the point I'm driving at is possible damage (scoring, sludging, metal shaving deposits) to the engine's surfaces when recirculating agitated sediment using dirty oil. That is, is it worth recontaminating the engine for the sake of loosening some sediment that may be resting in the pan?

I'm assuming adequate, controlled testing has been done to weigh the pros and cons of both methods. My thinking might be that the reason less sediment is in the pan on a "hot, recirculated" drain is because some sediment has been carried topside and remained there. Has testing been done that entails dismantling the engine to see what kinds of deposits are left behind after both methods? Despite whatever testing data has provided for both methods, I'd say a third alternative might be in order. e.g. Let the hot oil and any agitated sediment drain from the engine and into the pan overnight, drain the pan, then spray a degunking agent inside the drain plug hole in an attempt to loosen and flush out as much remaining sediment as possible. Or, if concerned the degunking agent residue might be left behind and negatively affect the new oil, use new motor oil within a spraying device that has a long dispensing tube, and squirt/blast it into the oil pan to help break up, capture and carry away any impurities in the pan before refilling the system with fresh oil. Does the oil pump on this V6 have any kind of screen on the pick-up that sits in the pan? If so, degunking might be a good way to clear obstructions from that screen which will help improve flow/volume through the system.

I'm not trying to debunk/discredit what anyone's saying or trying be sarcastic. I'm just thinking of things since I've been lounging around all day. I see what the guys are saying about sediment, but I'm not sure I agree with possibly recirculating some of that already-settled sediment through the system via the dirty oil that I'm trying to get rid of. It almost seems counter-productive. Is it better to have dirty oil recirculate agitated sediment in order to heat and soften that sediment for supposedly better sediment expulsion? Or, is it better to leave the sediment settled, drain what you can, then let fresh oil with better lubricatiing properties distribute any agitated sediment through the system, perhaps causing less harm to the engine than doing so with dirty oil? I would think new oil would be better at grabbing and carrying away contaminants back to the oil filter than old broken down oil that's getting ready to be drained.

When all is said and done, I don't think it really matters what method is used so long as the oil is changed at regular, reasonable intervals. It all comes down to personal preference and what process you feel better using.
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
Cryogenix1

If you have to change your oil that much, make your life easier and cleaner by installing a:

Amazon.com: Fumoto Original F103N with LC-10 Lever Clip FN-Series Engine Oil Drain Valve, 1 Pack : Automotive
View attachment 54677

When installed, the nipple is slightly above the bottom of the oil pan and is still protected by the shield. After installing, measure back from where the nipple ends about 4 - 6" on the shield and drill a 3/4" hole for the hose to pass thru.

No more pulling those plastic pins that tend to break or somehow get lost in the few minutes that they are out. No more pulling the shield out of the way, but best and not least is not having to deal with the oil gushing out as you're removing the drain plug.

Another advantage is you can drain the oil while the engine is still at temp without burning yourself although you do need to avoid the exhaust pipe while installing the drain hose. I use a long welder's glove to install the drain hose to avoid burning myself.

I'd read that they don't fully drain all the oil, like when removing the drain plug itself. The second time I did an oil change, after oil stopped draining out the hose, I removed the Fumoto valve. A little over a 1/4 cup of oil came out, not enough for me to worry about. I change my oil every 7,500 miles.

Have a good day.
Thanks for the suggestion. I get mine done at the Dealer. But if I change that practice, I'll definately check this out.
 
I've always thought there was virtue to getting as strong a drain out of the oil pan plug as possible, so I've stayed with the standard plug. I can't see any advantage to using the pumps to get oil out, as the issue of sediment or foreign materials staying in the bottom of the pan is not attractive to me.
 
There was another thread on changing oil when hot vs. cold and people apparently have very strong opinions on this. I'd say that either way, if you change the oil and filter regularly you should be just fine.
 
There was another thread on changing oil when hot vs. cold and people apparently have very strong opinions on this. I'd say that either way, if you change the oil and filter regularly you should be just fine.
It amazes me how many strong opinions and general myths there are around this, when all you're doing is changing oil and replacing a filter. Do that at regular intervals and use quality parts and you are well taken care of.
 
I've always thought there was virtue to getting as strong a drain out of the oil pan plug as possible, so I've stayed with the standard plug. I can't see any advantage to using the pumps to get oil out, as the issue of sediment or foreign materials staying in the bottom of the pan is not attractive to me.
That was my only reservation after PaulDay posted something about once he drained the pan using that valve, he removed the valve and extracted an additional 1/4-cup of oil. Looks like the nipple goes in a little further than it should to prevent a more thorough drain. In all instances of whatever method is used, I'm not bothered by a little old oil being left in the system, since a greater abundance of new oil combined with regular oil and filter changes should dilute the old oil to make it a non-issue.

I think the stock drain bolt is durable and exceedinlgy less likely to be impacted and broken off compared to a more lengthy, protruding drain valve. Yes, the thin plastic shield will provide a bit of protection, but if you're accidentally forced to drive over a concrete parking bumper or a granite sidewalk curbing that sometimes has a varied height, or even if going off the side of the road into a rut and the car bounces and lands on a small boulder or chunk of hard snow/ice, I feel that plastic shield won't do much of anything to prevent that valve from snapping off and draining all the oil. I still like the idea, but I'd rather have a metal skid guard/plate beneath that area to provide some real protection, just in case "life" happens. However, I suspect that valve has some kind of internal safety measure that might help slow the loss of oil in the event it's struck and breaks off just outside the pan's threaded hole.
 
That was my only reservation after PaulDay posted something about once he drained the pan using that valve, he removed the valve and extracted an additional 1/4-cup of oil. Looks like the nipple goes in a little further than it should to prevent a more thorough drain. In all instances of whatever method is used, I'm not bothered by a little old oil being left in the system, since a greater abundance of new oil combined with regular oil and filter changes should dilute the old oil to make it a non-issue.

I think the stock drain bolt is durable and exceedinlgy less likely to be impacted and broken off compared to a more lengthy, protruding drain valve. Yes, the thin plastic shield will provide a bit of protection, but if you're accidentally forced to drive over a concrete parking bumper or a granite sidewalk curbing that sometimes has a varied height, or even if going off the side of the road into a rut and the car bounces and lands on a small boulder or chunk of hard snow/ice, I feel that plastic shield won't do much of anything to prevent that valve from snapping off and draining all the oil. I still like the idea, but I'd rather have a metal skid guard/plate beneath that area to provide some real protection, just in case "life" happens. However, I suspect that valve has some kind of internal safety measure that might help slow the loss of oil in the event it's struck and breaks off just outside the pan's threaded hole.
I agree. It just COULD be that with all the slush and dirt I recently didn't see a two-curb lane divider in the center of a Denver street and performed a left turn from a side street in my Jeep Grand Cherokee, hopping the entire vehicle over both curbs. I had the Jeep checked and everything was fine (hey, it's a Jeep!) but that's exactly the kind of mistake in which I'd worry about breaking off anything protruding underneath the oil pan. There's also the occasional wad of road debris that you have to straddle and hope it doesn't hit anything.
 
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...but that's exactly the kind of mistake in which I'd worry about breaking off anything protruding underneath the oil pan. There's also the occasional wad of road debris that you have to straddle and hope it doesn't hit anything.
I think you have to determine the level of possible risk you're willing to accept by changing something which is fairly rock solid in order to have a bit more convenience in ease of servicability. Even if the likelihood of anything hitting that valve and snapping it off is low, the possibility still exists for it to happen so you at least should consider the "what ifs" in case something unexpected happens and you're left stranded on the side of the road with no oil left in your engine. Do you have the original drain pan bolt in your car so that maybe you can crawl underneath, hopefully extract what's left of the valve and replace it? Do you have a few quarts of oil in the back to at least get you going? If no OEM plug, do you keep some liquid weld that you can use to plug up the broken valve and then refill with oil to get you going?

Realistically, all it would take is a tractor-trailer truck to have a blowout in your vicinity, and have that tire sharpnel thrown under your car and strike that valve just right. Chances of it happening around you? Slim. Chances if it happened it would hit your oil pan? Slim. I wouldn't really be worried about installing such a valve, but I'd rather take some measures to reduce the risk of something happening by better protecting it from road strikes and not relying on a thin piece of plastic for that peace of mind.
 
I agree. It just COULD be that with all the slush and dirt I recently didn't see a two-curb lane divider in the center of a Denver street and performed a left turn from a side street in my Jeep Grand Cherokee, hopping the entire vehicle over both curbs. I had the Jeep checked and everything was fine (hey, it's a Jeep!) but that's exactly the kind of mistake in which I'd worry about breaking off anything protruding underneath the oil pan. There's also the occasional wad of road debris that you have to straddle and hope it doesn't hit anything.
Yeah, stuff in the road would be a concern to me due to an incident I had. I was on my way to the airport. I ended up going up the onramp behind small Honda with its muffler dragging, so I stayed back as much as possible when merging onto the highway. The Honda stayed in the right most lane of a 4 lane highway. I moved over two lanes and proceeded to accelerate past a semi truck on the left, the Honda was on the right of it just a little ahead when the muffler finally let loose and bounced under semi truck (where I couldn't see it,) then suddenly bouncing into my lane. I had no choice but to hold on tight all hope all would be well as it clanged under my '03. Luckily nothing catastrophic occurred, but it did bend the CVT air scoop upwards, and dented a few other things. Had it been on the oil pan side it most likely would have impacted anything I had mounted onto it...
 
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