Engine won't start (battery fine, even with jump start)

5416 Views 30 Replies 12 Participants Last post by I need coffee, 9 d ago

Chappers

Discussion Starter · Jan 26, 2022

I have an odd issue with my murano. For a number of months its been failing to start in the mornings and I put it down to an issue with either the battery or alternator, I have a power pack and jump started it no problem.

However, last week it wouldn't power up at all. The odd thing is I'd been driving the car for over an hour, and only turned off the engine for about 15 minutes before getting back in (i.e. battery would have had plenty of charge).

Even the recovery truck failied to get it going with a jump start and were baffled.

I've looked at the battery etc and found:-

Battery has plenty of charge (12+v)
jump starting usually allows me to get some power (enough to sometimes get the doors unlocked) but the power even from that dissipates in a few seconds
Both key fobs have new batteries, and I've swapped them over
I DID have a yellow 'key' warning indicator appear on some occasions
Sometimes, when reconnecting the battery, the car alarm goes off, but then stops after a few minutes
holding the keyfob by the start / stop doesn't do anything (I understood that possibly the RFID tag in the key is passive so would work this way)

So, I'm totally stumped. I was hoping someone would be able to offer some thoughts about what this might be?

At the moment my 2 thoughts are :-

Immobiliser faulty?
Ignition system faulty?

I can't see how it could be anything else, there is no parasitic drain on the battery and even if there was surely a jump start would cure that anyway.

Any help much appreciated!

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Cryogenix1

· #2 · Jan 26, 2022

You might consider reading my thread about starting problems with my 2003 MO. Seems the NEG cable was too rigid at both ends and may have succumbed to internal corrosion within the wire strands to produce random starting problems similar to yours. I found that just bumping the NEG wire if the car wouldn't start would sometimes be enough to get it to start. I'd check the NEG battery wire that, unless it changed in the 2nd Gen MO, should terminate to the chassis and also possibly to a CVT-mounted bracket beneath the battery tray. I solved my problem by piggybacking a new NEG cable over the existing chassis ground.

www.nissanmurano.org

Car won't start - ignition issue - battery ground wire

2003 MUrano AWD SE To start, the battery, alternator and charging system are all fine. SCENARIO... Had pulled in somewhere to eat and watch a movie, as I've done many times before. Finished up, ignition key was already at the first position, went to start MO and a few "dummy" lights came on...

www.nissanmurano.org

www.nissanmurano.org

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I need coffee

· #3 · Jan 26, 2022

The description of the symptoms that led to the current problem does sound like a possible bad battery ground cable. Also, check the fuses on the fusible link attached directly to the battery positive cable in case any are blown.

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chidog

· #4 · Jan 27, 2022

X2 with Cryogenix1
You have to take the battery tray out to deal with the ground cable. My daughters car same deal with corrosion with in the swagged cable eyes, also check where it grounds to the transmission.

Reactions: 1

Chappers

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jan 27, 2022

guys thank you so much for you responses I really appreciate it - I'm going to look into this over the next few days but I'll report back with my findings. My local dealership was as you might expect absolutely useless. The symtoms are indeed seemingly random and a badly grounded cable makes a lot of sense. Thank you again!

cksvih01

· #6 · Feb 1, 2022

The fusible link on my 2011 Murano was completely corroded and eventually caused the car not to start. Replacing it fixed the problem.

Chappers

Discussion Starter · #7 · Mar 1, 2022

Hi everyone firstly thank you for all the helpful suggestions. It has taken an umber of weeks but unfortunately even though the grounding wire was quite bad it has been fully replaced / cleaned and still no joy. Also the fusible link is fine.

Currently it is with my mechanic who is out of ideas, he has

1) power is getting to the car, the alternator etc is fine and battery is being bypassed anyway
2) key is being recognised by the car, the beeping comes on when the key is put on, but the start button does nothing
3) None of the dashboard lights , radio etc come on at all, just the beeping noise / yellow light around the key fob holder
4) Have tried both keys / replaced battery etc and done nearfield rfid tag test on the button
5) have run through the fuse box replacing everything and still no joy

So it seems the car has power but refuses to attempt to try to engage the engine. My next thoughts are :-

- steering lock / immobiliser system?

Is there anything else anyone can think of? I'm out of ideas, its incredibly frustrating because its an expensive car and at the moment it looks like the whole thing is just going for scrap because we can't isolate the issue. My local Nissan dealership is worst than useless so I've given up there. Could anyone recommend an online electrical Nissan specialist perhaps?

Thank you all for your help anyway its much appreciated!

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MuranoSL2003

· #8 · Mar 1, 2022

Chappers said:
Hi everyone firstly thank you for all the helpful suggestions. It has taken an umber of weeks but unfortunately even though the grounding wire was quite bad it has been fully replaced / cleaned and still no joy. Also the fusible link is fine.

Currently it is with my mechanic who is out of ideas, he has

1) power is getting to the car, the alternator etc is fine and battery is being bypassed anyway
2) key is being recognised by the car, the beeping comes on when the key is put on, but the start button does nothing
3) None of the dashboard lights , radio etc come on at all, just the beeping noise / yellow light around the key fob holder
4) Have tried both keys / replaced battery etc and done nearfield rfid tag test on the button
5) have run through the fuse box replacing everything and still no joy

So it seems the car has power but refuses to attempt to try to engage the engine. My next thoughts are :-

- steering lock / immobiliser system?

Is there anything else anyone can think of? I'm out of ideas, its incredibly frustrating because its an expensive car and at the moment it looks like the whole thing is just going for scrap because we can't isolate the issue. My local Nissan dealership is worst than useless so I've given up there. Could anyone recommend an online electrical Nissan specialist perhaps?

Thank you all for your help anyway its much appreciated!

Have you scanned for error codes?

I'm wondering if the ECU/ECM is damaged...

Pilgrim

· #9 · Mar 1, 2022

This is a stumper. I think your idea of looking at the immobilizer system (if there is one) makes sense. I don't know enough about the 2nd gen to be of more help.

I need coffee

· #10 · Mar 1, 2022

Chappers said:
3) None of the dashboard lights , radio etc come on at all, just the beeping noise / yellow light around the key fob holder

You don't see any of the warning lamps come on the dashboard when the start button is pressed? This still looks to be a power issue. Was an OEM ground cable used as the replacement? This is important because there's a current sensor integrated in it and the cable connects at two points (frame and transmission).

When checking the fuses, did you use a test light (or DVOM)? If only a visual inspection was performed this would miss a lack of power going through a good fuse and finding a circuit with no power when it should have power may give you a direction to go in.

Also, has your mechanic verified that he can communicate with the ECM and BCM with his scan tool?

Chappers

Discussion Starter · #11 · Mar 1, 2022

I need coffee said:
You don't see any of the warning lamps come on the dashboard when the start button is pressed? This still looks to be a power issue. Was an OEM ground cable used as the replacement? This is important because there's a current sensor integrated in it and the cable connects at two points (frame and transmission).

When checking the fuses, did you use a test light (or DVOM)? If only a visual inspection was performed this would miss a lack of power going through a good fuse and finding a circuit with no power when it should have power may give you a direction to go in.

Also, has your mechanic verified that he can communicate with the ECM and BCM with his scan tool?

thank you, so there is the 'key' warning light that comes on, thats the only warning stuff

Pilgrim said:
This is a stumper. I think your idea of looking at the immobilizer system (if there is one) makes sense. I don't know enough about the 2nd gen to be of more help.

thank you anyway!

Chappers

Discussion Starter · #12 · Mar 1, 2022

I need coffee said:
You don't see any of the warning lamps come on the dashboard when the start button is pressed? This still looks to be a power issue. Was an OEM ground cable used as the replacement? This is important because there's a current sensor integrated in it and the cable connects at two points (frame and transmission).

When checking the fuses, did you use a test light (or DVOM)? If only a visual inspection was performed this would miss a lack of power going through a good fuse and finding a circuit with no power when it should have power may give you a direction to go in.

Also, has your mechanic verified that he can communicate with the ECM and BCM with his scan tool?

I'll check with him now about the other stuff

Chappers

Discussion Starter · #13 · Mar 1, 2022

Just to confirm this is the reply from my mechanic:-

'

OEM ground cable used yes. Current sensor present and plugged in. Test light was used when checking fuses as well as visual inspection. Unable to connect scanner to vehicle to check EVM and BCM or any other system for that matter as ignition cannot be switched on. Hope this helps buddy'

I need coffee

· #14 · Mar 1, 2022 (Edited)

Chappers said:
ignition cannot be switched on

That's where I'd probably start then--make sure the push-button ignition switch has good power and ground and that the switch itself has continuity when pressed. Unfortunately, I can't find a pin-out for that switch in the service manual, but hopefully your mechanic can. There's 8 terminals, but only 2 are the main power and ground wires (the others are for the LEDs).

You indicated earlier that the key warning lamp lights up (only light on the dash). Is the red LED near the driver side windshield solid red (normal operation is flashing every 2-3 seconds)? That would indicate an issue with the immobilizer system although I don't know that this would prevent turning on the ignition switch to ACC or ON (engine wouldn't start)--I could be wrong. Presumably, you and/or your mechanic tried inserting the fob into the key slot when messing around with the ignition? This allows the BCM to recognize a registered key even if the fob battery is dead.

EDIT: I found the pin-out. Diagram is from the harness side. Terminal #1 (black wire) is the ground and Terminal #4 (brown wire) is the power feed.

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Chappers

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 2, 2022

I need coffee said:
That's where I'd probably start then--make sure the push-button ignition switch has good power and ground and that the switch itself has continuity when pressed. Unfortunately, I can't find a pin-out for that switch in the service manual, but hopefully your mechanic can. There's 8 terminals, but only 2 are the main power and ground wires (the others are for the LEDs).

You indicated earlier that the key warning lamp lights up (only light on the dash). Is the red LED near the driver side windshield solid red (normal operation is flashing every 2-3 seconds)? That would indicate an issue with the immobilizer system although I don't know that this would prevent turning on the ignition switch to ACC or ON (engine wouldn't start)--I could be wrong. Presumably, you and/or your mechanic tried inserting the fob into the key slot when messing around with the ignition? This allows the BCM to recognize a registered key even if the fob battery is dead.

EDIT: I found the pin-out. Diagram is from the harness side. Terminal #1 (black wire) is the ground and Terminal #4 (brown wire) is the power feed.

View attachment 54844

thank you so much for all of this I really aprpecaite it. I'll get back with any progress but its just such a bizarre problem I can't really see anything to do apart from scrap the car. Such an incredible waste but we'll try the next few things. Nissan dealership is useless

I'll let you know any progress again though, thank you!

Chappers

Discussion Starter · #16 · Mar 3, 2022

2

So just as an update, I've uploaded some images / video showing the issue. Does this ring any bells at all? My proposed next steps are :-

replacing the BCM unit
replacing the IPDM unit

The steering lock isn't on so this isn't the issue. And we've tried with 2 separate keys so can't be an issue with the keys. Just wondering if it could actually be the key unit itself within the car?
Once again thank you for your input

Video attached below :-

http://www.precentor.co.uk/car/video-1646333090.mp4

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I need coffee

· #17 · Mar 3, 2022

Chappers said:
So just as an update, I've uploaded some images / video showing the issue. Does this ring any bells at all? My proposed next steps are :-

replacing the BCM unit

replacing the IPDM unit

The steering lock isn't on so this isn't the issue. And we've tried with 2 separate keys so can't be an issue with the keys. Just wondering if it could actually be the key unit itself within the car?
Once again thank you for your input

Some quick questions on the pics and video you posted...The pics show the key warning light (immobilizer) on tach lit up and the push-button start also illuminated in the lock position. The video shows only the "Remove Key" warning on the information display and the key slot is flashing, but the rest of the car looks dead like there's no power, lights, anything. Are you seeing each of these things changing intermittently? For example, sometimes the push-button switch is lit up and sometimes it isn't and/or sometimes the key warning light is on and sometimes it isn't? Have you tried switching on/off any of the interior components (e.g. lights, seat warmers, power seats, anything) to see if anything works?

Chappers

Discussion Starter · #18 · Mar 3, 2022

yes thats correct - there is absolutely no power apart from the remove key alert / key slot flash. This has been consistent for the past few weeks with the mechanic trying various things (replacing the grounding / fuse box checks etc).

When the problem first started happening months ago, what would happen is that with a boost pack on, putting on the key DID start up the electrics (dashboard, lights, car alarm, radio etc), but after a few seconds the power died. Repeatedely boosting the power would (eventually) allow the car to crank and get things going.

The confusing thing therefore is that as you can see it isn't a 'one minute it worked, next minute it didn't' scenario, but yes at the moment its completely dead apart from the key alert / flash

I need coffee

· #19 · Mar 4, 2022

2

Chappers said:
yes thats correct - there is absolutely no power apart from the remove key alert / key slot flash. This has been consistent for the past few weeks with the mechanic trying various things (replacing the grounding / fuse box checks etc).

When the problem first started happening months ago, what would happen is that with a boost pack on, putting on the key DID start up the electrics (dashboard, lights, car alarm, radio etc), but after a few seconds the power died. Repeatedely boosting the power would (eventually) allow the car to crank and get things going.

The confusing thing therefore is that as you can see it isn't a 'one minute it worked, next minute it didn't' scenario, but yes at the moment its completely dead apart from the key alert / flash

And, just to confirm the push-button ignition switch power feed does not have battery voltage when tested? It is looking like an issue with the BCM, but before replacing it, I would suggest verifying that it has good power and ground. This would have to be done right at the BCM connector. See diagrams below: power feed is Terminal #1 [white wire] and ground is Terminal #13 [black wire]. Given that the key slot and buzzer works, the BCM is getting something, but I would be checking to make sure there isn't unexpected resistance (voltage drop) in those circuits.

Keep us updated on how things progress. Good luck!

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mupenyu

· #20 · 1 mo ago

Was this ever resolved. If so please share what the problem was and how you fixed it

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