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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After watching this video EVs are not for me until far less volatile batteries are introduced, like solid-state...

 

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I believe the stats still say that gasoline cars statistically burn down more often than electric cars, but they are less likely to burn down while parked in a garage. Hybrid vehicles have been around for years and it doesn't seem like they are much of a concern.

I would not buy any Tesla product because they are vaporware more than cars, with Elon "Space Karen" Musk running the company and showing his "leadership skills" at Twitter.

I did have a 2002 Ford E150 that had a hot reed switch (for cruise control) in the brake fluid in the master cylinder, and those burned down a whole bunch of Fords as well as garages and homes. I remember seeing a stat indicating over 550 fires.


That said, my laptop computer has lithium ion batteries and I keep it indoors...I'm using it right now, actually.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The problem with EV is how long and intensely a lithium-ion fire burns once started, and how difficult they are to put out. And EV battery arrays are HUGE in comparison to consumer devices, so a fire is a MUCH bigger deal...

True, lithium-ion are in many things these days.
 

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You are certainly right about the intensity of big lithium ion battery fires, and I am not rushing to buy an electric car, but may strongly consider a hybrid for our next vehicle purchase. It's not like 20 gallons of gasoline makes for a "safe" fire, though.

I would absolutely be more concerned about car fires if we had an attached garage, especially one where my bedroom was directly above the garage. People died when the bad Ford cruise switches torched cars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I take it you didn't watch the video?

Firefighters can put a conventional car fire, lithium-ion fires are extremely difficult to extinguish at times from the various reports I've heard...
 

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No question that lithium fires are fierce and a big problem for firefighters. I think you did a thread a while ago about changeable batteries like propane cans, but the quality control problems (and money to be made in putting together bad batteries) make me nervous. And I asked the question about whose liability it would be.

I'm usually not an early adopter of new tech and want to avoid electric cars till there is an experience base out there from people running the vehicles 100-200k miles. And I have doubts about the electric infrastructure too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Another big problem with these early days of EVs is there will be a lot of orphans, technology is changing rapidly. I would think it will be difficult to obtain certain parts once outside the warranty period... The way I understand it manufacturers only need to maintain parts availability during the warranty period... There may not be enough numbers of each model to support a robust aftermarket for some parts...

Cost effective long term ownership of an EV purchased today will iffy IMO.

We don't have an adequate electrical supply now (shortages currently...), and I haven't heard of any plans to add more to support a large number of EVs. I would think that would be the first step before starting down this road...

I like battery powered stuff. I changed all my outdoor power equipment to batteries 4 years ago, and would never go back to gas. It matches the power of gas powered equipment without all the maintenance and problems. It's a joy!
 

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I think these issues will get sorted out, but it will be uneven. Think of a see-saw with the progress and problem solving going up and down on every issue. It will get sorted out, but like most things in life, it won't be methodical or smooth.
 
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I find it funny when the EV lovers have to say the gas cars burn too. Yeah true, but they don't spontaneously burn up just sitting, unless it is some electrical problem.
Electricity is one of the major causes of house fires as well, yes other than just plain stupidity, like cigarettes and cooking etc etc.
You can store gasoline with no worry of it just deciding to flame up, unlike a lithium Ion battery. There is good reason that aircraft is not allowed to ship them.
If you are in the know at all you will not store Li battery's in any place they can light up other flammables, I store them outside, and have removed them from old computers, yes even a wrist watch uses an Li battery. Maybe a tiny bit more stable than a Tesla or Volt battery. Also a smart person that owns an EV will charge it at least 75 feet from his or her house, and never park it in a garage especially one attached to your house.
Unless you are a sort that likes to gamble.
The things that have made ICE or gas powered cars more susceptible to fire, is poor manufacturing quality and use of improper materials and over electrifying. Most important for gas engines is to use no rubber type hoses for gasoline, only solid steel lines, that is what was done in the old days. The rubber lines are the weak point for gas fires. Then of course the poor quality engines in vehicles like Hyundai Kia's etc. that have parts that like to poke holes in the standard cheap cast aluminum crankcase/ block then spew oil onto hot exhaust. Very rare in the old days of cars and trucks, maybe a blown seal would cause such a leak but I don't remember huge rashes of car fires like nowadays.
Just do the study, fire people say it takes close to 10,000 gallons of then polluted H2O to put out an EV fire.
 

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(large snip)
Very rare in the old days of cars and trucks, maybe a blown seal would cause such a leak but I don't remember huge rashes of car fires like nowadays.
Just do the study, fire people say it takes close to 10,000 gallons of then polluted H2O to put out an EV fire.
Can you put a number to the phrase "huge rashes of car fires..."? I'm not aware of regular or numerous car fires in EVs.

From this Autoweek article: How Much Should You Worry About EV Fires?

"Researchers from insurance deal site Auto Insurance EZ compiled sales and accident data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board. The site found that hybrid vehicles had the most fires per 100,000 sales at 3474.5. There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles."
 

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"Researchers from insurance deal site Auto Insurance EZ compiled sales and accident data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board. The site found that hybrid vehicles had the most fires per 100,000 sales at 3474.5. There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles."
It looks like when you combine the two, I guess the heat of a gas fire sets off a chain reaction with the battery pack making the fire worse.

I pretty much have ignored the hype of EV fires. Yes, they are much more difficult to put out than a liquid fire and cause a massive pollution problem when burning. One of the reasons they seem a high incident is those types of fires are being driven by news cycles and reaching national attention. A few of the large national news network are backed by oil, and they seem to up play this type of incident up just to get just the reactions I've seen here, totally based on misinformation.

At least 50 car fires a day happen, but they just don't hit that national attention, unless it has a wow factor that will increase ratings. Most of them don't even make their own local area news.

To end this, I seem to recall getting a call from my dealer about not parking my 2017.5 Murano in my attached garage until they could confirm that my car didn't have the defective ABS unit that could catch fire, even with the car was off. They needed to do a hands-on to check the serial number of the ABS unit itself to be sure. If I remember right, there was about a total of 15 fires from this issue.

Have a good day.
 
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My huge rashes is talking about comparing the old days, 1950's to say 1970's to all cars nowadays. We have lots of car fires now and no not all EV, many improperly designed gas cars.
New cars now the engines are blowing up spraying oil on hot parts etc. gasoline believe it or not won't go off on a hot exhaust as easy as oil does. I've lived that many times in the past dealing with earth moving machines and such. I had an overfilled gas tank leaking onto a hot exhaust manifold and the gas just fogged off it, and on that same manifold I had a huge hydraulic oil leak spraying on it that almost burned the machine up.
Some years back mid 90's ford trucks where catching fire, caused by electrical issues. Electrical is the main cause of fires every where. Like the above mentioned ABS unit.
 

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Speaking of Li battery's, just remembered this. Before moving from our one house over 2 years ago, the energy company that supplys gas and electric did their nice meter upgrades.
From the good old no problems analog meters to digital. Yeah the meters that caused many homes to burn down. Anyway of course both gas and electric meters have batterys in them. The electric meter is for back up when power goes off and the battery is the only electric power for the gas meter. What is more safe than having an Li battery on a gas meter?
 

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From the good old no problems analog meters to digital. Yeah the meters that caused many homes to burn down. Anyway of course both gas and electric meters have batterys in them. The electric meter is for back up when power goes off and the battery is the only electric power for the gas meter. What is more safe than having an Li battery on a gas meter?
To continue posing as a devil's advocate.....

Depends on the actual number "many homes" constitutes. I haven't heard a thing about this, so I'm wondering if there is an actual number of these unfortunate homes that can be quoted.
 

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And sorry to be off car topic a bit. Pilgrim there is a ton of info about it, canada years ago had the most. Here is one of hundreds of reports.
I think the switching system is part of the problem in them. Plus unfused power to the printed circuit boards.
 

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Interesting story, and something that needs more investigation. However, given that the story talks about small numbers of suits and does not have numbers for the frequency with which it happens, I would consider it not to be a major threat. It would be helpful to have some perspective about the number of these fires relative to the number of garage and home fires occurring from other causes.

I also note that there was no specific malfunction attributed, other than one gent's comment about "arcing, massive arcing" inside the meter. I didn't hear anything connecting this to Li-Ion batteries.
 

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Yes it is the disconnect switching contacts inside mostly causing the problems. Li battery fires are a given, it may not ever happen, but then it may. It is always a roll of the dice with Li batterys no matter what they power. Skate or hover boards where bursting into flames, a UPS aircraft burned mid air and crashed because of them, even the 787 dreamliner which was designed to use Li bat's was grounded until special battery containers could be designed. E Cig's have injured many users of that type of product due to the Li batterys. Yard machines with Li bat's have gone up in smoke.
Its a do you feel lucky today deal with them.
 
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