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Discussion Starter #1
OK, so now that the 2005 model has FINALLY come out, and I'm now back from my long vacation (New Zealand was absolutely incredible), I need to put in my order for a 2005.

Unfortunately they didn't change the options around any from 04 to 05. I still can't get the fun toys (VDC, Nav, etc) without getting the touring package. I can't get the touring package without getting leather seats. I refuse to have leather seats. <sigh>

So here's what I'm planning:

05 SL AWD
Platinum (just to be a little different than all the silver cars)
Charcoal Cloth
Sunroof Package
XM (or Sirius, haven't decided which yet but leaning towards XM)
Towing package
Crossbars
Splash guards
Floor mats
Cargo protector
Sunroof Wind Deflector

MSRP is $34,500USD (which is about $100 more than the 04 so very close)
CarsDirect Invoice is $31,421 (for the 04, they don't list the 05 yet)
CarsDirect Price is $30,571 (below invoice due to $1000 rebate through 11/30)

Unfortunately, this configuration is quite rare and hard to find (at least it was for the 04) so this means that I'll most likely have to order it from the factory this way and wait 3 months. Not a big deal for me, since I'd rather do that than change the configuration! :)

I'm heading to a dealership today that has a few 05's on the lot just to make sure nothing has changed as far as the overall feel and ride and get a feel for what my financing options are these days.

Any input, if you have it, would be appreciated. I'm not putting in an order or anything today, just testing the waters. But if you have tips on the 05s in particular it would be nice to hear. Specifically if you know of a way that I can get the factory to install VDC, Intelligent Key, or the Backup Camera without having to get leather seats... :)
 

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You better double check the $1,000 rebate. I believe it's only for the 2004's.

Also you can only get VDC with the touring package. It stinks. They should just make that standard on all Mo's.

If anyone has pics of the Platinum side by side with the other silver look-a-likes I'd like to see how they differ. Otherwise a silver-ish car is a silver-ish car... be different go for the blue or merlot. IMO those are nicer.
 

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Corin, it will be good to see a Mo in your sig.
:D
 

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Discussion Starter #4
mgthe3 said:
Corin, it will be good to see a Mo in your sig.
:D
GOD YES!!! :rolleyes:

So I just got back. I'm so pissed at the dealers. The first one I went to had about 6 2005 models listed on their site. I showed up, told them what I wanted to drive (to make sure nothing changed) and he said "fine, lets go do it." Went and got the keys, headed out to the lot, and stepped up to a 2004. Hello.

Turns out that they have NO 2005s on the lot. The internet sales manager said that they are on the way, but nobody in this area has any on the lots yet. Best bet would be to check back on Monday.

Sounded fishy to me, so I stopped by the next dealer. They had 3 left on the lot, 2 SL, 1 SE, all with the touring package. This was part of their second shipment. Apparently the "area" that the first dealership was talking about was only a 2-block radius around his dealership, whereas I meant a few miles...

Test drive went fine. Seems like they did indeed fix the steering problem that Consumer Reports found. I was always able to reproduce the malfunction in the 04 when I tried, but in the 05 I couldn't get it to, so that's a good thing.

Started talking about what I wanted. Since the configuration I want is a bit odd, I'm sure we'll have to order it from the factory, which I am fine with. But no, they had to spend over a half-hour trying to track one down. They finally did, at least one that was close enough that they could add the missing things there at the dealership. So I jumped into price.

They asked "what percentage over invoice" would I like, to which I replied $2k under invoice. She came back basically yelling at me that I was trying to steal money from her and that no way would she ever sell a car below invoice. She refused to even come back with a counter offer, so I grabbed my papers and started to walk away. She didn't stop me, but did keep talking saying I'd be wasting my time if I wanted to get under invoice. I told her that I would talk with all the other dealers in Washington and see what different places were willing to do to find out myself. This obviously upset her, but she stood her ground as did I.

So my next step is to do the "fax attack" method (although via e-mail) and see what I can get. I'm certainly not all too pleased with how this dealership is treating me (even before talking price) so if they don't want my business I'm sure someone else will. :D

Unfortunately for dealerships, I enjoy the arguing process and won't let people push me around. I'm prepared to wait the 3 months for a factory delivery, so they can't pressure me with anything that is "close" on their lot. Basically I'm a dealership's worst customer... AND PROUD OF IT!!! :2:

Anyone buying an 05, I would really appreciate some info as to prices and financing you're getting.
 

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Mr. 3 K, 3/3/5. 5K,10/5/7
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WOW ! GRIP
 

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I asked a couple days ago if anyone thought I was getting a fair deal on the 2005 I'm looking at and nobody answered. But in response to people looking at 2005s and the deals there getting, what the hey, I'll give it a shot.

I'm looking at a 2005 SL AWD with Chrome Wheels, SL Touring Package, Technology Package, Cargo Protector, Floor Mats, Roof Rack Crossbars, and Splash Guards.

MSRP is $39,040, invoice is $35,296 and the dealer is offering it to me for $519 under invoice, which is basically the dealer holdback, to make the offer $34,777 with 3% financing.

PLUS, the dealer just delivered the car to me this evening so I can test drive it over Thanksgiving and make my decision on Friday. I plan to drive the car to the BMW lot Friday morning and compare against the X3. Interestingly, the BMW dealer gave me the same "I never sell a car under invoice" speech you got.

In the 20 minutes or so driving the MO, sweet car, especially the backup camera and the intelligent key.
 

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Whoa there, I am about to buy an 05 and for all the research I have done, I do not see how you can get one for 2K under invoice. Surely you mean 2K under MSRP.

Otherwise, you are asking for a MO at zero profit plus $1500 in the glovebox considering holdback.

Please tell me what you know before I buy mine on Friday!!!
 

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Just wanna help
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Here is what i think on murano (versus the bmw x3 above)....

PLUS, the dealer just delivered the car to me this evening so I can test drive it over Thanksgiving and make my decision on Friday. I plan to drive the car to the BMW lot Friday morning and compare against the X3. Interestingly, the BMW dealer gave me the same "I never sell a car under invoice" speech you got.
I guarantee that for drive excitement and "smile" factor, the murano is better. Your nissan dealer seems pretty kind, allowing you to test drive the murano during the thanksgiving. I will consider that as plus point.

X3 interior quality is higher, when murano's rattles

BWMs are sold at MSRP most of the time, so ur bmw dealer is correct. BTY, i think murano should be compare to X5.
 

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Mr. 3 K, 3/3/5. 5K,10/5/7
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Saito your deal sounds good to me. Dealers gotta live too. We want good service, prompt attention, courtesy and technical capability. I don't want to get taken unfair advantage of but I do understand about floor planing costs, facilities, insurance, salaries, etc. Maybe I am just a dope. I can't think of many times I bought a MB or BMW at much less than MSRP. I have owned about 10 MB's all bought new. Can't remember the details right now, but I did post the list on the forum in the past. The MB dealer was good to me, even taking back a White SLK and giving me a Black one after 2 months all at absolutely no cost to me. Called it "Customer Satisfaction Adjustment" GRIP :D
 

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Discussion Starter #10
vfr said:
Whoa there, I am about to buy an 05 and for all the research I have done, I do not see how you can get one for 2K under invoice. Surely you mean 2K under MSRP.

Otherwise, you are asking for a MO at zero profit plus $1500 in the glovebox considering holdback.

Please tell me what you know before I buy mine on Friday!!!
Well, to be honest I'm not expecting to be able to get $2k under invoice. But since I know that they can go $500 or more below invoice, I've decided to start with a target at $2k below and see what they come back with. If I start at $500 under, then they'll counter with $1k over or some such number.

The main point is that they still do make a substantial profit (at least for Nissan) selling at or a little below invoice. Yeah, $2k probably breaks them, but they should at least come back with a counter offer.

The other issue is that if a rebate comes into play, that can help drive it to my target value. For example, the dealer I was talking to said that she would be able to sell me an 04 for $2k under since there are good dealer rebates on those right now, but certainly not an 05.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
saito said:
I asked a couple days ago if anyone thought I was getting a fair deal on the 2005 I'm looking at and nobody answered. But in response to people looking at 2005s and the deals there getting, what the hey, I'll give it a shot.

I'm looking at a 2005 SL AWD with Chrome Wheels, SL Touring Package, Technology Package, Cargo Protector, Floor Mats, Roof Rack Crossbars, and Splash Guards.

MSRP is $39,040, invoice is $35,296 and the dealer is offering it to me for $519 under invoice, which is basically the dealer holdback, to make the offer $34,777 with 3% financing.

PLUS, the dealer just delivered the car to me this evening so I can test drive it over Thanksgiving and make my decision on Friday. I plan to drive the car to the BMW lot Friday morning and compare against the X3. Interestingly, the BMW dealer gave me the same "I never sell a car under invoice" speech you got.

In the 20 minutes or so driving the MO, sweet car, especially the backup camera and the intelligent key.
Doesn't sound too bad, but you might be able to get better. Check out www.carsdirect.com and see what they're listing it for. With my configuration on an 04 they were quoting a price nearly $1000 below invoice. A dealership should be able to BEAT this price, since buying through CarsDirect splits the profit between the dealer and CarsDirect.

Print out the CarsDirect pricing sheet and take that in to show the dealer. See if they'll at least match it.
 

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Personally, I think a better choice would be to tell them you'll buy at 500 under and stand firm when you say they'll offer you 1000 over. Demanding 2000 under simply tells the dealership that you're unreasonable, and probably wouldn't buy even if they said OK. I think you'll be getting that reaction from most dealers in terms of them counteroffering you. Put yourself in their position .. if you were selling something ... a house, a camera, anything. If you had a potential 'buyer' way below what you wanted to sell it for, you probably wouldn't counteroffer either.

Remember, these car dealers have a lot of experience selling cars to all types of buyers. Their experience shows them that people who are unreasonable probably won't buy anyway, or maybe couldn't get financed, or are strokers (term for people who look but don't buy), not that any of those are YOU.

If you offer them a deal that's 'possible' I think you'll get a lot better reaction, like $500 under. Though I think $500 under will be tough on an 05 in either case. There's simply no reason to sell an 05 at that price yet. Of course that's different for 04's ... get em off the lot is the motto.

Just my 2 cents and please don't be offended.

REVHIGH !!!
 

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Corin said:


Well, to be honest I'm not expecting to be able to get $2k under invoice. But since I know that they can go $500 or more below invoice, I've decided to start with a target at $2k below and see what they come back with. If I start at $500 under, then they'll counter with $1k over or some such number.

The main point is that they still do make a substantial profit (at least for Nissan) selling at or a little below invoice. Yeah, $2k probably breaks them, but they should at least come back with a counter offer.

What is the substantial profit for the dealer with an invoice sale(on an 05)? The only number I have found is the 2 percent holdback and that has to cover cost of money, real estate, salaries etc.

I think an accountant would tell you that a sale at invoice is a sale at a loss( there are no other incentives per my 12 buck fee for a CR report) and why is the dealership in business anyway?

I am not a salesperson.... really!, But I am trying to figure out what I can realistically WALK OUT with a MO for.
 

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For what its worth, I bought an 04 in the Seattle area earlier this month. I talked with three dealers and all were doing "invoice pricing" for internet customers "or a little under." The "little under" turned out to be <$500 after a little prodding. I would imagine it would be even less on an '05.

All the dealers I spoke with were able to give me pricing information over the phone, which I wanted before I even stepped foot onto the lot.
 

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Corin said:


So my next step is to do the "fax attack" method (although via e-mail) and see what I can get. I'm certainly not all too pleased with how this dealership is treating me (even before talking price) so if they don't want my business I'm sure someone else will. :D
Corin - Let us know how your "fax/email attack" works out. I've been thinking about trying this method myself. I recently heard about it and actually spoke to the guys at dightingchance.com. They definitely sound like they know the new car market.

BTW I'm in the NJ area. So if anyone has used the fax attack startegy in NJ please post your experience.
 

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saito said:
I'm looking at a 2005 SL AWD with Chrome Wheels, SL Touring Package, Technology Package, Cargo Protector, Floor Mats, Roof Rack Crossbars, and Splash Guards.

MSRP is $39,040, invoice is $35,296 and the dealer is offering it to me for $519 under invoice, which is basically the dealer holdback, to make the offer $34,777 with 3% financing.
Saito - Which dealership did you get this deal from and where are they located? It sounds really good. I'm also looking to get a 2005 SL AWD w/touring, tech, VDC, splash grds, cargo protect., floor mats, and roof crossbars. Thanks.
 

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Harte Nissan in beautiful Hartford, CT.
 

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Cool Hartford is not too too far from NJ. Just a couple of hours drive. Now to see if these NJ Dealers will get to your numbers... otherwise I'll have to call CT! :D
 

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Corin, looking over your option list you might want to check into aftermarket towing packages. I shopped around a bit and my eventual cost was less than half what the dealer wanted for a hitch and wiring. Saved about $400CDN.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for all the input and discussion, everyone! And no offense was taken.

Several people that I have talked to have had very good success with the fax-attack method, which is why I'm going to try it. Hopefully it will prove to be effective. I'm willing to buy from any dealer within Washington State and drive to get it, so I'm sure I'll have a lot of options from a lot of dealers.

Yeah, $2k under invoice is probably too far to start. Although for this particular situation they were wanting me to come up with a number to make my decision right then and there without having the chance to ask around at other dealers, so in that situation they really would have had to agree to that price. After I ask around and see what kind of offers I can get from various dealers, then the number that I require to put my money down will most likely change.

Besides, as I mentioned, I'm not all too pleased with this dealership anyway, so having them P.O'd at me is no big loss... :p

Now that Thanksgiving is over and all the company is leaving town, I'll be able to focus on my car shopping. Hopefully I'll have some very good news to report soon! I want to get my order in by Christmas at the lastest, which means I'll receive my MO around March.
 
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