[kelowna_realtor]

Has anyone had a fuel filter changed yet ?. After owning Fords forever, I am a little gun shy about a filter causing a burnt out electric fuel pump , yet when I asked about it at our local dealer , they said the only filter is in the tank and not a normal maintainance item. This goes against everything I've ever learned. On the brighter side , I love my car ! :10:

 

[Eric L.]

The FSM does confirm that the fuel filter for the Murano is attached to the fuel pump in the gas tank. Normally the fuel filter is not a service item, even on Nissans with replacable fuel filters.

 

[esemes]

does the MO have an in-tank pump/pick-up, or an exterior (inline) pump and filter??

i need to review my new literature to see..........

 

[Eric L.]

I think its in the gas tank, since the FSM shows the fuel pump assembly schematic, and the fuel filter is one its components.

 

[CVeeT]

Fuel filters generally don't need replacement and these can last for 100,000 miles, unless of course it is FORD

 

[Halo]

...Or a VW. I had the fuel filter replaced TWICE on my 88 GTI at 20 and 24K miles. Their QC has improved dramatically since then though, even in Pueblo or wherever.

 

[Enforcer]

LOL!

Well...my 2c.

The fuel filter needs to be before the pump and putting the pump in the tank is the best way to avoid vapor lock. I had a Ford PU that would vapor lock all the time, then installed my own fuel pump closer to the tanks (after the dual tank solenoid)...problem fixed. But made filter access tougher.

How long a filter lasts really depends on how much crap is in the fuel tanks at the gas stations.

 

[bob1]

This thread needed a bump. I started thinking about the fuel filter and to my surprise......see the thread.
I still don't get it. What happens to the floating debris?
BTW, who is that guy at the top of the thread that took my Woodstock avatar? Oh... maybe I took his!
Bob1

 

[dklanecky1]

I had a 95 Maxima GLE that was totaled at 192,xxx miles and it was still on it's original fuel filter (in the gas tank also). My 00 Maxima SE is at 143,xxx miles and still going strong on it's also original in tank fuel filter.

I think we're safe UNLESS you are regularly buying the cheapest, gas you can find and also the same day you see the pumper truck filling up the stations underground storage.

Another possibility of course is that in my area of the US (SE Wisconsin), we have recently (last 6-8 years) had a legal statute that required all under ground gasoline storage tanks to be replaced with new non rusting types.

Maybe that's why I've had such good luck with the intank fuel filters?

 

[Eric L.]

I had a 95 Maxima GLE that was totaled at 192,xxx miles and it was still on it's original fuel filter (in the gas tank also). My 00 Maxima SE is at 143,xxx miles and still going strong on it's also original in tank fuel filter.

I think we're safe UNLESS you are regularly buying the cheapest, gas you can find and also the same day you see the pumper truck filling up the stations underground storage.

Another possibility of course is that in my area of the US (SE Wisconsin), we have recently (last 6-8 years) had a legal statute that required all under ground gasoline storage tanks to be replaced with new non rusting types.

Maybe that's why I've had such good luck with the intank fuel filters?

My 97 Maxima has the fuel filter on the firewall of the hood (replaced it every 30,000 miles usually). I guess the 1995 model had it different.

 

[Eric L.]

Don't forget also that the gas stations themselves have in line filters. One time in San Francisco I finished filling up at a 76 station on 91 octane (the best you can get in California :3: ) and a tanker pulled up right next to my car. The driver started to fill the tank and I was watching, so he just started to talk to me. He told me how the midgrade is just a mix of regular and super (they do not actually manufacture 89 octane, they just mix it). He also said that 76 regularly inspects the station's filters to make sure they are functioning correctly.

Perhaps it is because of the installation of these filters at the gas station that Nissan no longer has a serviceable fuel filter.

 

[hfelknor]

Hey Bob, do you mean when the tanks needed replacing they were replaced with Non leak tanks?

Or do you mean that every tank in the state was replaced with non leak whether they were leaking or not?
Shazam. That would be expeeeennnnnssssiiiivvvvve!

Homer

 

[Eric L.]

I remember when California phased out MTBE,all tanks were replaced.

 

[dklanecky1]

Hey Bob, do you mean when the tanks needed replacing they were replaced with Non leak tanks?

Or do you mean that every tank in the state was replaced with non leak whether they were leaking or not?
Shazam. That would be expeeeennnnnssssiiiivvvvve!

Homer

It's Doug, and yes, as far as I know, every tank in the state. For certain every tank in SE Wisconsin. A lot of small ma and pa operators just went out of business rather than face the expense and the lost business while they were closed for the change out.

Even the big operators had to close down their stations for a minimum of a month for the destruction of the parking lots and the construction and inspection of the new tanks.

I'm guessing we probably have one of the newest population of gas stations in the country as a lot of them just remodeled the buildings at the same time.

 

[SugarRushMurano]

Eric L...

He told me how the midgrade is just a mix of regular and super (they do not actually manufacture 89 octane, they just mix it

Funny, that is exactly what my prof of economic told me when i took his class years ago in school. He used to work with BP. I did not 100% buy it at that time, but now since you mentioned it...

 

[Eric L.]

A little more info on the story of 91 octane in California. The story you are about to hear is one I have heard from multiple sources (it was widely on the internet when this happened, but I don't see any evidence of it now.)

As most CA people probably remember, super used to be 92 octane. Then one summer the Unocal group (76, Phillips, Conoco) came up with a method to blend 92 octane fuel at a substantially lower cost than existing techniques employed by its competitors such as Chevron or Shell. This put Unocal at a substantial price advantage over its competitors, and Unocal offered to license this proprietary technique to its competitors for a fee. Rather than pay its competitor, Chevron, Shell, Valero, etc... basically did one over on Unocal by deciding to switch to marketing 91 octane instead (where no refiner had any cost advantage over the other). So literally overnight, super went from 92 to 91, and the cost to the customer did not change. Oil companies basically got to sell a cheaper product, for the same price, and Unocal got a big screw you from its competitors. Ironically, 76 stations kept 92 the longest, taking almost a month to completely switch over, suggesting this story may indeed be true. Sneaky huh?

I've heard other tales about how 92 octane was prohibitively expensive with the California Reformulated Gasoline formula, so 91 was used instead. But thats not nearly as interesting as the Unocal story.

Sorry if this is off topic, but I think most California folks would find it interesting.

 

[Eric L.]

Here's an article from SportCompactCar which explains the story:

Technobabble: January 2002
The Octane Game

By Dave Coleman

Californians just got screwed.

Hard.

By the time you read this, residents of Nevada and Arizona will have been screwed too. What, you don't live there? Just wait, you're next.

It's not like West Coasters haven't been screwed before. From roadside smog dynos to tickets for shiny mufflers, we're used to the man getting us down, but this time they're hitting us where we eat. This time they're taking our gas. We already have pretty crappy premium fuel in California. Just like most of the West Coast, we're stuck with 92 octane, while much of the Midwest and the East Coast got to play with 93 or better. Now, as of August 1, 2001, the best we can get is 91. Time to turn down the boost.

On the off chance you're only now trading in your Schwinn 10-speed on a twin-turbo Supra, I guess I should stop here and explain what octane is and how it affects your engine.

When fuel is injected into the cylinder, compressed and ignited, one of two things can happen. It either burns quickly and smoothly, shoving the piston down with a strong, even push, or it explodes all at once, releasing its energy in a sudden burst of heat and pressure. This explosion is called knocking or pinging, and it's something engineers like to call "really bad."

Knock is usually ill timed, occurring early in the combustion cycle when the crank and rod are still straight up or even worse, still trying to complete the compression stroke. As a result, all the energy released slams into the top of the piston without actually turning the crank. When this happens under stressful enough conditions-like, 20-psi of boost in a Miata-you start breaking things. Usually the ring lands; however, if your pistons are strong enough, you might get lucky and blow a head gasket.

Octane, for those of you still on the bike, is the rating of a fuel's ability to not do this. The higher the number, the less likely the fuel is to detonate. What this means to us, of course, is the higher the number, the more boost we can throw at that Miata. High-octane gas isn't just for tuners though. Plenty of stock cars depend on the stuff, including a Celica GT-S with its 11.5:1 compression, or a turbocharged WRX or Volkswagen 1.8T.

These cars rely on high-octane gas to keep from detonating. Feed them 91 octane and they won't start breaking things, because their knock sensors will see it coming and retard the timing, turn down the boost or otherwise reduce your chances of having any fun.

Whose fault is it this time, CARB? The EPA? The CHP? None of the above. This time we're being victimized partly by the oil companies, and partly-this is the one that hurts-by ourselves.

You see, when crude oil is refined into gasoline, the refinery doesn't have all that much control over what comes out. Crude oil is full of all kinds of stuff, and a refinery simply separates it, sorting all the iso-this and hepta-that in order of density. The really heavy stuff, like tar, is near the bottom, while the really light stuff, like butane, is near the top.

Somewhere in the upper ranges of the stack are the components of gasoline. There are between 10 and 15 different blend stocks, each with a different octane rating, which are mixed together to make gasoline.

The crude oil being used and little else determine the amount of each blend stock available for mixing. Generally, if you just dump all the blend stocks into a bucket, you end up with something around 88 or 89 octane. If you're selective and only mix the good stuff, you can make 92, 93 or even 95 octane. But once you take out the good stuff, you're left with crap-something like 85 octane. Then you have to leave enough good stuff in the bucket to bring this pee-water up to at least 87 octane. This limits the amount of 95-octane gas you can make. If you make 93-octane premium instead, you use up less of the high-octane stocks, allowing you to make a higher proportion of premium fuel.

In the Midwest, where an extensive customer base of good old boys in pickup trucks consume vast quantities of 87 octane, demand for premium fuel is low enough to make genuine high-octane premium.

In California, however, Lexus-driving executives suck down premium fuel like it's Evian, so 92 was the rule.

CARB isn't entirely innocent. Many of its standards for evaporative emissions and misdirected attempts at oxygenation have raised the manufacturing cost of high-octane gas, but it doesn't seem to be behind the sudden change to 91. Instead, according my super-secret oil industry mole, it all comes back to money. Unocal, you see, has a patent on the 173 easiest ways to make California-friendly 92-octane gas. As a result, every other oil company has to pay Unocal 5.75 cents for every gallon they make using one of these techniques. They haven't actually been paying it, but that's an issue for the lawyers to sort out.

Suddenly it's pretty obvious why our gas sucks, but why doesn't Unocal still sell us 92? Because it can't. In 1997, Unocal sold off all its 76 gas stations, and with them, its ability to decide what kind of gas to make. All Unocal can do now is look for oil, suck it out of the ground, and wish it had some way to make everybody else keep using its patents. You see, not only did Unocal screw us, they screwed themselves.

Ironically, the only gas stations in California with anything better than 91 octane are the ones Unocal used to own-the few 76 stations offering 100-octane race fuel. You can locate these elusive stations at www.76.com, but bring your wallet.