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Just received the following email. I wonder who generated it? Will it work? I do not believe that "supply and demand" apply to gas prices now. It is simply profit taking and speculations.


"Join the resistance!!! I hear we are going to hit close to $4.00 a gallon by next summer and it might go higher!!! Want gasoline prices to come down? We need to take some intelligent, united action. Phillip Hollsworth offered this good idea.

This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain day" campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt" ourselves by refusing to buy gas. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them. BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work. Please read on and join with us! By now you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $1.50 is super cheap. Me too! It is currently $2.79 for regular unleaded in my town. Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50 - $1.75, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace... not sellers. With the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of gas come down is if we hit someone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their gas! And, we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. How? Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas. But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to force a price war.

Here's the idea:

For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline from the two biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL. If they are not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon and Mobil gas buyers. It's really simple to do! Now, don't wimp out at this point... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people. I am sending this note to 30 people. If each of us sends it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000)...and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth group of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers. If those three million get excited and pass this on
to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it... THREE>>>>HUNDRED>>>>MILLION >>>>PEOPLE!!!

Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all. (If you don't understand how we can reach 300 million and all you have to do is send this to 10 people... Well, let's face it, you just aren't a mathematician. But I am, so trust me on this one.) How long would all that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!! I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you? Acting together we can make a difference. If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on. I suggest that we not buy from EXXON/MOBIL UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30 RANGE AND KEEP THEM DOWN.

THIS CAN REALLY WORK. "
 

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Won't work.
Not even sure that anybody would want it to work.

Won't work - First of all, Exxon and Mobil are one company.
They supply (I believe) about 20% of the gasoline in the US.
We couldn't operate without that 20% and no one else can make that up.

Of course, we can pick on pure US companies like Exxon Mobile (NYSE symbol XOM) and we can buy our gas from Citgo.
Citgo is wholely owned by the Venezuelan government.
In other words, Hugo Chavez.
So if people would rather spend their money with a Communist Dictator than an American Company, this is the way to go.


Look, high gas prices (Crude, really) is a WORLD problem, not a US problem.
It really is a supply and demand problem.

Do you think our usage has gone down?
Well, it hasn't. It grows a bit every year with our population. We will hit 300 million before the end of the year. We weer at 200 million just about 35 years ago.
We will hit 400 million by 2050 (Unless immigration is dealt with by a government that has not shown the back bone to deal with it).

And just what do you suppose India's usage is doing these days?
Doubling every 10 years would be about right, but that will probably accelerate.
And China? China is just beginning. They are buying huge futures contracts. They could double their usage every 5 years. Or sooner.

Is there still more oil than has already been pumped?
Most oilheads will tell you, no.
Read about Huberts Peak (Google). And keep in mind that Huberts Peak was about the uS.
But the theory holds for the world too.
Some believe we have already peaked at production.
I am one of those people.

Then there is the fact that oil is produced by politically stable countries like Iraq, Iran, Niger, venezuela, Saudi Arabia.............so why wouldn't there be plenty of oil....... :rolleyes:

Oil prices are controlled a good bit by future contracts.
I will sell you a few million barrels of oil at $65 barrel one year from now......no, I thought about t a bit.......there's that kook in Iran.........and the one n Venezuela............maybe I want $75 a barrel.....
You have no choice, really.
Now, when next year comes around what if there is plenty of oil?
Well, I have you under contract.
Of course, if the spot price of oil is then $100 barrel, you have a good deal, because I will sell to you at $75........

The fact that gasoline needs to be refined also enters the picture.
I need to build more refineries. There hasn't been one built in the US since the 80s.
Everybody wants me to build another one......but not in their back yard....and the Sierra Club would rather I didn't build one at all.

Some of the refineries were knocked out by Hurricane Katrina.......and Rita........most are back up, but not all............

This stuff is not simple.

Homer
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Wow! Homer, you really got into it! Yes, I agree this is not simple issue and there is no simple solution. But it would not hurt if we followed Brasil with their approach to fuel shortage - ethanol! In the end it is renewable, clean, our farmers would benefit, we could be less dependent on some of the oil countires:D

I know what Huberts Peak is and it scares me.....
 

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In the short term the largest impact on automobile related oil consumption can be made by driving less. I know there are some who say "but I have to drive since its my living." Ok fine, but everyone can cut out a little bit of driving now and then. And every bit makes a difference.

I must admit I've been driving a lot less lately. Its not even related to the price of gas, just circumstances. But I appreciate that I can go an extra week without a fillup now, considering gas is pushing $3/gallon.
 

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anyone knows whos calling those gas prices up?I hear on news,paper,etc etc gas are goin up news everywhere about gas being so high,but whos calling those prices up?they dont say that on the news whos behind all this, how come they dont say who and why is calling those prices so high.
 

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enamurao said:
anyone knows whos calling those gas prices up?I hear on news,paper,etc etc gas are goin up news everywhere about gas being so high,but whos calling those prices up?they dont say that on the news whos behind all this, how come they dont say who and why is calling those prices so high.
Speculation on petroleum options and futures (which tends to set the actual price suppliers buy them at, because they lock prices into contracts to hedge against future fluctuations) is what drives up prices. Its easy to think ExxonMobile called up BP and ConocoPhilips and said "you know, I think $2.60 a gallon is too low, how about we make it $3.00?" - but thats not quite how oil prices work.
 

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hfelknor said:
Won't work.
Not even sure that anybody would want it to work.

Won't work - First of all, Exxon and Mobil are one company.
They supply (I believe) about 20% of the gasoline in the US.
We couldn't operate without that 20% and no one else can make that up.

Of course, we can pick on pure US companies like Exxon Mobile (NYSE symbol XOM) and we can buy our gas from Citgo.
Citgo is wholely owned by the Venezuelan government.
In other words, Hugo Chavez.
So if people would rather spend their money with a Communist Dictator than an American Company, this is the way to go.


Look, high gas prices (Crude, really) is a WORLD problem, not a US problem.
It really is a supply and demand problem.

Do you think our usage has gone down?
Well, it hasn't. It grows a bit every year with our population. We will hit 300 million before the end of the year. We weer at 200 million just about 35 years ago.
We will hit 400 million by 2050 (Unless immigration is dealt with by a government that has not shown the back bone to deal with it).

And just what do you suppose India's usage is doing these days?
Doubling every 10 years would be about right, but that will probably accelerate.
And China? China is just beginning. They are buying huge futures contracts. They could double their usage every 5 years. Or sooner.

Is there still more oil than has already been pumped?
Most oilheads will tell you, no.
Read about Huberts Peak (Google). And keep in mind that Huberts Peak was about the uS.
But the theory holds for the world too.
Some believe we have already peaked at production.
I am one of those people.

Then there is the fact that oil is produced by politically stable countries like Iraq, Iran, Niger, venezuela, Saudi Arabia.............so why wouldn't there be plenty of oil....... :rolleyes:

Oil prices are controlled a good bit by future contracts.
I will sell you a few million barrels of oil at $65 barrel one year from now......no, I thought about t a bit.......there's that kook in Iran.........and the one n Venezuela............maybe I want $75 a barrel.....
You have no choice, really.
Now, when next year comes around what if there is plenty of oil?
Well, I have you under contract.
Of course, if the spot price of oil is then $100 barrel, you have a good deal, because I will sell to you at $75........

The fact that gasoline needs to be refined also enters the picture.
I need to build more refineries. There hasn't been one built in the US since the 80s.
Everybody wants me to build another one......but not in their back yard....and the Sierra Club would rather I didn't build one at all.

Some of the refineries were knocked out by Hurricane Katrina.......and Rita........most are back up, but not all............

This stuff is not simple.

Homer
Homer
You are right on the money with all of this. If you really want to effect fuel consumption, slow down by 5-10 MPH. For every 10MPH above 60 MPH your fuel consumption goes up by 17%, so if you are traveling at 80MPH your are consuming 34% more fuel than you are at 60 MPH.

Fuel Prices in Calgary are $4.28 CDN a US Gal and it is costing me close to $90 to fill my tank and we produce the oil in this province. So I do not mind saving 34% by driving a little slower.

Imagine if everyone slowed downed by 5 MPH and reduced there consumption, that sort of demand drop would peak the oil traders interest.:soapbox:
 

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. For every 10MPH above 60 MPH your fuel consumption goes up by 17%, so if you are traveling at 80MPH your are consuming 34% more fuel than you are at 60 MPH.

but you will also get to your destination sooner,a 60 mile trip to go to work at 80mph you can make it in 40minutes and at 60mph will take you a full hour,meaning another 20 minutes with car running and burning gas.
 

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enamurao said:
. For every 10MPH above 60 MPH your fuel consumption goes up by 17%, so if you are traveling at 80MPH your are consuming 34% more fuel than you are at 60 MPH.

but you will also get to your destination sooner,a 60 mile trip to go to work at 80mph you can make it in 40minutes and at 60mph will take you a full hour,meaning another 20 minutes with car running and burning gas.
not always true, since a lot of people who drive fast end up having to slow down for slower traffic anyways, and while they get there a bit sooner, its not proportional to how fast they think they've been driving.
 

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The Unfortunate Reality

Just so we are clear, I LOVE my MO and am already feeling the financial pain of rising gas prices - I truly wish it weren't so.

However, if we look beyond the $4/gallon problem we'll be facing this summer, we have a potentially bigger issue to deal with - fossil fuel supplies will likely diminish in our lifetime. I am not a pundit for these things, but have seen a variety of presentations recently (I work in the semiconductor industry) that seem to be converging on the common position that we have already reached, or soon will, the point of "peak oil".

If this is true, and I'm not saying it is (but we should be willing to consider the possbility), then ANY fuel that is used for automobiles will almost certainly be more expensive than what we are paying today. Even if we find ways to reduce the cost of pulling oil out of the Canadian sands (or the like), it has to be more expensive than what it costs today to tap productive oil wells.

So, to bring this all they way around back to Kris' first post, we may see gas prices increase & decrease in the short run, but I think the reality is that they will continue to trend upward in the long term.

Here is one presentation on the subject: http://www.hubbertpeak.com/de/lecture.html

Attached is an excerpt from the presentation on oil supply projections.

By the way, I do encourage everyone to support whatever piece of the educational system you believe in, because the solution to a problem like this will come from our educated & inspired children.

Cheers,
JDB
 

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i've been telling my dad for the last year to get rid of his gas guzzling v8 truck. what does he use it for? mainly to get to work and back twice a day so it's about 50km per day of driving. the truck is pretty much uneeded for us so i keep nagging him to buy a small 4 cyl car. gas prices are up to 108.5 c/litre but you still see people driving around in their big trucks and suvs picking up children. you don't see any of these trucks or suvs hauling a load or pulling boats behind them. i mean isn't that what these people initially purchased these monsters for?? you'd like to think so but that isn't reality. reality is that people have too much money these days and spend it on these monster and end up hauling around 1 or 2 kids and the main reason they bought it is because it has a dvd player so the kids don't get bored or complain on the short commutes to the grocery store or the mall.

i'm still a huge believer in the fact that the big three car companies(mainly gm) are the ones controlling the oil and gas prices. this mentality is strengthened now that gm is starting to produce the E85 ethanol cars and trucks. i think that they've realized that oil won't be available for long and they have to start investing into something that will. all these japanese companies with their hybrids won't last too long if this is their main technology because hybrids still need gas.

i hope some of what i said made sense. that's just my point of view.
 

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"i'm still a huge believer in the fact that the big three car companies(mainly gm) are the ones controlling the oil and gas prices."


Boy are the people in England, France, Germany, the slaviks, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Thailand, Australia, japan, etc, etc, going to be pissed when they find out that it's Chevy and Ford's fault that their gas prices are going up.


Homer
 

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sorry but i don't understand?? is it because opel, holden and other gm/ford derivatives are so prevalent in those countries?? is do you mean that it's just another reason to blame something american?? i'm of Polish decent and i can't seem to grasp your last comment...
 

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hfelknor said:
"i'm still a huge believer in the fact that the big three car companies(mainly gm) are the ones controlling the oil and gas prices."


Boy are the people in England, France, Germany, the slaviks, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Thailand, Australia, japan, etc, etc, going to be pissed when they find out that it's Chevy and Ford's fault that their gas prices are going up.


Homer



Unfortunately...the meter is broken...AGAIN!!!!
 

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nissanlove said:

i'm still a huge believer in the fact that the big three car companies(mainly gm) are the ones controlling the oil and gas prices. this mentality is strengthened now that gm is starting to produce the E85 ethanol cars and trucks. i think that they've realized that oil won't be available for long and they have to start investing into something that will. all these japanese companies with their hybrids won't last too long if this is their main technology because hybrids still need gas.
I don't think hybrid is inherently incompatible with E85. E85 engines are almost identical to gasoline engines. Because ethanol is water soluble and more corrosive, some parts exposed to the fuel need to be redesigned/replaced for E85. In fact, in the early days of automobile, some Ford Model T's were modified by farmers to use E85 (didn't have the name E85 but essentially the same ethanol). If there is a requirement for E85, most cars can be made to run on it.
 

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but hybrid cars a still expensive to manufacture and according to consumer reports they also don't hold their resale value as well and they don't forsee either of these changing in the near future. we as a global nation and consumers need these things to change as soon as possible.
 

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Hybrid cars are NOT the answer... Hydrogen Turbine engines baby... that is were we should be looking for the future.... Hydrogen Turbines.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
some info:

Ethanol industry increased capacity 29% in 2005
By the end of 2006, U.S. will overtake Brazil as world’s leading fuel ethanol producing country
Industry sanctioned by the U.S. Government
Signing of the Energy Policy of 2005 last summer
Renewable Fuels Standard (RFS) requires doubling of use of ethanol and biodiesel by 2012
Increase in production between 2005 and 2015 will result in 3.7 billion fewer barrels of oil imported, saving nearly $200 Billion
Growth occurring outside traditional “Corn Belt”
 

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well it looks like we'll all be going back to gm then haha.
 

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I think the recent increase in ethanol production has to do more with its replacement of MTBE than using straight ethanol as an alternative fuel, or even as E85.
 
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