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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
The last four gas fill-ups, I've used 89 octane and STP High Mileage additive, and today I finally got the P0420 code (that I typically get twice a year) when I tried to accelerate too fast for too long up a hill going 60 MPH. MO started shaking, engine was sputtering and I had loss of power. I backed off, coasted down the hill at 55 MPH, then pulled over. Stopped, restarted and was on my way and MO was running fine. About 15 miles later the SES light came out and I took my scanner and read it. Reset the light while driving, and it never came on during the last hour of my journey. First time I've gotten that code this year. Looks like it's back to 93 octane and another can of lacquer thinner... :)
 

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While driving 55MPH under cruise, it felt like MO was being nudged around by gusts of wind, and then it felt like MO was gliding on a layer of ice or almost floating on air, and then the engine started feeling like it was sputtering and the tach needle started having some wacky movement from 1000-2000RPMs

When engaging cruise at 40MPH, those series of sensations happened again slightly.
If the engine is hot and feels like it dies for a split second on the highway, your cam position sensors might be going out. Mine did that at ~285K. It would lose power on the interstate for a split second and then be fine. Then it started stalling when I was at a stop light too, but it would restart after cranking for a few seconds.

Finally threw a rear cam position sensor code, so I lumbered over to a Advance Auto, got the sensor and replaced it. Its been fine since! The other one was replaced with a lower-mileage junkyard sensor for now.

I'm currently at 287,400ish miles. You gonna catch me or what? Haha. Its a 2006, original engine and trans. Replaced a lot of other parts but she's never let down, costs me maybe a grand a year including tires to keep her on the road, not bad!
 

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Discussion Starter #23
If the engine is hot and feels like it dies for a split second on the highway, your cam position sensors might be going out. Mine did that at ~285K. It would lose power on the interstate for a split second and then be fine. Then it started stalling when I was at a stop light too, but it would restart after cranking for a few seconds.

I'm currently at 287,400ish miles. You gonna catch me or what? Haha. Its a 2006, original engine and trans. Replaced a lot of other parts but she's never let down, costs me maybe a grand a year including tires to keep her on the road, not bad!
I don't have quite the same symptoms that your MO had. Many people have very similar problems, but many times there are nuances of issues that point to something else. But thanks for the info.

I'm at 282,000 right now...catching up fast. :) I've been averaging about 35K per year for the last few years, which is one of the reasons I change my plugs and coils every 12 months, despite them being able to last 100K miles. MO runs better and smoother with these new parts.

Pretty impressive with the original tranny and engine and 287K+ miles.... I really think my problem was driving in Ds mode too often. Or maybe dropping from D to Ds a lot. I've only been driving in D since installing this used tranny, and things have been fine. Of course, if was from a 2006 Murano, so who's to say... My heads were replaced at 57K under warranty, so I don't have quite the mileage on the entire engine that you have. I'm still using the original water pump and thermostat, though.
 

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The only interior problem is a the vinyl on the side of the leather drive'rs side is splitting from dry rot but since it's Speed Test black, good strong black duct tape makes for an easy and decent looking repair.

[Post was edited to remove a commercial link in the middle of the text. Members, please edit and remove any links that your software inserts into posts - Mod]
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
Odometer: 285,500

After driving for an hour, I was going along a straight, gentle up-and-down road with cruise at 30MPH when MO slowed abruptly - it kind of felt like a drag-racing parachute rapidly deployed to slow things down . I pushed on the gas pedal, but that made her bog down (smoothly...like there was no power) so I kicked off cruise, tried to feather the pedal, but that did nothing. Pressing the pedal made MO go slower with no feeling of power, and releasing the pedal made her go slow, smooth and steady. About 1/4 mile later, while coasting down a gradual hill, the engine stalled and could not be restarted. My guess is, the original fuel pump died, and I was able to get as far I did with whatever gas was left in the line. It was something I was expecting to fail, yet I never took it seriously enough to bother replacing it to prevent this breakdown from happening. Since it was 20-degrees out and I've got some other things to contend with, I had it brought to my mechanic who will check it out in a few days.

I knew I was pushing my luck with that pump. Although when it happened it felt like the fuel pump was the issue, I still spent about 15 minutes disconnecting/reconnecting certain electrical components, battery terminals, vacuum lines, etc, hoping that something might work. If there was easy access to the fuel hose that enters the pump at the tank (and if I had spare hose and a connector to add length to it, and if I had a gas can) I might have tried disconnecting the fuel line, adding more length, then connecting that whole thing to a gas can and hanging it up high in the back to see if MO would run using gravity-fed fuel. Any thoughts on that working?

At the time, I forgot to check fuse box #1 on the pass-side near the coolant overflow tank. I only checked the ones under the dash and near the battery. I wonder if it could simply be a bad fuse.

UPDATE: I went and checked that 15amp fuse and it's fine. I need to keep a detailed list/diagram of what fuse boxes contain what things. I was surprised that the inside cover of fuse box #1 didn't contain any info for the relays, only the fuses, so I'll have to make another trip tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
I think I'll try swapping relays from the A/C to fuel pump. The online diagram seems to picture them being identical in size, but I'll have to wait to see if the numbers on the tops of those relays match. Does anyone know off hand if they do? R1 and R2 on fuse box #1 near the coolant overflow tank. Thanks.

UPDATE: The relays are the same, but I couldn't get them to budge to remove. Didn't help that on the 1st Gen MOs the wire cluster comes up from the left side (against the coolant overflow tank) and is contained within a shroud/sleeve that prevents the entire fuse/relay board from being lifted out straight. Looks like you have to remove the tank in order to remove that shroud to allow more play in that wiring. Or, disconnect 2-3 main connectors to the board, which are always fun to play with. I only had some needle nose pliers, plain pliers and a flat screwdriver with me, so there wasn't much I could do. I didn't want to squeeze the relay so hard that it would shatter, so I gave up and will simply let my mechanic do his thing. I just hate having MO sitting in an opened parking lot for the next two days...

BTW, I always keep a lot of tools and spare parts in MO in case I ever break down somewhere remote. I also keep a few heavy duty, 44 gallon trash bags in the car in case I ever have to abandon her and get a ride home. This way I can toss everything in the bags and take it with me. Those bags came in handy yesterday while I waited for the ramp truck and my ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #27 (Edited)
Yesterday, I didn't realize the fuel pump was easily accessible under the rear seat. I always thought the gas tank had to be dropped in order to remove the fuel pump contained inside. Had I known this, I would've had MO brought back to my home and I would've done this job myself. And also had I known this, I would've replaced that pump a few years ago. I just never relished the thought of having to crawl under the car to drop the tank. Tempted to call AAA and have MO brought back home... My mechanic is swamped anyway, which is why he can't look at it until Fri/Sat.

While I could rig up a special tool to work, does anyone know if that retaining ring tool used to remove/reinstall the fuel pump is available to use/rent from Autozone or other parts stores?
 

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Yesterday, I didn't realize the fuel pump was easily accessible under the rear seat. I always thought the gas tank had to be dropped in order to remove the fuel punp contained inside. Had I known this, I would've had MO brought back to my home and I would've done this job myself. And also had I known this, I would've replaced that pump a few years ago. I just never relished the thought of having to crawl under the car to drop the tank. Tempted to call AAA and have MO brought back home... My mechanic is swamped anyway, which is why he can't look at it until Fri/Sat.

While I could rig up a special tool to work, does anyone know if that retaining ring tool used to remove/reinstall the fuel pump is available to use/rent from Autozone or other parts stores?
No need to rig up anything special...just use a hammer and cold chisel wedged into one of the grooves and tap the ring counterclockwise like in this video (see about 8:00). It may help to spray some penetrating oil before doing it.

 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
No need to rig up anything special...just use a hammer and cold chisel wedged into one of the grooves and tap the ring counterclockwise like in this video (see about 8:00). It may help to spray some penetrating oil before doing it.
I've used similar techniques on other such rings, but around a gas tank? Hammering with a metal chisel? Are you being serious? I know the fuel is contained and any spark from tools shouldn't do anything to cause an explosion, but I'd rather not bang around the gas tank. :D I think I could just as easily use two long-shafted eyelet hooks with a long screwdriver or bar, and just spin it off. I have a few other ideas, too. Thanks.

EDIT: And as luck would have it, I had just filled up the fuel tank 15 minutes before MO died yesterday... Wouldn't it be funny if the act of removing the gas cap and putting it back cured some kind of vapor-lock thing and made MO fire right up. I can't believe I didn't think of at least trying that yesterday. Very doubtful it would solve anything, but I am disappointed that I didn't at least think of trying that, especially since I had just gassed up.
 

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I've used similar techniques on other such rings, but around a gas tank? Hammering with a metal chisel? Are you being serious? I know the fuel is contained and any spark from tools shouldn't do anything to cause an explosion, but I'd rather not bang around the gas tank. :D I think I could just as easily use two long-shafted eyelet hooks with a long screwdriver or bar, and just spin it off. I have a few other ideas, too. Thanks.

EDIT: And as luck would have it, I had just filled up the fuel tank 15 minutes before MO died yesterday... Wouldn't it be funny if the act of removing the gas cap and putting it back cured some kind of vapor-lock thing and made MO fire right up. I can't believe I didn't think of at least trying that yesterday. Very doubtful it would solve anything, but I am disappointed that I didn't at least think of trying that, especially since I had just gassed up.
If you're really worried about sparks then wrap a rag around the chisel so there's no metal-to-metal contact (or use a brass hammer/chisel if you own one). I think the general rule is that the gas tank shouldn't be full (or nearly full) when doing a fuel pump job so you should siphon out a few gallons of gas.
 

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I believe it's the vapors from gas that burns... So long as there's no indication of a gas leak or detectable gas vapor you should be okay I would think, but rely on your own good judgement...

If you feel uncomfortable, it may be better to just use the proper tool for safety and peace of mind...
 

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Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
I'm not actually worried... I could beat on that retaining ring with a hatchet while flicking hot ashes from a cigar and nothing would happen. It's all about preferences in doing things.

In most cases, I do believe in using the right tool for the right job (and doing a job safely) but there's always that innovative/creative part of me that loves to come up with new ways to do things while saving a buck, so... But I sometimes like to ask for others' input in case someone already has a great idea that I can use. The hammer and chisel method just doesn't do it for me. I'd rather find a less forceful way to finesse it off... As it stands, I can't get the el cheapo fuel pump delivered to me for 4-6 days, whereas my mechanic can get a better-quality pump today for three times the price, and can do the job tomorrow at a total cost of around $250. I'm going to pass on this DIY repair.

We pulled the seat and checked the connector, and the pump is getting power. Attached are some pics of the access area after I'd cleaned up the sand and much of the grime that covered everything (shown in the before pic.) Not sure how thorough the 2nd mechanic is (who's doing this job), so I decided to clean the area a little, just in case. I wished I'd thought of bringing a toothbrush and can of compressed air to really clean out the gunk in the grooves. Would hate to have crap fall into the tank.
 

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Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
The hammer and chisel method that the mechanic tried didn't work. They ended up spending $200 for the correct tool that was also needed for a different job, and it apparently took both mechanics' weight and muscle to spin off that retaining ring. In any case, MO runs fine again.

If interested, here's the dashcam footage of what happened. The date/time stamp is wrong, but at least it allowed me to see how long I was able to drive with whatever fuel was left in the line. Ended up being around three minutes and a distance of .7 miles.
 

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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
Went a couple hundred miles today with no issue, but it seemed like I was going through more gas than usual per the fuel gauge. Got home, did some stuff, went into to the garage and I almost passed out due to the intensity of gas fumes. I noticed fuel was all over the garage floor beneath MO, so I accessed the fuel pump and immediately saw the problem... Refer to attached "BEFORE" pic before reading on if you want to try to figure out what's wrong. Be sure not to look at the other thumbnail attachments... :)

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The green retaining clip that fits into the fuel line was missing, so that line was able to slide back off the fuel pump's stem about 30% of the way to the point where a friction flange or friction barb-like thing prevents it from completely popping off. I was really pissed off. I drove to the autoshop but it was closed, but I decided to look around where MO was parked, and there in the dirt I found the green clip. I was very lucky to find it, and even luckier than it hadn't been run over. Cleaned it up, slipped it into place, no more leak. Nice oversight by the mechanic. Imagine if the fuel line had completely popped off and gas was spewing everywhere? However, I'm guessing when the engineers designed this fuel line mating system, they probably figured someone would forget to reinsert that green clip, so they tried to make sure the fuel line couldn't simply pop off completely and create a bigger problem. But, since that unclipped fuel line can be removed fairly easily by hand, obviously it is possible that under certain conditons it could possibly come off completely.

Looks like that 2nd mechanic won't be working on my car again... I initially had concerns when he popped off the plastic seat bracket covers/shrouds and broke off the holding tabs and joked like it was no big deal. I removed the other two (even though I didn't need to) and it took a couple of seconds longer per cover, but I didn't break any of those tabs. And I had never taken those off before...I just took an extra couple of seconds to feel what the part was doing, and made adjustments that weren't violent. He ripped off the first two covers the way that girl ripped off Steve's Carell's hot-waxed chest hair in The 40-Year-Old Virgin. But, seriously, I bet if I hadn't cleaned around the pump and ring before he did the job, he would've just yanked out the old one and let crap drop into the tank while putting in the new one. It's shoddy work like this that makes me not trust anyone to work on my car. Not enough mechanics really care about our vehicles.
 

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Drove about 250 miles today with no issue, but it seemed like I was going through a lot of gas per the fuel gauge. Got home, did some stuff, went back to the garage and gasoline was all over the floor and the intensity of the fumes nearly made me pass out. I accessed the fuel pump and immediately saw the problem... Refer to attached BEFORE pic before reading on if you're a pro and want to try to figure out what's wrong... Be sure not to look at the other thumbnail attachments... :)

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The green retaining clip that fits into the fuel line was missing, so that line was able to slide back off the fuel pump's stem about 30% of the way to the point where a friction flange or friction barb-like thing prevents it from completely popping off. I was really pissed off. I went back to the garage and they were closed, but I decided to look around where MO was parked, and there in the dirt I found that green retention clip. I was very lucky to find it, and even luckier than it hadn't been run over. Cleaned it up, slipped it into place, no more leak.

Looks like that 2nd mechanic won't be working on my car again... I had initial concerns when he popped off the plastic seat bracket covers/shrouds and broke off the holding tabs and made like it was no big deal. I removed the other two (even though I didn't need to) and it took a couple of seconds longer per cover, but I didn't break any of those tabs. And note that I've never taken those off before...I just took an extra couple of seconds to feel what the part was doing, and made adjustments that weren't violent. He ripped the first two covers off the way that girl ripped of Steve's Carell's waxed chest hair in The 40-Year-Old Virgin. :D But, seriously, I bet if I hadn't cleaned around the pump and ring before he did the job, he would've just yanked out the old one and let crap drop into the tank while putting in the new one. It's crap work like this that makes me not trust anyone to work on my car. Not enough mechanics really care about our vehicles.
This is why I don't like anyone else touching my cars unless I have no choice (I have my own stories). Professional mechanics are always in a rush to get the car out and get to the next one. Inevitably, they break things or forget things (or both). And yes, he would have replaced the pump without cleaning the area and let a bunch of crap fall in to the fuel tank.
 

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Discussion Starter #36 (Edited)
The ironic thing is, the day before he did the job, I was at their shop and the mechanic pulled up and played the same DIY video that I had watched the day before, where the guy says to be sure to save the green clip to use for the new pump. The one positive I'll give them is, it looks like they may have taken a wire brush/wheel to the ring and the hold-down prongs/pins because things look immaculate.

What's always tough with mechanics is, most are really nice and you hate to dump on them for making a mistake. You can have a very knowledgeable and capable tech who may be a little sloppy or careless when it comes to execution, but he/she gets things done, your car runs great and the pricing is fine. So, maybe you don't bother mentioning that new scratch on the fender, or that when you grabbed your steering wheel and drove away, you looked at your hand and it was smudged with oil. I can let some things slide. But when you have a nice guy who's semi-knowledgable and questionably capable when it comes to execution, and who just rushes into doing things and makes the same mistake again without even trying to adjust his technique...Well, I just can't accept having a tech like that touch my car again. At least I was able to save the broken tabs on those trim pieces and super glue them back on. In any case, tech #2 was a really nice guy, very friendly and accommodating, but there were some red flags, which is why I was so involved in this repair. I tried to make everything go as smoothly as possible. I even placed an opened, heavy duty trash bag next to the fuel pump hatch so he he could easily place the old pump and any gas-soaked rags into it.
 

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Discussion Starter #37 (Edited)
Something is now off with this new fuel pump. The gauge read 1/3 of a tank of fuel, and I topped it off. On the last $.30 worth of fuel, gurgling air sounds started happening within the fill tube, and after I removed the gas nozzle, that gurgling air sound continued for a good five seconds. Never had that happen in the 17 years I've owned MO. Then, once starting the car, the fuel gauge only read 3/4 full. I drove around trying to move the fuel around and possibly unstick something, but it did no good. Also tried shutting down and restarting MO several times to see if the needle would bounce up. No good. After about 30 minutes of driving, the needle finally went to F. I've noticed that from time to time my fuel level seems to change quickly from when I last saw it, and I thought maybe I was just remembering it wrong. I'm sure I'm not.

I know there's an electrical connector inside the fuel thank that goes from the new pump to a sensor on the other side of the tank (accessible under the other rear seat) and I don't know if that wiring is getting caught on the float, or if the float wire/arm is bent, or if the arm (or whatever it is) that the float fastens to/into on the fuel pump is getting stuck and then while driving frees itself and provides a reliable reading. It makes me wonder if there's something wrong with the pump, or something wrong with the gasket/O-ring that the puimp seats onto against the top of the gas tank. I haven't looked at the top of the fuel pump since installing that missing green clip, but I have noticed from time to time that I'm smelling a little gas when standing outside, but there's nothing leaking beneath the car. Possible it's just s trickle on the top of the tank that isn't showing a problem with that gasket/O-ring or whatever. Guess I'll check it out. The gurgling air sound that happened this morning has me concerned that something isn't quite right.

UPDATE: No visible or smellable signs of fuel on or around the top of the gas tank, fuel pump or lines. That's a relief. The other day I threw P0172 which relates to bank 1 running too rich, which might be why it smelled of fuel from time to time. Since I have no desire to remove that new fuel pump to see what's up, I guess I'll just live with another quirk. I also noticed a few days ago that I can't get I/M readiness, so I wouldn't be able to pass the State's annual inspection if I had to. Last year, replacing a heated O2 sensor provided a cure for the non-I/M readiness. Yesterday, I was able to get O2 and EVAP to clear, but not CAT. Today, I can't get any of those to clear. I know I've developed an oil leak around bank 1, and I'm guessing one of the plugs might be full of oil and causing some issues. I have been getting a few acceleration hiccups from time... Looks like I'll be tearing into MO over the next few days to replace some things. Instead of installing a new valve cover gasket on bank 1, I might just get a new valve cover that I believe comes with O-rings for the sparkplug well openings. From what I've seen online, you have to bore out the old rings in order to install new ones. Not worth the hassle.
 

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Regarding the gurgling sound when filling up, I would think that would point to a venting issue... Are you sure your EVAP system is healthy?
 

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From experience, getting the whole float/pump assembly back thru the top opening can be challenging to say the least. I would be worried that something was forced and maybe slightly bent, causing a float issue.

You should not be smelling any gas when the car is parked. Reading that it took two men to remove the retaining ring gives me concern about the reinstall. A square O-ring is usually between the tank and assembly, prone to partially rolling while fiddling with getting the lock ring into proper position. The float/pump assembly needs to be firmly pressed down on the gasket to prevent any movement.

If the gasket is not an issue, you should check the entire fuel recovery system for loose, broken or missing parts and hoses. Charcoal fuel recovery canister may be at the end of it's life, one of the main reasons there's usually a gas odor from older cars.

Good luck.

Have a good day.
 

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Discussion Starter #40 (Edited)
Regarding the gurgling sound when filling up, I would think that would point to a venting issue... Are you sure your EVAP system is healthy?
Yes, sounds like a venting issue. If you recall a previous post, the valve connector to the vapor canister somehow broke some years ago, and I epoxied it in place. I'll have to check again to be sure it's still connected. However, after 17 years, it's likely part or all of that system needs replacing. I'm just trying to get to 300,000 miles or March 2021, whichever comes first. I already know what new vehicle I'm getting... Just don't want to register/inspect it now, then have to pay to do it again in the Spring. Trying to get the timing right. :)
 
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