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Discussion Starter #1
Last Monday, the Service Engine Soon light came on. I went throught the suggested drill of checking the gas cap.
Tuesday, the light was still on so I trekked on up to the dealer to have it checked out.

I asked the service supervisor to check the SES, the full-up window rattle, and why I get locked out occaisionally.

That afternoon, I called back about an hour after he had promised to call me (and didn't). He said that the SES problem was in the computer. When they tried to reprogram it, the computer became unresponsive so they ordered a new computer.

The new one is on back order.

I called back on Wednesday for an update. He said that the computer should be in on Friday (day after Thanksgiving) and all should be ready to go on Monday (today). He said he'd call me Friday to give me an update.

Needless to say, he didn't call on Friday. I just now called him. He put me on hold for a while so he could check on the computer. He came back on the line and said the computer was still on back order with "no projected release date" and that he would call Nissan for an ETA and call me back in a few minutes with an update.

Yeah. I'm going to hold my breath and wait for his call.

I did some looking around during the past few days and surmised, by reading dire warnings in the SM and in TSBs that it is fairly simple to tank a computer by mishandling the setup of the Consult II.

Probably how mine got destroyed.
And why there is no ETA for the replacement.

Guess I'll be stranded a few more weeks.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Now for an update....

The service supervisor didn't call me back. So I went by the dealership to see what the story is.

The supervisor said that the original order for the part had been cancelled so they entered another order for the part with a vehicle status of VOR (Vehicle Off Road) and put the order in CSC status (something like Critical Service Customer). But still had no ETA for the part.

So I started my litany "I paid over $35K for a 2003 Murano SE AWD that mysteriously goes belly up IN YOUR SHOP. Last week you gave me an ETA of the end of the week and now you say indefinite. All I know is that I paid a lot of money for a vehicle that went disabled IN YOUR SHOP and all I have to show for it is payments. No transportation."

We went through the "There's nothing else I can do..." / "I paid over..." broken record a few times until the Service Manager showed up. And took me into his office.

And we went through the "There's nothing else I can do..." / "I paid over..." broken record a few more times.
Finally he said he'd love to give me a Murano to use until mine is ready "After all, you'd like to get apples for apples, right?" I agreed with him. Then he offered that insurance forbids letting me use a car off the lot. "If something happens, our insurance would have to pay, so they won't let us do that."

"So, if something happens to my car while in your possession, I'm responsible?"
"That's right."
"And if something happens to your car while in my possession, you (the dealership) are responsible?"
"That's right."
Sounds like a fair exchange to me!

Back to the broken record until he says "I can't make that kind of decision."
"So who can?"
"The owner."
"Let me talk to him. Now."

The Owner/GM comes out and we sit down for a few more rounds of Broken Record.

Longer story short:
I'm now driving a used and abused Sentra that reeks of "freshener". Smells like a case of Kool Aid blew up in it.
I have a copy of the Consult II snapshots during the failed attempt at reprogramming.
And it will be Dec 22, at the earliest, NOT when the part will be here, but when the dealership has an idea when the part will be shipped.

Just LOVELY!!!

As I said in another thread, it's a good thing I'm too old to ever buy another new vehicle after this one.
 

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I feel rally sorry for you. This is simply unbelievable!

Service Engine Soon light was on in my car as well. The dealer said it was torque converter problem and offered me a rental car. However, before I got it he came back full of apologies explaining that Nissan would not cover such a long period of rental (possibly 7 - 9 days) and car was safe to drive so I am still driving it. This Thursday they should know when the spare parts will arrive (that is if they know what spare they need. I doubt their expertise).

After hearing about your case I am more concern what is going to happen with mine........


Anyway, please keep us informed, I will do the same...........
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Here is a transcript of the strips they gave me. They didn't really give me tha actual strips. I got to look at them and they gave me a copy. What is strange is that the time on the ConsultII seems to jump around....

------ <FIRST STRIP> --------

SYSTEM ENGINE
DATE 01/01/1980 00:00:36
P/# 23710 - CA060

SELF-DIAG RESULTS

DTC RESULTS TIME
EVAP VERY SML LEAK 2
[P0456]




SYSTEM ENGINE
DATE 01/01/1980 00:00:49
P/# 23710 - CA060

Freeze Frame

DTC RESULTS

EVAP VERY SMALL LEAK
[P0456]


System Data

FUEL SYS-B1 Mode4
FUEL SYS-B2 Mode4
CAL/LD VALUE 52 %
COOLANT TEMP 190 F
L-FUEL TRM-B1 101 %
L-FUEL TRM-B2 100 %
S-FUEL TRM-B1 100 %
S-FUEL TRM-B2 101 %
ENGINE SPEED 1750 rpm
VEHICL SPEED 62 mph
B/FUEL SCHDL 8.1 msec
INT/A TEMP SE 64 F

------- <END OF FIRST STRIP> ------

------- <START OF SECOND (OR THIRD) STRIP> ---------------


ECU REPROGRAMMING


CANNOT START

NO COMMUNICATION WITH CPU1

CHECK DLC CONNECTOR
CONNECTION AND IGN KEY SW 'ON'
THEN TOUCH 'END' AND RETRY.




ECU REPROGRAMMING
#### ERROR INFORMATION ####

01/01/1980 01:28

ERROR CODE

COMM_ERR_STEP1
== VEHICLE INFORMATION ==

CALIBRATION ID


CVN

00000000

== CONSULT INFORMATION ==

APPLICATION
AER02C-1
VER7.10 02/26/03

RESIDENT
VER3.3.0 05/01/01


======== ERROR LOG =======

RESPONSE_ERR_STEP1



------- <END OF STRIP> -------

------- <START OF THIRD (?) STRIP> --------

ECU REPROGRAMMING

REPROGRAMMING UNEXPECTEDLY
TERMINATED




COMMUNICATION ERROR OF CPU1

REPROGRAMMING FAILED
THIS ERROR IS FATAL
THE ECM MAY NEED TO BE
REPLACED.




ECU REPROGRAMMING

#### ERROR INFORMATION ####

01/01/1980 00:40

ERROR CODE

CPU1_LOOP

== VEHICLE INFORMATION ==

CALIBRATION ID
1CA060

CVN
030C5C80


== CONSULT INFORMATION ==

APPLICATION

AER02C-1
VER7.10 02/26/03

RESIDENT
VER3.3.0 05/01/01

======= ERROR LOG =======

RESPONSE_ERR_STEP27_RC90
RESPONSE_ERR_STEP27_RC90
RESPONSE_ERR_STEP27_RC90
LOOP_ERR_STEP26


--------- <END OF STRIP> ------------


I think that what I labelled above as the "third" strip is actually the second strip. Especially since the TSB for reprogramming the ECM says to try to restart if reprogramming fails and my "second" strip seems to indicate a restart.

The "EVAP VERY SML LEAK", along with the ECM part # (23710 - CA060) indicates that this is an attempt to apply the TSB that calls for reprogramming the ECM.

I did notice two things:
The date and time for the Consult had not been set (01/01/1980)
The application being downloaded is the wrong version. Its date is 02/26/03. It should be dated after 03/12/03.
 

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It's a shame that there's such variability between dealerships regarding whether they provide a loaner car or not. Frankly, I don't buy this "insurance" BS. If they've got insurance, it ought to cover anyone who drives the car. I just dropped off a friend at the local Nissan dealership this afternoon after work. He was leaving his 04 Maxima for weatherstripping replacement, and the weatherstripping hadn't come in yet. He complained that it was inconvenient for him to keep bringing the car back to the dealership and that he couldn't afford to be without a car, so they provided him with a brand new car off the lot to use while his was being fixed. Now, mind you, he's bought several cars from this dealership and knows the owner/GM and most of the salespeople pretty well, but the insurance policy should apply to him just as much as it applies to anyone else.

I have little patience with the yahoos who stonewall you when you've got a complaint. I was at Best Buy the other day and overheard a woman complaining that her three-month-old computer's hard drive had stopped working, and she wanted them to exchange it. They refused, saying that she had to return the hard drive to the manufacturer (even though the manufacturer told her to return it to Best Buy). She left very angry and vowing to take her complaint higher in the Best Buy corporation, and the yahoo she was dealing with had the audacity to wish her a nice day. Grrrrrrrr!!! :3:

I'll give the yahoos one chance to please me, and then I take my complaint to the top. I don't usually mess with the "Customer Service" departments, as it's been my experience that they know nothing about satisfying customers. I go straight to the CEO and appropriate Vice President(s) of the corporation, even though I know that those folks most likely don't even see my letter. I did that with Delta Airlines when they refused to refund my ticket after the Sept. 11 tragedy because I missed their refund cut-off date by one day. Within a week, I had the Executive Secretary to the CEO calling me to tell me that a refund check was on the way. I also did that with SprintPCS when they had a major snafu with my cell phone account. In two weeks, I had a call from their Executive Services office offering me a complete resolution to my problem. I also ran into problems with Stamps.com and ended up complaining to the BBB and the California State Attorney General and got a complete resolution to my problem within a month. Thankfully, I don't have to go to such extremes very often, but I'm not afraid to do so if the situation calls for it. This situation that you're describing, UncaDanno, just might call for extreme measures. You might even want to contact the local media and talk to their consumer affairs reporter. I would imagine the dealership would want to do whatever they can to avoid bad publicity.

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Believe me, just before the GM arrived on the scene, I promised the dealership LOTS of publicity.

The local media, however, are more focused on how banning cars parked on lawns will stop al-Qaida and how the stingy consumers are ruining the national economy.

So for now I will have to be content with parading around in the stinkmobile with its new magnetic sign across the trunk. As long as I don't need to go more than 20 miles at a time, that is. After 20 miles, the POJ needs to take a breather.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yeah, that's what I figured, too: they had tried to apply the reprogramming from the TSB.

I think I may have stunned them a bit when they gave me the strips to look at. I pointed to the dates and pointed out that the Consult's date was the default and that the version they were trying to load was too old.
Went on to tell them that the TSB plainly states on the first page that ALL steps must be followed exactly or the ECM could be tanked. Then went on to say that step 3 of the TSB says to make sure the date and time on the Consult must be correct. Then mentioned that the date/time in the Consult was either not set or was lost because the battery was not fully charged AS PER THE TSB.

By then the service supervisor, the SM, the GM, and the parts manager were all gathered around, looking at the strips. I took the opportunity to wonder aloud that it would just make sense that, with the warning on the front page of the TSB, a prudent technician would make sure that an ECM is available before starting a procedure that carries a substantial risk of requiring a replacement ECM.

At that point they all looked at me and each other with a "we've been owned" look on their faces. That's when the GM got moving on getting me into the stinkmobile.

This afternoon the parts manager called and told me they were working with the "Regional Rep" (NOT the people in CA anymore) to see if they can get things expedited. I asked him if he had seen or heard the weather report. He said that they are calling for freezing rain and sleet Thursday morning. I said that I was not looking forward to the morning commute in that kind of weather in a marginal vehicle with nearly-bald tires. The wear indicators are at the surface on the fronts.

Pregnant pause. Then he said he was not aware of the condition of the vehicle and would forward the information because.....
And I stopped him and reminded him that everyone at Nissan asserts that they are powerless to do anything at all to rectify the situation that was caused by one of them at their facility. Nissan seems to be all-powerful, able to move mountains to get the sale and, after the sale is booked and the profit realized, is either completely helpless or refuses to make good on warranty work. Except, of course, at Nissan's convenience.

I realized today that IF the part ships Dec 22, it is being shipped from Japan. Containerized freight. That means a boat ride from Japan to Cally. Sit in customs for a while. Put on a train and shipped east. Then by truck to a distribution point. Then by truck again to the dealer.

Don't think the MO will be home for Christmas......
 

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UncaDano,

thanks for your update.........I have learned something again.........now I know how to deal with my case........I just need to take more time and patience........

It never ceased to amaze me how great this forum is.........

Thanks a lot to everyone.........;)
 

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Now I'm dreading that I have to take my Murano into the dealer tomorrow. I got the Service Engine Soon light today and I know it's not the gas cap (I fueled up last Wednesday and it's on tight)

Hopefully my dealer has their act together.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yee, and might I add, Haa!!

Got three calls late this morning. From one of the service guys that ferried the stinkmobile to my house, from the service manager, and from the GM.
The ECM arrived at the shop this morning. I went by this afternoon to get the other keys re-registered and to drop off said stinkmobile.

The GM met me at the door and in a moment of candor told me that none of the calls he had made over the past couple of days "had anything to do with this." Said that the last word he had from Nissan was still Dec 22 ship date from Japan. Go figure.

A little flashback to something said day before yesterday that I didn't relate here because I didn't want to get my hopes up too high: The service guy that helped ferry the stinkmobile said to me in the driveway something like "I don't want to get hopes up or muddy the waters or anything, but a couple of times in the past when I changed an order to VOR, CSC and VIP status, even though Nissan said the part would be shipped in a few weeks, I got the part a couple of days later."
And here it is a couple of days later and the MO is tucked away in the garage. Just in time for our anniversary ice storm.

The MO didn't perform as well at first as when I dropped it off, but it's learning.

The service manager said they had ordered a new window track to try to fix the full-up window rattle and would call me when it came in. Told him what I have seen here and at other sites regarding the window rattle. He said he was surprised because Nissan had never mentioned any difficulty in fixing the rattle. Go figure.

Had a little sit-down with the SM and GM and made a suggestion, referring back to my number of years in software development, engine repair, and farming. I said all this ugliness and turmoil could have been prevented by just a little forethought and planning.
I suggested that, any time a tech is about to embark on a TSB or any other procedure that has a warning on the first page that the procedure may end up requiring the replacement of a part, do the diagnosis first then make absolutely sure that a backup part is available or can be in hand in a day or two.
Then, most important of all, inform the customer BEFORE going ahead with the procedure.

Would give the customer the impression that they really did give a rat's patootie and, if the part would take a few days (weeks) to arrive, everyone would be on board to the risks from the get-go.
A little proaction goes a long, long way. At first they thought I was talking just about the ECM reprogramming but, using the check of the HomeLink transmitter as an example, I showed how this could be used for anything that may require a part that may or may not take a while to obtain.

The conversation either lit a bulb for them.... or they were both real good actors.

Now I can fill out those surveys (after cooling off for a day or so) and get some communication going upstream.

Oh yeah. Seems that the stinkmobile may have been a mistake. The parts manager had relayed what I told him about it to the SM and GM. They both asked me what was wrong with the red loaner. I told them the loaner was white. The GM was oblivious. The SM made with the "I am so owned" look again. I handed the key over to a service tech. He looked at the tag and said, "Hey! This is...." and the SM cut him off and said "Take it on around back." Hmmmm...
 

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Well, I went to the dealer today and spoke briefly with the a service consultant (what ever the heck that is). I couldn't leave the car with them right then and their because I had to head off to school and get my two finals projects turned in. He said that as long as the car drove normal (I have noticed no difference in the car since the light came on) that it would be fine to drive it until I bring it in on Saturday.

I'm soooooooo happy I bought the extended service plan from Nissan. Free loaner if it's in the shop.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Sarge,

Mine was running fine, too. Just further indication that they will need to apply the TSB that they did to mine.

BE SURE to ask them when you go back to make sure a replacement ECM is readily available if yours goes belly up during the reprogramming.


I bought the extended warranty, too. Take a good look at yours. Mine just allows reimbursement for a rental @ $35 a day.
Based on the "book" time estimate for the job. In my case, 2 days' rental.

Check with them on this, too, when you go back.
 

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UncaDanno said:
Sarge,

Mine was running fine, too. Just further indication that they will need to apply the TSB that they did to mine.

BE SURE to ask them when you go back to make sure a replacement ECM is readily available if yours goes belly up during the reprogramming.


I bought the extended warranty, too. Take a good look at yours. Mine just allows reimbursement for a rental @ $35 a day.
Based on the "book" time estimate for the job. In my case, 2 days' rental.

Check with them on this, too, when you go back.
Thanks, I'll do all that.
 

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Is there a TSB for the ECM?? If so where can I look at it?

Just had my MO in the shop yesterday for the service engine light. Was the same exact code-Evap Small Leak. They told me the same thing about the gas cap.

If there is a TSB for the ECU, how can I check to see if it is up to date without taking it back to the shop?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The EVAP SML LEAK TSB is NTB02115. The title of the TSB is extremely misleading so the service people probably won't recognize it right off.

The only way, I think, to check the version of the ECU is with a Consult.

There is another TSB, NTB00006, I think, that tells them how to reprogram an ECM (note how they interchange ECU and ECM) where the program version should be dated after 3/12/03. They guys that were trying to reprogram mine were using a download dated 2/26/03 (too old).
 

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I hate dredging up old threads, but this just amazes me. I think that in the same position, I would have told him that he needs to phone and find out what insurance comapny the Infiniti dealer uses, because THEY will loan cars, even for a simple oil change. Insurance company my big white butt! Second, since their master service tech neglected to follow the instructions on the TSB and it was THEIR fault that the the computer puked, they had better find a Murano on their lot, swap the computer in to my car and then THEIR car can sit in outside in the back behind the service garage until the new part arrives from Japan. "And i have 2 lawyers in the contacts on my cell phone that would jump at an oppertunity like this". :p
 

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Silly question but what is the EVAP TSB for? The EVAP SML LEAK TSB is NTB02115? What are the issues/symptoms for the TSB and what does it correct?
 
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