[tigger]

I had the MO in for a for a visit early this year after getting an SES light. Since I couldn't get in to the dealer the next day and when I called they said not to worry about it("check the gas cap") I ended up driving around for about 10 days with the light on. The MO developed a peculiar 'growl' during this period when throttle was applied and when I called the dealer back they asked about the octane level in the gas I used, 91-93 as always. Got the MO in for an oil change and to have the SES light looked at. Got it back with no light and no growl.

Fast forward 3 months. The MO had another oil change at a quicky place(can't stand leaving a car for a day at the dealer for an over-priced oil change. They told me the oil was black and low(after 3500 miles). Changed it and off I go. Did some research and there aren't many who feel that oil changes at 3000 miles are necessary and mostly propaganda to get you into a dealer, make money for the oil companies, etc. Most modern oils are engineered for longevity as well as more demanding loads and I don't tow, race, or do baja in the MO.

Fast forward 2 months(about 2000miles). SES light is on, engine is growling again. Called the dealer and no response to voice mail, call back in a few days, schedule an appointment for the next week('no hurry. Check the gas cap...'). Change the oil early the next week in my other car and then check the MO for the heck of it. It's off the dipstick...! Added oil and the SES light and the growling go away. Top off the oil and take it in to the dealer and mention the lack of oil and no oil warning light.

Service states the oil warning light will come on with only a quart or so in the engine and damage is already being done...!? ie. it's a critical warning and you better fix it now(kind of like the ordeal with my alternator, by the time the lights show your 10 miles from dead).

I just read another post here about a guy who had a similar issue and the dealer said he had increased oil consumption because of an after-market air cleaner. I have nothing of the sort and the air filter is changed every two oil changes. As indicated above I do nothing out of the ordinary and drive mostly highway miles. How can I be going through that much oil in that little time and why the heck doesn't a 'low oil' warning light exist? The dealers are already jaded about the SES lights and consider them mostly a generic warning of some vague problem.

I've now resigned to checking the oil every other week, something I don't even do in my VW with 130k on it(my MO has 28k). I've never owned a new car that I checked the oil more than maybe once a month at best, most have gone oil change to oil change with nary a loss(my VW tosses maybe a 1/2 quart in 4000 miles).

Currently the dealer has marked the dipstick and sealed the cap and I'll bring it by in 1500 miles for a check, earlier if I get the noise or light back. This should be interesting. I'll skip the quick lube place next time just in case but it seems the dealer change had the same issue. Anyone else burning the oil this fast?

 

[Eric L.]

This is a good post. It would be interesting to know where the oil has gone. If you are leaking, its possible you may not notice it if it only leaks under pressure (i.e. while you are on the road). In such a case, the dealer should add a UV dye to your engine oil and check for leaks after you've driven it a few hundred miles. If you are burning it, it should be detectable in an exhaust gas composition test.

 

[Gonzo]

I'm not sure how an air filter can effect oil comsumption but that is just me. Regarding the low oil light If its off the dipstick you could add oil 1 qt at a time to see when it reads on the dip stick to determine just how low it was.

Before I brought it to the dealer I would check it over few days as you said and monitor when it drops. Be sure that it is filled to the correct level after an oil change. Perhaps it is not filled correctly in the first place.

 

[Halo]

Ack. Scary stuff.

I take it you're not spewing blue smoke out the exhaust. A leak would be my guess but given that it's been changed at the dealer you would think they'd know to change the washer and not cross-thread the drain bolt.

I check the oil at each fill up in my cars but on the MO it's an act of futility because there is always oil splashed way up the dipstick so I find it unreadable (beyond the fact that there is, in fact, enough oil in the pan to have splashed way up on the dipstick )

 

[Tyler_Canada]

I'm not sure how an air filter can effect oil comsumption but that is just me.

Aftermarket parts are a great scapegoat.

 

[mgthe3]

My first oil change the mechanic said it is a ***** readin the dipstick after starting the engine due to the fact that the stick goes right through an area that the drain back occurs through. He said the only way to check it is to do it in the morning before you crank it or in the afternoon before you drive home.
I haven't checked mine once.
It'sa lease. They break it, they fix it.
I just put gas innit. Period.
I feel for the folks who purchased theirs.
I could never afford to do that. Ya'll have a way more disposable income than I.
I may lease another new after this one, this is the most fun car with the least worries of any car I have ever had.....well the suburban was without trouble....but it was a pig.
This one is beautiful...athletic, and it is, like jaak says, my hot wheels car.

 

[Gonzo]

IMHO a lease is more costly than ownership. Nothing personal to you mgthe3.

 

[jaak]

IMHO a lease is more costly than ownership. Nothing personal to you mgthe3.

Totally off topic, but I've tried to figure this out many times, but not tried hard enough...

With a Lease, it's my understanding that you're only paying the sales taxes on the part you're using (although I've never checked) and I've wondered what the difference in cost is, as you have to finance the whole thing when you purchase it and that ties up more money. (Assume no money down either way, so a lease vs. a loan.)

My current ride is a lease, but I've been thinking maybe the next one will be a buy. If I had to keep it ten years, I'd buy, without a doubt. However, I'm not permitted to drive a vehicle thats older than 4 years to get my car allowance.

Now I'm pondering the oil checking. I park in a garage where it's almost impossible to get to the dipstick. So I have to start it to move it out to check. Hmmmm.... I wonder if I can push it back. Or maybe it's better to carry a rag or paper towels to check it when I've been out to the mall or something. (I can see my wife wondering what the heck I'm doing!)

 

[mgthe3]

and to add to the off topic part.....sorry

I put down $1500 and pay around $400 a month for the lease and a gold+ warranty. Had I purchased it with the same down payment, my monthly outlay would be close to double what I pay now, for the same duration (4 years or 60k). I can't afford that. I will come way under 60k, so there should be no extra crap at the end. Yes, to lease another, I would have to cough up another $1500, but, I wouldn't be lookin at a $6k transmission in the next 2 to 3 years--I KNOW I couldn't afford that. For cryin out loud, I could get a used A to B car for that much.
I have always been the guy that preached never to buy a new car because of the reamage you get in the first two years of ownership. I rarely keep a car past 100k. I bought a dually crew cab once that had 115k on it. I sold it at 160k for the same price I bought it for with no major maintenance incurred--cept for 6 tires.
But the Murano sold me upon my first glimpse. The salesman quoted me a payment amount and I went I got up and said, "I can't afford this car, see ya later". Then the lease quote came out, I sat back down.
and the rest is history.....

 

[Tyler_Canada]

IMHO a lease is more costly than ownership.

It would be for me, that's for sure. Given I drive about 28,000 miles per year.

 

[senza]

Lease vs. buy?....advantages of leasing: 1) you save/defer taxes eg. a $40,000 CAN MO..buy 7%GST/7%PST= $5,600 in taxes upfront ...a typical monthly lease payment $560 plus $79 in taxes
2) income tax benefits...easier to write off a monthly lease payment re business/self employment expenses than to calculate a depreciating asset.. 3)leasing company takes the risk on the vehicle value at lease end.. 4) the biggest benefit, as per mgthe3's comments, a monthly lease payment is considerably lower than a financing payment...

Advantages of buying 1) vehicle ownership on a cost per mile basis, particularly if you put on a lot of miles, is cheaper....

 

[Stoker]

I am one of the guys that does lease cars as I do not work by myself or can write off the leasing costs. I typically own my cars for 12-15 years and eithr sell them for $1500 or drive them to the junk yard.

To me checking my oil level is one of the things that we are still allowed to check in the engine. I usually check my oil level twice between oil changes and I monitor my oil consumption in my book I keep for oil changes and repairs. I put 4.4 lts of Mobil 1 in and get 4.4 Lts out( includes new oil filter at every change).

The only time I ever had excessive oil consumption was in my 73 Celica and I was getting 100-150 miles per quart of oil. The only indication was a large circle of carbon around my exhaust pipe. It turned out that my oil scrapper rings had collaspe, due to over heating. My compression rings were still good as the cylinder comperssion was still at spec. As I was on holidays when this happen and put 1500 Miles on the car before I got home. With the oil rings out of service I was literally pumping the oil out into the exhaust pipe. When I pulled the engine you would not belive how clean it was after 175000 miles.

However this is getting long, I just want to recommend that you check your oil as oftewn I you see fit but try and do it once or twice between oil changes, it will save you money in the end.:29: :29:

 

[9495]

I think you guys are all missing another HUGE point of ownership. When you're done with the car, you can SELL it and get back some of your investment. If you lease, you don't get this option. You own nothing, so you have no equity. You're really just renting the vehicle.

Of course, you have to keep it long enough or else you don't come out on the positive side of things, and you have to consider the fact that you're buying equity in something that's losing value (unlike mortgage payments). But that's never been a problem for me. I keep my cars for quite a while.

 

[zebelkhan]

The only time I ever had excessive oil consumption was in my 73 Celica...

Good old 18RC engine, one of the best ever made, replaced by 20R, even better yet...

I never check oil in my cars because I have been spoiled by my previous cars never using oil. But it sounds like I should start to check it on the MO. It is funny that I have been around cars almost all my life, both personally and professionally, and now I have grown too lazy to even check my oil.....or may be I am just getting old....:3:

 

[hfelknor]

Wow.

No measurable usage here after 5,000 miles.


Homer

 

[Tyler_Canada]

I've never checked mine, but I think I will just before the next oil change (3750 mile frequency). I hope it's not burning/losing any.

 

[Eric L.]

I think you guys are all missing another HUGE point of ownership. When you're done with the car, you can SELL it and get back some of your investment. If you lease, you don't get this option. You own nothing, so you have no equity. You're really just renting the vehicle.

Of course, you have to keep it long enough or else you don't come out on the positive side of things, and you have to consider the fact that you're buying equity in something that's losing value (unlike mortgage payments). But that's never been a problem for me. I keep my cars for quite a while.

You pretty much nailed the main point of lease vs. buy. Ownership means you have equity in whatever you paid for. Leasing (or renting) means you get nothing at the end.

I have always been a "always buy" person myself, but I can see how individuals with lots of disposable income would lease if they want a new car every few years. I do not think however, that a lease is ever a substitute for the idea that its "cheaper" to drive a nicer car. It might be true in the short term, but you'll lose out in the long term.

 

[MKevin3]

I buy and never lease and I usually have a very short term loan if I have one at all. Since I have something to trade it that is already paid off it means a big down payment thus not having a $800 a month loan with nothing down.

Second I never talk monthly payments with the dealer. Sure there are a lot of payments I could afford but that is not telling me what I paid for the vehicle.

Finally, and maybe I just read this wrong, but you present one of the reasons I don't want to buy an off lease vehicle. Put in gas and drive it, if it breaks it is their fault. If I own something, even if renting which is what a lease happens to be, I take care of it. I am the one that could be stranded if it breaks.

The Sienna minivan and other vehicles from Toyota that used the same engine got a pretty bad sludge rap at one time. After some investigation part of the blame, and not all of it for sure, rested on those who leased it for 2-3 years and NEVER changed the oil. I believe this is one reason various companies have started free oil changes otherwise they are screwed with program cars that have been engine abused.

 

[mgthe3]

I buy cars every 3-4 years. Most of the time they are used. This is my first new car in 14 years. I have taken care of all of my cars. This one is taken care of by the dealer, on time. Actually, before time.
Let's do a little math here for the equity folks....
$750 a month for 60 months is $45000. So you pay $45000 for a 31k vehicle and you get how much back for it in 6 years?
I think I will pay $19200 for 4 years.
Let's say it cost you $27k total after your trade in. What's that, about $650 a month? That's 39k for your 31k vehicle.
Let's say you trade it in in 4 years and you get 12k for it. That's 31.2k you've paid and you still owe around 12k for it.
Now if you are the lucky one that hits 90k and loose your CVT, that is 6k on top of what you have paid into it.
I would have to say it takes a HEAP of expendable income to purchase and drive this car for 6 years. One hell of a lot more than 19.2k.

 

[Eric L.]

I think paying $45k over 5 years for a $31k vehicle amounts to a 22% interest rate loan. Thats completely unrealistic and if a buyer can only qualify for a 22 percent loan, they shouldn't be buying a $30k+ car!

If you take a more realistic interest rate of, say, 7%, a 60 month loan would have monthly payments of $615. Granted over four years, a lease is still "cheaper" short term, but over 5+ years, its cheaper to own.

Of course the absolute cheapest is if you buy it outright.