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SHIFT_FASTER
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Last weekend I finally finished my sub install.

I ran a 4 gauge power wire under the driver side door sill.
I installed a PAC LOC and ran 4 shielded RCAs under the passenger side door sill (to keep the signals isolated from the power).

That was all easy enough. Then I ran into problems when I tried to mount my amp. I tried to mount it to the back of the passenger side rear seat. The seat back is CARDBOARD! This really disappointed me, as the amp is too large (2 feet long) to mount anywhere else. I have a full size spare, so I can't pull the amps hidden on the bottom of the tire cover trick like generator did. So I mounted it on top of the sub enclosure, which I did not want to do. I was hoping I could use the cargo cover to hide everything, but now the amp is higher than the cover.

I ran a ground wire through the front driver side corner of the spare tire cover. There was room for the 4 gauge wire near the hinge, barely.
I unhooked the stock sub and removed it.

When I tested things out, I had an interesting surprise: not only did the bass sound a lot better, the mids and highs were clearer too!
It seems that either:
A) the stock sub was overworking the amp a bit, and now that there is more power for the door speakers they sound better.
OR
B) the stock sub sounded so crappy that it was covering the sound from the other speakers.

Either way, I'm definately happy. And I may be replacing my rear view mirror mount at some point. :D

Next I'll be installing 2 more amps and new door speakers.

The sub is a JL Audio 10W7 mounted in a JL Audio H.O. Wedge slot ported enclosure. The amp is a Zapco Reference 750.

Special thanks to Dookie for the help with figuring out how to feed the power wire through the firewall.

I'll put up pics later tonight (that's why I waited so long to post this).
 

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SHIFT_FASTER
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Discussion Starter #2
This is the left have of the amp. The crossover is set to about 120Hz, which sounds like a good transition from the door speakers.
 

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SHIFT_FASTER
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Discussion Starter #3
This is the right half of the amp. The 4 gauge power and ground wire is a bit much, but I'll be adding a further 300 watts of equipment later, so I wanted to be prepared.
 

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SHIFT_FASTER
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This is the whole setup. I would like to go to a sealed box, as I like the sound better, and it would be about half the size.
 

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Good Job :)

okay now dammit, now I have ta get my sub installed!
hehe

My sub amp is bolted to the side of my band pass cabinet. It looks a LOT like generator's cept the drivers sit behind a 3/8ths sheet of plexi and it has four-3 inch ports across the top. Course, my amp is only good for around 250 watts per channel, but that's good enuf to make the rear view blur at half volume.

Yo Kris, soon if ya hear a boom boom an see a silver Mo, it's me!
Can't wait to hear Astral Projection on it!

For those who want some fabulous driving music: www.tranceaddict.com
go to the live section and find Astral Projection live at Tel Aviv, excellent track!
 

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Hey Tyler,
Great job. I'm still tryin to work out how I'm gonna install my sub. I get an idea, then I see someone elses and my idea changes. Ya know how it is.
Anyway, I'm glad you said what you did about the speakers sounding better after the sub was disconnected.
I thought the Florida sun finally got to me !!:1pat:
I was trying out a set up and unplugged the Bose sub and WOW. The door speakers sounded better. I guess 280 watts divided 7 ways is just too weak !!:2:
 

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SHIFT_FASTER
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Discussion Starter #7
I think the Bose sub is too boomy. It seems to cover the sound from the front speakers. While tweaking the settings on my sub, I accidentally turned it way down, and was really surprised at the amount of bass coming from the front speakers.
 

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Tyler,
You're right !! The Bose is biased toward the front, no doubt.
And thats the best word to describe it. BOOMY.
I finally decided on my layout...I'll post a pic or 2 when it's done!
Keep it real !!
 

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Tyler,

I know it's been a while since you posted, but I read on how you were dissatisfied with where your amp is mounted. Did you think about putting it under the rear seat? Mine are mounted on the back of the rear seats, and when I was troubleshooting an EVAP leak SES code, I pulled up the rear seats to access the top of the fuel tank. I haven't measured under there, but it looks like there is plenty of room for amp(s). The only question would be the height between the bottom of the rear seat and that floor. I would measure, but the wife has the MO (of course) and can't. What do you think?
 

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SHIFT_FASTER
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Discussion Starter #10
That would be a great place to put the amp. The larger one is the one I had problems placing. It's fairly small thickness wise. It should have a problem with cooling because it has a fan.

Thanks for the heads-up, I'll look into that.
 

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Sub Installation

I am looking at installing my own amp/sub. What device did you use to bypass the stock amp? You mentioned a Pac Loc. Where is the amp located? Can you give me details?
 

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I think I'll jump in here...

Dookie said:
...Did you think about putting it under the rear seat? Mine are mounted on the back of the rear seats...
I looked at it breifly and noticed that when you fold the rear seats down, the bottom cushion moves forward, and DOWN to allow for the clearance of the seats to fold flat. There is lots of room under there when the seats are up, but if you fold the seats down, you will either tear the material on the bottom of the seats from rubbing against the metal of the amp(s), and, more importantly, all airflow will be cut out and your amps will overheat. Even amps with internal cooling fans need open airspace around them -- otherwise the hot air has nowhere to go and you basically turn your cooling fan into a convection oven -- recirculating hotter and hotter air. Overheating amps are thier own problem, but if you have extremely hot metal making direct contact with foam seat material, you have a fire hazard. THAT would surely ruin your day.

For those who were mentioning the dynamics of the Bose system... the best way I can describe it is that it sounds more like it was engineered to be a computer speaker system, not a car audio system, and certainly not "premium". I am highly disappointed in the Bose system. I understand they had limits to work around. As such, you get a 6" or 6.5" driver in a specially tuned enclosure to make it sound like a bigger speaker -- think bandpass, but slightly different. The crossover points in the system are ALL wrong. The sub does a respectable job given what it is... however it's crossover is set way too high, and yes, it has a "boomy" characteristic to it, which is quitely likely a side effect of the previously mentioned design. The front door speakers handle about 80% of the actual music, which is very poorly designed. The crossovers on the front speakers are way too LOW, as it's robbing quite a bit of the musical capacity out of those speakers when they have to respond to 100Hz or 80Hz, wherever the crossover lies. The rear door speakers are pathetic, I won't even get into details. One big problem is the weak-ass amp. They claim 225W. Puh-leeze. I think we're lucky to get 40-50W RMS without significant distortion out of that little thing. The sub is a big problem there -- it sucks a lot of the good usable power out of the amp and what's left for the door speakers is crap.

If you ask me (and this is just my opinion of course... others may certainly feel differently) the system should have been designed much differently. A "premium" system should have at least a nominal amount of acoustic engineering put into it. The front door speakers should be high-pass crossed at 150Hz minimum, 200Hz would be even better. take the bass OUT of those speakers. Not only will the speaker perform better, but then the damn panels won't rattle so much. (I am also not thrilled with the paper-thin door panels on a $35,000 vehicle, but that's a gripe for another day). The dash tweeters sound to me as though they're crossed over a little too low right now -- with proper frequency response from the mid drivers in the doors the tweeters could be more properly tuned. I suspect Bose did it the way they did to compensate for the lacking high-mid frequencies coming out of the door drivers. The rear door panels could be used for a standard full-range driver, but high-pass it at 120Hz or so, so they don't get overworked. That would make for a nice mid-bass with good fill. A dedicated mid-bass driver could also be used, say, bandpassed at 120-500Hz, but that likely wouldn't make it into a "stock" audio system as the rear-seat passengers wouldn't get a full sound. The sub should (aside from being designed and implemented more efficiently) be low-passed at no higher than 120Hz... 120Hz is good for a 8" sub (which is what a lot of premium stock audio system utilize). Most important in all of this is amplification -- there's no substitute for good, clean power. The sub should be self-amplified, or there should be a dedicated sub amp, so as not to steal all the juice from the other speakers.

All in all, I can definately say that the Mo's Bose system sounds exactly like a Bose system -- which is not a compliment. It carries many of the Bose characteristics that I have disliked through many years of listening to, and evaluating, thier products.

I realize this is an extremely long post... I'll make another post later as a follow-up to this, and to my other thread about pretty much the same stuff....
 
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