[ekka]

Hi All

Has anyone here tried or sourced a performance chip for their Murano.

If the motor is de-tuned as they say I am surprised there has been no aftermarket attention to to this.

I understand their are concerns about the CVT ability to handle the extra power and torque but if we are talking to 10%-15% surely that should be in it's limits.

I was thinking a great mod would an aftermarket cold-air intake with the ECU dyno tuned for that engine mod.

There is a company in OZ who specialises in PowerChip with a good reputation. Was thinking of submitting an inquiry to them

Here is their link

http://www.powerchipgroup.com/choices.asp?entry=powerchipgroup.com

 

[zebelkhan]

Most Chip mods change the A/F mixture ratio, making it richer which gives you better performance in most cases. However, fuel economy goes down the drain. In a Murano, A/F is controlled by a computer which gets its info via a bunch of sensors. The computer will eventually compensate for the rich mixture and will return the ratio to what it knows as normal.

 

[Tyler_Canada]

There is a prototype for the '03 Murano that can be purchased from TechnoSquare. It is not available to the public as there are questions about the CVT longevity, so they didn't follow through and release it for multiple years, etc.

The features are:
- Rev limit increased to 7100 from 6600
- Speed limiter removed
- Ignition timing map adjusted to take advantage of higher octane
- Fuel map adjusted. Nissans run overly rich above 5000 RPM to reduce power so people don't bump the rev limiter
- Drive by wire adjustment. Nissans with the electronic throttle have the throttle closed up to 20% as you near the rev limit so people don't bump the rev limiter.
- Feedback system reduced. Nissans have a feedback system that will notice airflow improvements such as intakes and exhausts, and reduce timing to keep the horsepower the same as stock. This has been all but disabled.

I'm not sure if the electronic throttle closes in the Murano, as the CVT behaviour should make it almost impossible to bump the rev limiter, but the fuel map adjustment to lean out the top end will actually improve mileage slightly under WOT conditions. The fuel map has been tweaked to give a more consistent 12.5:1 ratio, whereas the stock system varies quite a bit and near redline gets as bad as 10.5:1.

 

[ekka]

There is a prototype for the '03 Murano that can be purchased from TechnoSquare. It is not available to the public as there are questions about the CVT longevity, so they didn't follow through and release it for multiple years, etc.

Thanks for the responses, now I know a bit more about how the MO does A/F and this is why I like this forum so much

Chipppng is a very popular mod on Oz spec vehicles as they are normally detuned from the factory and PowerChip is a local company that does export to the U.S. and Europe.

Will try and contact them to obtain their comments, have not seen any real hard evidence other then some stats from a US web site but I imagine Nissan would be improving the build quality and reliability of the CVT from the initial '03 release so maybe the after market will get more adventurous.

Here's hoping the CVT technology continues to improve with manufacturers sorting out the ability to handle additional load and give the driver the ability to remap some of the settings to suit your driving style. (ie quicker acceleration of the mark) as it is an absolute joy to drive compared to a conventional automatic.

 

[Gadget]

There is a prototype for the '03 Murano that can be purchased from TechnoSquare. It is not available to the public as there are questions about the CVT longevity, so they didn't follow through and release it for multiple years, etc.

The features are:
- Rev limit increased to 7100 from 6600
- Speed limiter removed
- Ignition timing map adjusted to take advantage of higher octane
- Fuel map adjusted. Nissans run overly rich above 5000 RPM to reduce power so people don't bump the rev limiter
- Drive by wire adjustment. Nissans with the electronic throttle have the throttle closed up to 20% as you near the rev limit so people don't bump the rev limiter.
- Feedback system reduced. Nissans have a feedback system that will notice airflow improvements such as intakes and exhausts, and reduce timing to keep the horsepower the same as stock. This has been all but disabled.

I'm not sure if the electronic throttle closes in the Murano, as the CVT behaviour should make it almost impossible to bump the rev limiter, but the fuel map adjustment to lean out the top end will actually improve mileage slightly under WOT conditions. The fuel map has been tweaked to give a more consistent 12.5:1 ratio, whereas the stock system varies quite a bit and near redline gets as bad as 10.5:1.

The fuel dumping under high load is not to prevent reaching the rev limiter. It is done to keep the catalytic converter temps down to extend their service life.

It is true that the overly rich mixture kills power, but it does increase longevity in a stock vehicle.

I own a performance business geared toward Toyota trucks and we have a full line of engine management and fuel delivery upgrades for when these engines are converted to forced induction. We are also coming out with a full line of turbo kits.

For N/A vehicles we sell a box that allows you to remap the signal from the MAF sensor and allows you to control the mixture in OPEN LOOP operation. We find when the engines are leaned down from 10.5:1 AFR to around 12.0 AFR we consistantly see 10-20 HP gain on an otherwise stock engine. Now when you couple this with devices that increase flow like cat deletion, performance exhaust and a smartly designed intake system the results can be much more.

Now I have not done this on my wife's Murano, she won't let me... But the concept is the same.

I have not tested compatability with Nissan products, but the one we have for the Toyotas sells for between $200-250 depending on version and it has the highest map resolution of any end user tunable calibration units on the market. The beuty of this approach is that it is end user tunable by YOU unlike some of the otehr stuff on the market. This way you can always retune for best power every time you install a new mod instead of having to pay someone else to do it for you and pay $800-1000 everytime.

We have also had a break through in CLOSED LOOP mixture control. We have found a way to adjust the fuel mixture in closed loop and that product should be ready for production very soon, but again I have no idea on compatability with Nissan products.

One thing I would caution you on with folks that want to sell you a ECU reflash program. Up until recently Asian ECUs were not reflashable. Only in the last 4 years or so has this been possible. In most cases you are getting a cookie cutter program that is not specific to YOUR vehicle. A custom tune on YOUR vehicle will always be best. The other problem with ECU reflashes is that anytime your vehicle goes to the dealer for ANY kind of service they may load an updated calibration without you knowing about it and this will wipe out your expensive aftermarket reflash program.

If anyone buys an ECU reflash be certain that you get what you are paying for. Do before and after dyno tests and check your WOT fuel mix before and after. There are a lot of companies out there that simply take your money and put a sticker on the box and DO NOTHING for you. These are called sticker tuners and they are EVERYWHERE.

Gadget

 

[GripperDon]

Nice Post Gadget

Lots of info. What is your personal opinion about CVT holding up and say the chip you would but on your wife Mo (when you get the go ahead)

G

 

[Gadget]

Re: Nice Post Gadget

Lots of info. What is your personal opinion about CVT holding up and say the chip you would but on your wife Mo (when you get the go ahead)

G

As far as the CVT goes, so far so good. Time will tell. I can tell you this, that if I was the one regularly driving it, I am sure I could break it...

Gadget

 

[Tyler_Canada]

The fuel dumping under high load is not to prevent reaching the rev limiter. It is done to keep the catalytic converter temps down to extend their service life.

It is true that the overly rich mixture kills power, but it does increase longevity in a stock vehicle.

I own a performance business geared toward Toyota trucks and we have a full line of engine management and fuel delivery upgrades for when these engines are converted to forced induction. We are also coming out with a full line of turbo kits.

For N/A vehicles we sell a box that allows you to remap the signal from the MAF sensor and allows you to control the mixture in OPEN LOOP operation. We find when the engines are leaned down from 10.5:1 AFR to around 12.0 AFR we consistantly see 10-20 HP gain on an otherwise stock engine. Now when you couple this with devices that increase flow like cat deletion, performance exhaust and a smartly designed intake system the results can be much more.

Now I have not done this on my wife's Murano, she won't let me... But the concept is the same.

I have not tested compatability with Nissan products, but the one we have for the Toyotas sells for between $200-250 depending on version and it has the highest map resolution of any end user tunable calibration units on the market. The beuty of this approach is that it is end user tunable by YOU unlike some of the otehr stuff on the market. This way you can always retune for best power every time you install a new mod instead of having to pay someone else to do it for you and pay $800-1000 everytime.

We have also had a break through in CLOSED LOOP mixture control. We have found a way to adjust the fuel mixture in closed loop and that product should be ready for production very soon, but again I have no idea on compatability with Nissan products.

One thing I would caution you on with folks that want to sell you a ECU reflash program. Up until recently Asian ECUs were not reflas

 

[Tyler_Canada]

One thing I would caution you on with folks that want to sell you a ECU reflash program. Up until recently Asian ECUs were not reflashable. Only in the last 4 years or so has this been possible. In most cases you are getting a cookie cutter program that is not specific to YOUR vehicle. A custom tune on YOUR vehicle will always be best. The other problem with ECU reflashes is that anytime your vehicle goes to the dealer for ANY kind of service they may load an updated calibration without you knowing about it and this will wipe out your expensive aftermarket reflash program.

If anyone buys an ECU reflash be certain that you get what you are paying for. Do before and after dyno tests and check your WOT fuel mix before and after. There are a lot of companies out there that simply take your money and put a sticker on the box and DO NOTHING for you. These are called sticker tuners and they are EVERYWHERE.

Gadget

The particular company I'm talking about is one of the top ECU modifiers for Nissans. Go to any Nissan performance board or website, and they are likely to talk about TechnoSquare.

 

[Gadget]

They are a Techtom dealer. I had two Techtom modified ECUs in my Toyotas. They are now sitting in a box in the basement.

The guy that was doing the Toyota stuff just could not get things right with his cookie cutter programs. He could not do programs for different size injectors. The one thing he could do was raise the rev and vehicle speed limits.

In the end nothing beats a custom tune done on your vehicle with your modifications. I have taken to identical vehicles same year, same mods, everything. Custom tuned one and it ran great. Then I put that program in the second vehicle and it did not run well at all. Then I custom tuned the second one and it had the same performance as the first.

Then I carefully looked over the maps and found that they were suprisingly different. Then I had an idea. I relaoded the program from the first vehicle into the second and transferred the MAF sensor and air/fuel ratio sensor from the first to the second and found it ran wonderfully.

So, it became clear that this was due to sensor error and I started checking into it. I had lunch with a high end calibration engineer and got him to tell me that the error rate specification on the MAF sensors was between 4-6% and it was 4% on the air/fuel ratio sensors. Man, this is HUGE!!!

Now this clearly shows why cookie cutter programs will never perform as they should given this huge variation from sensors that are absolutely critical to the end result.

The way Toyota and I am sure most all the manufacturers gets away with this is that they run the stock calibration so pig rich on the top end sensor error does not matter much and might even be a good thing, but when you start leaning things down to gain that last bit of performance possible sensor error rate is critical if you are using a cookie cutter program. However if you custom tune the vehicle you can tune to the error rate and it will work perfectly, well until you need to drop in a new MAF sensor or something...

Anyway, Techtom products are very good but will never be better then the program that gets burned into the chip. Now if they custom tune the program on your car then it will be the best it can be for your vehicle.

Gadget

 

[Tyler_Canada]

Yes they are a Techtom dealer, but they make they're own products as well. Their own products are what I'm talking about, I've heard nothing of Techtom in the "field."

And of course, custom will always be better but... does anyone have anything at all for the Murano other than what I mentioned? I don't think so, although I'd be happy to hear that I'm wrong.

 

[ekka]

For N/A vehicles we sell a box that allows you to remap the signal from the MAF sensor and allows you to control the mixture in OPEN LOOP operation. We find when the engines are leaned down from 10.5:1 AFR to around 12.0 AFR we consistantly see 10-20 HP gain on an otherwise stock engine.
Gadget

Hi Gadget

This is all good info and thanks for the responses. So a few questions

1) How much for the Box
2) How do remap it
3) What equipment do you need
4) Could you take the box along with the instructions to a Performance Tuning operation with a Dyno and get them to do it
5) If you did do this what instructions would you suggest I give to the dealer when he does his usual 10K service

Go on do the mod on your wifes MO, we would love to see the before and after, your knowledge would contribute a lot

 

[grfg8r]

What's the holdup here? Send your wife on a cruise w/ the kids/girlfriends/mother, grab her MO and go to it ! :8:

 

[Gadget]

I have no idea at all about compatability. The Toyotas use hot wire type MAFs with a signal range of 0-5 volts accending. Thinking back my old Maxima, great car, 300,000+ miles on it, had a frequency based MAF sensor. If the Murano is the same, this unit will not be compatable.

Anyway, we have two versions depending on if it has been converted to forced induction or not. One is $200 and the other is $250. The tuning proceedure is outlined here: www.GadgetOnline.com/U-Tune.pdf. Just pay attension to the fuel control sections since the device is the fuel control half of the fuel/timing calibrator.

Not trying to sell anything here. My business is focused on Toyotas and I really doubt we have the energy or time to branch out into Nissans, but you never know...

Gadget

 

[Tyler_Canada]

That's a pretty sweet idea. I checked the factory service manual, and the Murano uses a voltage based MAF, so it might work.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

A few comments/questions:

1. If Nissan allows a 3500lbs tow capacity which I believe is limited by the unibody then Nissan must believe that the CVT can take more load than a stock vehicle not hauling anything. Personally, an additional 3500lbs payload will produce much more strain on the CVT than a 10% increase(if even that) in hp from a chip.

2. Even with a power chip upgrade, what % of time will the driver be pushing the car beyond what the stock capabilities are? I would say 10% if that. So even with a power mod, 90% of the time, the CVT will be under normal stress conditions.

3. Has anyone thought about trying the FX 35 ECU on the Murano? It's the same engine but somehow produces 35 more hp.

 

[Eric L.]

Seems to me that any ECU modification that keeps the car in the "tunable" open loop mode will also destroy fuel mileage. Open loop is responsible for the awful fuel economy the MO gets on short trips, and I certainly wouldn't trade 10% increase in power (unlikely) with a drop in fuel mileage sure to exceed 10% (very likely).

 

[Tyler_Canada]

I don't think any of the ECU mods stay in open loop mode.

 

[Eric L.]

I don't think any of the ECU mods stay in open loop mode.

According to the PDF link from the Toyota tuner in this thread, most of the power unleashed from ECU programming comes from open loop mode. The document also clearly says that attempting to tune in closed loop mode is difficult because the ECU will always default to the factory 14.7:1 AF ratio.

 

[Gadget]

According to the PDF link from the Toyota tuner in this thread, most of the power unleashed from ECU programming comes from open loop mode. The document also clearly says that attempting to tune in closed loop mode is difficult because the ECU will always default to the factory 14.7:1 AF ratio.

For the most part, the U-Tune manual speaks about installing an aftermarket forced induction system on a vehicle that was not intended for such a thing.

When TRD marketed their supercharger for the Tacoma/4Runner they did nothing to suppliment the fuel system so it could keep up with extra air being jammed in by the supercharger. This caused a serious high RPM lean out condition.

What I did is put together a kit that includes a fuel pump, larger injectors, cooler performance spark plugs, a cooler thermostat and the best end user tunable calibration unit. What we are doing to correcting the lean condtion that occurs over 4000 RPM at full throttle. Yes we are injecting more fuel in that situation, but believe it or not, fuel economy INCREASES. Most folks report loosing 1 MPG when the TRD supercharger is installed. Once our kit is installed and properly tuned, you get that 1 MPG back and ususally a few more. My 4Runner would never get over 19 MPG stock no matter how I drove it. My best MPG was 24 with the supercharger, my properly tuned fuel kit and an exhuast system. So, performance tuning does not always carry a MPG penalty.

When our MAF calibration unit is used on an stock vehicle we lean out what is normally way overly rich condition at full throttle. Modern vehicle usually run about 10.0:1 AFR at full throttle and RPM. When we lean these out a little bit like down to 12 or even 13:1 AFR power comes up and we are using less fuel. So the side benifit is again better overall fuel economy.

Now about this closed loop thing. We have had a break through there also. We now have the ability to intercept and calibrate the signal from the new style air/fuel ratio (O2) sensors and can now precisely set the fuel mixture to anything we want in cloose loop mode. This is very handy for engines converted to forced induction that still must run the stock ECU for emmissions testing.

However, like I said before, I have no clue if any of this stuff works on Nissans, but the concept is the same. I did get to drive the Murano the other day, AFTER I washed it and changed the oil...

Gadget