I recently had my vehicle detailed and a paint sealant applied...The MO looks great outside, but when I got it home in the garage I could see verticle marks on the hood....I called the guy that did it and he said it was probably from the clay....He said he would come over to my house and buff the hood with a realy fine cleaner....He did that tonight and now the verticle marks from the claying are gone, but I can see the swirl marks....He didn't have all his equipment with him, so he is going to pick it up next week....I am just concerned that the swirl marks on the hood will be permanant since he used a power buffer....Can anybody give me any ideas of what I could use or recommend to the guy who detailed it to get the swirl marks out....I know how soft the paint is on the MO....Any help would be greatly appreciated....
Swirll Marks on hood
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mmmmmmmmm
I wonder if it is just the wax or what ever he applied that is swirled.
Lots of detailers use buffers.....that is good for the masses...but I think when you get down to perfection, only a hand rubbed finish will appear perfect. If someone approached my Mo with a buffer I would haveta man slap'em. :14:
I bet all he has to do is strip the whatever he put on it and reapply, by hand. I have never seen a buffer that didn't leave a swirl, at least the non orbital ones. If the bonnet spins, it will leave swirls. I have an orbital I have used for nasty finishes with polishing compound, it will sit in the cabinet gathering dust while I have the Mo.
I wonder if it is just the wax or what ever he applied that is swirled.
Lots of detailers use buffers.....that is good for the masses...but I think when you get down to perfection, only a hand rubbed finish will appear perfect. If someone approached my Mo with a buffer I would haveta man slap'em. :14:
I bet all he has to do is strip the whatever he put on it and reapply, by hand. I have never seen a buffer that didn't leave a swirl, at least the non orbital ones. If the bonnet spins, it will leave swirls. I have an orbital I have used for nasty finishes with polishing compound, it will sit in the cabinet gathering dust while I have the Mo.
The MO did look great, but under certain lighting conditions I could see marks from the claying...He used an orbital buffer to get those marks out, but now the damn swirl marks are there....He did try a variety of comounds by hand to remove the swirl marks to no avail......I don't know what to do....
Two thoughts.
The guy is not very good. A real pro can do that while not leaving swirls or clay marks.
If he is using a circular buffer, do not let him near the car again.
I own, and have used my Porter Cable orbital buffer on the MO. But mostly I do it by hand.
Therefore another guy, if he has a good rep (Ask your dealer who they use or if there is a custom car place in town.....) can fix it.
Z5 does not remove swirls. It hides them.
Homer
The guy is not very good. A real pro can do that while not leaving swirls or clay marks.
If he is using a circular buffer, do not let him near the car again.
I own, and have used my Porter Cable orbital buffer on the MO. But mostly I do it by hand.
Therefore another guy, if he has a good rep (Ask your dealer who they use or if there is a custom car place in town.....) can fix it.
Z5 does not remove swirls. It hides them.
Homer
Joined
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741 Posts
A good and clean clay bar does not affect the finish. If it does, it should be discarded. I have used Zaino's clay bars quite often and they never scratched the finish, dark or light paint.
Z-5 will remove any light swirls guaranteed. It has been designed to do just that. I just finished applying a Z-2 coat just now and wow, what a finish. Showroom condition. More coats only make the clearcoat look deeper and deeper.
Z-5 will remove any light swirls guaranteed. It has been designed to do just that. I just finished applying a Z-2 coat just now and wow, what a finish. Showroom condition. More coats only make the clearcoat look deeper and deeper.
Thanks for your feedback...I will see what he can do...He is a professional detailer....went to a pretty extensive training class...My entire car looked showroom condition with the expecption of the hood. I guess I will order some ZAINO products and take it into my own hands....It just really pisses me off...I just hope that it was not buffed to hard and is now permantly damaged....
Maybe washing it with Dawn will remove the stuff he applied and it is not the clear coat that got swirled. And yes, it would bother me badly as well. Try the zaino to level it like Sim suggested. If it bothered me enough I may have asked him to have another clear coat put back on it.
But, here's hoping that is just the stuff he put on it that is swirled, not the clear coat.
I do have to say that I can not understand why he would use a buffer. A friend of mine does details at a local expensive hand car wash. He saw the Mo after I had hand waxed it with the carnuba I use and was very impressed. He said, "Don't EVEN take that thing to a wash...at least for the first few years." He had told me before on a different vehicle that was kinda sad, that a buffer and ultra fine compound would be needed to bring back the paint. For our Mo's--I can't see a buffer gettin within a mile of it. It is not a large vehicle, a very careful and total wax doesn't take an hour. Buffers (yes Homer I have an orbital as well) are mainly used for speed, not quality when it comes to waxing. But, there is absolutely no way to change sides of a bonnet, unless you have a few dozen handy---so the residue gets rubbed around and around instead of removed. All of us hand finishers know one very important key to an excellent finish is to change sides to what you are buffing with---be it micro fiber or cotton pads like I use, or a chamois or terry cloth, you MUST change to new material frequently--impossible with a buffer.
Sorry about my diatribe, I am very anal about my wax job.
:2:
But, here's hoping that is just the stuff he put on it that is swirled, not the clear coat.
I do have to say that I can not understand why he would use a buffer. A friend of mine does details at a local expensive hand car wash. He saw the Mo after I had hand waxed it with the carnuba I use and was very impressed. He said, "Don't EVEN take that thing to a wash...at least for the first few years." He had told me before on a different vehicle that was kinda sad, that a buffer and ultra fine compound would be needed to bring back the paint. For our Mo's--I can't see a buffer gettin within a mile of it. It is not a large vehicle, a very careful and total wax doesn't take an hour. Buffers (yes Homer I have an orbital as well) are mainly used for speed, not quality when it comes to waxing. But, there is absolutely no way to change sides of a bonnet, unless you have a few dozen handy---so the residue gets rubbed around and around instead of removed. All of us hand finishers know one very important key to an excellent finish is to change sides to what you are buffing with---be it micro fiber or cotton pads like I use, or a chamois or terry cloth, you MUST change to new material frequently--impossible with a buffer.
Sorry about my diatribe, I am very anal about my wax job.
:2:
Everything has it's place. That's what you need to realize. For imperfection/scratch/swirl mark/water spot damage, hand polishing will not yield the quality of a Port Cable random orbit buffer. Making generalization that "a buffer shouldn't be used" is ingorant. I personally own 5 different pads for different levels of abrasiveness as well as 3 different polished with different levels of abrasiveness. My vehicles have NO swirls. I use fluorescent lighting when detailing as it is the best way to see swirls or marring. Here's my bi-annual to annual detailing regimen:
1. Wash with Dawn using a 100% cotton chenille mitt. I use a soap bucket and a separate rinse bucket to "clean-off" the mitt after before I put it in the wash water again.
2. Pat each panel with a waffle-weave microfiber(MF) towel and completely dry with a Fieldcrest Charisma towel with the edges cut off and resewn with 100% cotton thread.
3. Clay with either Zaino or Clay Magic using a weak mixture of Zaino car wash and water as the lubricant. Rinse and repeat drying procedure.
4. Tape off any black plastic adjacent to any painted areas with 14-day painters' tape. Remove headlights/taillights/mudflaps/license plates.
5. Polish with my PC with a yellow Lake Country foam pad removing residue with a small MF towel after completing each 2-sq.ft. section.
6. Repeat step 1. & 2.
The following steps are done on a per-panel basis until the vehicle is complete, i.e. all steps on hood, then all steps on roof, then all steps on bumper, etc.
7a. Spray on and buff Zaino gloss enhancer.
7b. Apply Zaino Z5 with a Zaino cotton applicator.
8. Buff entire vehicle using several MF towels.
9. Repeat steps 7. & 8. I usually do 2 coats of Z5 w/ Zfx and 1 coat of Z2 w/ Zfx followed by 1 coat of Z2 w/out Zfx.
10. On the next day (vehicle garaged in meantime), Repeat steps 7. & 8. for 3 coats of Z2 w/ Zfx and 1 w/out.
11. Apply 303 Protectant to all tires, black trim and inner wheel wells.
12. Final buff with Zaino Gloss Enhancer.
13. Clean window with Stoner's Invisible glass.
No swirls.
1. Wash with Dawn using a 100% cotton chenille mitt. I use a soap bucket and a separate rinse bucket to "clean-off" the mitt after before I put it in the wash water again.
2. Pat each panel with a waffle-weave microfiber(MF) towel and completely dry with a Fieldcrest Charisma towel with the edges cut off and resewn with 100% cotton thread.
3. Clay with either Zaino or Clay Magic using a weak mixture of Zaino car wash and water as the lubricant. Rinse and repeat drying procedure.
4. Tape off any black plastic adjacent to any painted areas with 14-day painters' tape. Remove headlights/taillights/mudflaps/license plates.
5. Polish with my PC with a yellow Lake Country foam pad removing residue with a small MF towel after completing each 2-sq.ft. section.
6. Repeat step 1. & 2.
The following steps are done on a per-panel basis until the vehicle is complete, i.e. all steps on hood, then all steps on roof, then all steps on bumper, etc.
7a. Spray on and buff Zaino gloss enhancer.
7b. Apply Zaino Z5 with a Zaino cotton applicator.
8. Buff entire vehicle using several MF towels.
9. Repeat steps 7. & 8. I usually do 2 coats of Z5 w/ Zfx and 1 coat of Z2 w/ Zfx followed by 1 coat of Z2 w/out Zfx.
10. On the next day (vehicle garaged in meantime), Repeat steps 7. & 8. for 3 coats of Z2 w/ Zfx and 1 w/out.
11. Apply 303 Protectant to all tires, black trim and inner wheel wells.
12. Final buff with Zaino Gloss Enhancer.
13. Clean window with Stoner's Invisible glass.
No swirls.
Joined
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4,077 Posts
I'm like the next MO owner and I love a clean MO. I wash it weekly sometimes more. Clay it once a year and wax ~6 months.... but you have got to be kidding me about those steps above....
You have loads of time on your hands. In a way I'm a bit jealous.
Buff on dudes!!! :18:
You have loads of time on your hands. In a way I'm a bit jealous.
Buff on dudes!!! :18:
I do a very similar recipe to Edward. Except I use Sonus pads over Lake County, and don't remove any parts from the car in the process. My other car is black and no swirls even under fluorescent lighting. A random orbital buffer, if used correctly, with the right pads and compounds does a fine job of removing swirls.
Z5 definitely does not remove swirls, it fills in the microscopic scratches that produce the swirls, much the same way as other products marketed for the same reason. Personally, I'd rather get rid of the swirls by polishing than fill them in. Also, Z5 doesn't give nearly the shine as Z2 +/- ZFX so I just cut out the Z5 and go right to Z2. Products like Z2, btw, really make swirls noticeable.
Z5 definitely does not remove swirls, it fills in the microscopic scratches that produce the swirls, much the same way as other products marketed for the same reason. Personally, I'd rather get rid of the swirls by polishing than fill them in. Also, Z5 doesn't give nearly the shine as Z2 +/- ZFX so I just cut out the Z5 and go right to Z2. Products like Z2, btw, really make swirls noticeable.
My process typically takes a weekend. I start the first wash on a Friday evening. I do the clay, polish, second wash and Zaino application on Saturday. I then finish up on Sunday. I'll typically do the interior detailing on the following weekend. That only takes about a day. BTW, I don't remove all lights - only the ones that are easy. On the Mo, I remove none; but on the Lightning I can remove all lights, including fogs, taking out just 6 screws. I also apply a coat of Z2 after every wash for the next few washes. I typically wash every two weeks, staggering each of my vehicles. I agree, the Z5 doesn't do anything to remove swirls; it just hides them. But I feel it adds more depth than Z2 alone.
thanks for calling me ignorant eddy
that was nice
:twak:
I have POLISHED with COMPOUNDS many different vehicles with no swirls myself with my orbital polisher. I saw no reason for a detailer to be POLISHING a new Mo. Hence the swirls. Maybe it was using only one grade of abrasive? (the wrong grade?)
I guess he should have called you over to teach him how to do it.
that was nice
:twak:
I have POLISHED with COMPOUNDS many different vehicles with no swirls myself with my orbital polisher. I saw no reason for a detailer to be POLISHING a new Mo. Hence the swirls. Maybe it was using only one grade of abrasive? (the wrong grade?)
I guess he should have called you over to teach him how to do it.
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