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In regards to sound stage, I don't think the stock tweeter locations lend themselves to being all that great. I replaced the speakers in the Murano with ones that are way better than the ones in my Jeep, yet the sound stage was much better in my Jeep. The difference? The Murano has the tweeters mounted on the dash, pointed towards a curved window that reflects a lot of the sound towards the center of the vehicle. In my Jeep, the tweeters were place near the top of the front doors, near the A pillar.
 
Tyler-Canada

Could you not tip the tweeter up on the insides a bit to cause the sound reflection to be less reflected toward the middle. It would only take about 10 degrees to have a 20 degree shift and that might do it.. GRIP :D
 
At the first glance, it seems that a 10 degree shift in speaker direction should result in a 10 degree shift of reflected sound...
 
I think he means 10 degrees angle on each tweeter would give 20 degrees more separation. I don't know how well this would work, but my tweeters are angleable (sp?) so I just might try it.

I think I'll try to angle them more toward the back of the vehicle too so there is less reflection off the windshield.
 
Angle of incidence equals angle of reflection

Imagine that the sound from the tweeter hits the window at an angle of 45 degrees now. ie. it come in at 45 degrees away from "normal" .

Normal is the line that is perpendicular to the windows surface. If it came in at "normal" it would be bouncing back in exactly the direction it came from.

So, in my example the sound beam is reflected at the same angle from normal and goes back off the window at an angle equal to it's incoming angle or 45 degrees from normal. If you change that by tilting the tweeter 10 degrees the angle it is coming in at is reduced by ten degrees to 35 degrees incidence and is there fore reflected back at 35 degrees from normal.

In the first case the angle between the incoming and reflect wave is a total of 90 degrees and in the second 70 degrees. The rub is that the tweeter is not physically laterally moved to cause this decrease of 10 degrees incidence angle , but only tilted by 10 degree.

Therefor the effective movement of the reflected angle is a total of 20 degrees. Doing this to both sides will change the intersecting point of the reflected waves by a large number of degrees the actual number depending upon the distance between the tweeers ans the initial angle of intersection. But a 20 degree value is reasonable.

See very quick sketch below (made while I typed this). The sketch shows you the idea "not the detailed solution". (But you can make one your self that is accurate) It does serve to illustrate how much you can move the sound stage back toward (or away from you ) by a little tilt of the tweeters, give it a try. place some shims under the tweeter to move it's angle to the window around. If it works great, it not, not much lost. These are are not laser beams but point sources (well reasonably small sources) and may not work anywhere near like beams consisting of one ray. Best test is to use a single tone so to help you ears focuse and a high pitch that the tweeter will output. The windshield is the verticle line on the right and the two tweeters are locate one at top and one at bottom. By words say the skectck shows the relative movement from the window about right but it is shifted to one side due to quickness of skectch and angles not being equal. Be carefull on your test of this can happen in real.

Got to run to a appointment be back later. GRIP :D
 

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Just did the tweeter Cap mod and can definitely tell a difference, especially once you hear a womens voice (mens do not really go up high enough to tell). Should get me by until I feel like upgrading to aftermarket.
 
Gripper

When an incident source wave changes angle from 45 deg to normal to 35 deg to normal, the angle of the reflected wave will change from 45 deg to normal to 35 deg to normal. I don't see a 20 deg difference.

However, the perceived source will move to a greater extent than warranted by the change of angle alone, since the point of incidence will move on the reflective plane.
 
Re: Gripper

Spin_Echo said:
When an incident source wave changes angle from 45 deg to normal to 35 deg to normal, the angle of the reflected wave will change from 45 deg to normal to 35 deg to normal. I don't see a 20 deg difference.
It's 20 degrees because you're doing it twice.
 
You are correct about the movement of the primary along the relfective plane (as shown)

Regarding the angles, I actually am trying. Don't look at the angles I drew quickly, (1 minute bottom angle one drawn wrong both show reflection of bottom tweer at the same angle should be like the top one, as I said I had a meeting to go to) but please look at the principle. The total angle changes for each tweeter changes from 90 degrees, as used in the example (45 in and 45 out) to 70 degrees (35 in and 35 out) a change of 20 degrees. Not being smart ass, but I just can't explain it better or differently, sorry, I tried. As I said, try it, if you don't like it, OK nobody is drilling holes or doing anything permanent. GRIP :D Still smiling hope you are too! I really did try and explain. Maybe it is in our preciption of what the angles we are talking about are. Iif you think it's cra*** ignore it, please!

If it has some good in it, take that portion and use it if you want or not. :D
 
NatasG said:
Just did the tweeter Cap mod and can definitely tell a difference, especially once you hear a womens voice (mens do not really go up high enough to tell). Should get me by until I feel like upgrading to aftermarket.
Can you characterize the difference you hear? Are you glad you did the mod? Is there anything that sounds worse after having done it?

Thanks for any information you can provide. I suppose it's cheap and easy enough to remove should I not like it that I should probably just do it, but just looking for a little extra confirmation that it's a worthwhile mod. :)
 
Maybe this is a better way to look at it!

a little 10 degree change could move the perceived center of the sound stage (as far as the tweeters are concerned) by a factor of 2. Again this is to give the perception not an exact number as the window is compound curved, the tweeters don't have a single sound "Ray" etc. etc. When I get time I WILL TRY IT TOO! and we can compare perceptions. As the Big guy in OZ said "just ignore that man behind the "Green Curtain" So ignore that stuff bleeding thru, Only piece of quadrille paper i could grab, has something on the other side. .GRIP :D
 

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jds said:

Can you characterize the difference you hear? Are you glad you did the mod? Is there anything that sounds worse after having done it?

Thanks for any information you can provide. I suppose it's cheap and easy enough to remove should I not like it that I should probably just do it, but just looking for a little extra confirmation that it's a worthwhile mod. :)
Well, I only listened for a little bit at lunchtime and have not even took the MO on the road yet. Did a pretty bad job soldering but still sounds OK. Will update you more tomorrow...
 
The Zelmosan $3.00 Fix

I stopped by Radio Shack last night and spent $2.53 on the 47uf capacitors. Pulled the tweeters. Did my second solder job ever (first with Cold Heat). Put 'em back and fired up the Bose.

Wow! Noticeable difference. Highs are much, much better. I can't tell you how many songs I've heard with the Bose system that just sounded Flat! This fix definitely lets you hear the tweeters. I was able to even it out by setting the fade one notch to the rear. But, I'm going to experiment with it. I did kinda like the more up front sound.

I definitely recommend this cheap and easy fix! I had been thinking of getting Infinity Kappas. But they're about $240 for the front 4 and $150 for the back doors. I may still replace the speakers, but it will now be much further down the road.

Thank you Zelmosan!

Here are some pics. (I hope they don't vanish this time.)

Factory Bose Tweeter with 4.7uf capacitor


New 47uf capacitor soldered in place.


Tweeter back in the dash.
 
Go MO Dale

Thanks for the Pictures and the comments. Very nice of you. I have had the Caps for 2 weeks and not yet time to do it. GRIP :D
 
Seeing the picture triggered some old knowledge.

Note that the cap has NP written on it.

That means Non Polarized.
That is the correct type of electrolytic capacitor for AC crossovers.

So When you buy the 47 UF add ons, make sure you specify Non Polarized (or NP).

Polarized Electrolytics (Marked + and -) are used in DC circuits where you want to filter out any AC component. They are very much the more popular of the two types..


Homer
 
Homer

Absolutely great point. And very very important. Thanks for the reminder. GRIP :D
 
hfelknor said:
So When you buy the 47 UF add ons, make sure you specify Non Polarized (or NP).

Homer
Hmmm. The package from Radio Shack says "35WVDC maximum." Nothing about polarization is mentioned.

Does this mean I'll die in a fire?! ;)
 
Great Job.....MO Dale!!!!

Your installation pixs shows that you have made the mod correctly. I wouldn't worry about the voltage rating on the capacitor. (You have more of a chance of a MO fire by smoking a cigarette in the MO and then trying to find the factory ashtray!!!)

The original mod I made has been working just fine for several weeks now. I, too, now enjoy the "hidden" Bose sound that cannot be achieved without the tweeter mod. You can either spend the couple of bucks or go all out and spend a wad. The choice is yours.

Great job!!!!........please enjoy!!!!!

Rock on.........
 
Well, I figured it was okay since there were no flames when I turned it on. :D

Zelmosan, thank you for double-checking my work. I did nearly connect it backward when I started to solder the first one. Yikes! Glad I caught that.

It's a great mod and one that I'm really enjoying! I feel like I should kneel and bow! ;) While I never was especially impressed by the system, I really noticed the flatness of the Bose after getting Sirius a couple months ago. Before that I mostly listed to NPR talk. Now, I can hardly wait for my daily commute so I can give it a real workout.

Definitely, the best thing about this mod is the cost and ease of installation. If it turns out someone ends up not liking it, just get out the wire cutters and snip away. Who hasn't thrown three bucks away on something in their life. Personally, when I had my '85 Jetta, I went through at least three sets of after-market speakers before finding something I really enjoyed. Good thing I kept that car for nine years.

Thanks again, Zelmosan!
 
GripperDon said:
Thanks for the Pictures and the comments. Very nice of you. I have had the Caps for 2 weeks and not yet time to do it. GRIP :D
GRIP! I can't believe I got this mod done before you. But, I couldn't wait any longer. It's so easy, and unlike myself, I bet somebody that actually knows how to solder can even do it without removing the speakers. ;)
 
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