Nissan Murano Forum banner

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Nissan Enthusiast
Joined
·
197 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
DVD on NAV or "NAVBox" now $149.99

Most of you have seen my integration of XBox to the Nav screen. If you have not then look here:

MOVIE

Anyway, some of you have questions and I like to think I have the answers so allow me to explain the workings of the Xbox mod. My Xbox mod is less expensive than other solutions because of the way I process the image to be displayed on the nav screen. Perhaps the follwoing will make it a little easier to understand. The hierarchy of video signals is like this:

a) RGBSync (being the highest quality possible; this is the signal at the red, green and blue guns of a television screen and has a seperate sync signal)

b)High Definition Component Level

c) S-Video

d) Component video (what you see on the xbox)

e) Radio Frequency or RF transmission

As you move lower down the chain more signals that were once seperate become combined. The first had 4 seperate signals, the second has 3, the next 2 and so on.

Your nav screen uses RGBSync. It cannot accept what normally comes out of the xbox which is composite video and in some cases S-Video and High Def Video

Other folks get around this by splitting the composite signal into the necessary RGBS signal. This circuit is very complex and costly. This is why the AV units others are using cost 3-5 hundred dollars. Also the video quality is not optimal after its been un-combined.

My circuit is inexpensive because I make use of a very powerful video processor already available in the x-box. I configure the x-box to deliver a signal that I need for the NAV. I never have to deconstruct the signal, I let the x-box handle those expensive tasks. As a bonus I get the best possible signal. My interface focuses on processing of the SYNC signal, voltage regualtion, digital switching and some other minor things which is why it is less expensive.

So then one might ask "Can I send in a external signal like a VCR?" No. There are no extra aux inputs. The xbox itself does not have the facilities for accepting outside signals. I have no way of taking a camcorder signal, for example, and patching it into the X-box video processor. For me this is fine. The Xbox does everything I want. Plays DVD's, Games, MP3 library etc. This may not be what you are looking for though so keep that in mind.

How is audio processed? Audio is output thru standard RCA jacks and can be sent to the Bose Head Unit via RF Modulator or PAC interface (isolation transformers are highly recommended if using the PAC interface).

Can I add more monitors? Sure. While the NAV screen uses RGB the typical headrest monitor uses composite video. I supply one composite video output. (There goes that powerful little Xbox video processor again, doing multiple video formats at once). In mutli headrest monitor setups it is advisable to use a distribution amp.

How do I power the Xbox? I use a 300 watt peak/ 150 watt average inverter. I keep the inverter in the armrest area and my inverter does not get warm even being enclosed.

Does the inverter make noise? That is a fact of life folks. Inverters do not make true sine wave outputs. The output is very choppy and you MAY see some artifacts of that on the screen. Different inverters will yeild different results. Even folks who use the AVelectronics controller see these artifacts. I solved my noise problems with some clever gounding. Even those inverters that claim FULL SINE wave output may deliver high levels of RF interference in many cases.

Do I need to mod my Xbox to do the things that you do? Not really I could setup an Xbox to function in its native mode but you will not be able to do cool things with MP3's etc.

Can I install it myself? Sure. You only need to find a 12 volt power source and then cut and splice four wires that run to the nav screen. Another wire conected to a switch toggles the Xbox or NAV display.

Can I display the NAV map on the headrest monitors. Well yes you can but not with this interface. That would require a circuit more sophisticated and expensive, which I probably could develop but I dont really see a demand for it.

I will answer additional questions on this thread. Please ask questions here. If you PM me then others who may have had the same question never get a chance to see the answer.

Thanx
Dan
 

·
Major Geek
Joined
·
638 Posts
Excellent write-up, Dan. Question, do you think the Xbox video processing is done entirely in hardware, or does the OS pick up some of the work (remember softmodems?) I ask for the sake of anyone who might be interested in running Linux on their Xbox, and whether or not your circuit will work.

If you don't go inside the Xbox with your kit, perhaps I'll finally get around to dual-booting mine to Linux and bring it with me next Tuesday to see how well it works with your kit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
Wow! That is great information. I am so bummed that I don't have NAV. I would be willing to spend alot of $ for it, but not the $7000 that I have been suggested that it would be.
 

·
Major Geek
Joined
·
638 Posts
$2,200 in the US. The $7,000 comes from our neighbors to the North where, in Canada, you couldn't split out the Nav from other options.

In my case, I wanted the Premium pkg and the Bose audio, and my dealer had several cars to choose from.. with or without the Premium pkg, and with or without the Nav. There wasn't a single thing missing from my wishlist on the one I bought, all the way down to the color combination. Perfect match to the one I built at the Nissan website, and it was three miles away!
 

·
NO-MO-SNOW
Joined
·
902 Posts
EasternPA said:
$2,200 in the US. The $7,000 comes from our neighbors to the North where, in Canada, you couldn't split out the Nav from other options.

In my case, I wanted the Premium pkg and the Bose audio, and my dealer had several cars to choose from.. with or without the Premium pkg, and with or without the Nav. There wasn't a single thing missing from my wishlist on the one I bought, all the way down to the color combination. Perfect match to the one I built at the Nissan website, and it was three miles away!
Same exact thing happened to me...wanted sunlight copper loaded(incl. NAV), but not the SE model. I liked the rims on the SL better and wanted to steer clear of a rough suspension...they had one 10 miles away. Nothing else within 50 miles had the NAV and what I wanted. I definitely got what I wanted.:2:
 

·
Nissan Enthusiast
Joined
·
197 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Eastern PA:

It is all hardware controlled. It should work with Linux unless Linux is making weird calls/commands to the video chip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
Hey check out this install of an xbox that a stereo shop near my house did on an acura. I think i'll go there and see if they could do something similar for the Mo. I like the way that they made the game cd/dvd loading tray come out of the dash near the stereo seperate from the rest of the xbox. I would rather just hide away the rest of the xbox than have it showing like they did though.

Kinda sucks this is a slide show so the photo of the install doesnt stay on the screen long enough for you to get a real good look at everything. Thats why I think I am gonna actually go there.

http://www.juniorscarstereo.com/jcs_virtualtour1.htm
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
4,664 Posts
Grabbed it...
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
Thanks Jaak...you da man!!! lol Me----> :6: :29: <----Jaak
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
4,664 Posts
Yeah, I really do need a life...;)

I did a screen capture when it was running and cropped it.

This morning, It's back to putting my MO together. Finally changing my car kit for the cell phone and also changing my Sat harness to the fully wired one, in preparation for trying two devices at once.:12: If the gods are smiling, I hope to have both Sat and the Pac Audio adapter running in harmony.

I took out the USA-SPEC harness and smiled, as it unlocked the sat mystery in the first place. I should frame it, it's famous...:D
 

·
Nissan Enthusiast
Joined
·
197 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
OFFICIAL PRICE CHANGE

I have offially dropped the price of the NavBox device to $149.00. I am using different sources for hardware. In the spirit of being competetive I am still happy to see this device is still goint to cost less than half of any other device out there now.

I also will offer reduced rates on xbox modifications and fully support all xboxes up to the latest version 1.6.

The no-nag is now $49.00 for Murano owners. Other cars are still slightly higher due to wiring and code differences.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
Ohhh man generator if I only had nav in my Mo I would buy a Nav Box from you in second, I definitely would have got the nav if I only new everything I know now. :banghead: I am interested in getting a modded xbox though. I want to get one with a bunch of games already loaded and stuff like the emulators of all the old game systems. Do you have access to any of that stuff? If so how much? Can you provide the xbox or do i need to send one to you? what other stuff can you load on it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Shajan, from what I understand about Generator's post his homebrew navbox cannot do what you are asking. Altho it may work if it were modified to convert the VGA signal to RGBsync. If you re-read what Generator wrote in the first post he actually explains why his current design will only work with an XBox. Following will be choice quotes from the first post:

Quote 1: Explains what the Nav screen requires:
"Your nav screen uses RGBSync. It cannot accept what normally comes out of the xbox which is composite video and in some cases S-Video and High Def Video"

Quote 2: How the XBox can work:
"My circuit is inexpensive because I make use of a very powerful video processor already available in the x-box. I configure the x-box to deliver a signal that I need for the NAV."
**(i.e. the xbox vproc can do RGBsync natively)

A standard PC graphics adapter normally only has VGA and/or s-video outputs. The S-video output is obviously out of the question because...

Quote 3: Rules out any other video signal:
"So then one might ask "Can I send in a external signal like a VCR?" No. There are no extra aux inputs. The xbox itself does not have the facilities for accepting outside signals. I have no way of taking a camcorder signal, for example, and patching it into the X-box video processor."

Now we get to the part where my understanding is very limited. How difficult is it to modify the navbox to accept a VGA signal instead of the RGBsync required by the NAV screen?

After doing the google dance I found this link to custom circuit that converts VGA to RGBsync: http://www.hut.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/vga2rgbs.html
A commercial site selling VGA to RGBsync converters is here http://www.magenta-research.com/products/products/product_set3/VideoAdapters.html

The most interesting find was someone who built a custom converter for use with ATI Radeon video cards: http://www.idiots.org.uk/vga_rgb_scart/

Anyway, I'm no expert in this and I'm just going by what Generator has already explained and doing a little extra research.

BTW, Generator, very impressive work and results! When that XBox hits $99 it might just become waaay too hard for me to pass this little mod up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
Re: DVD on NAV or "NAVBox" now $149.99

Dan,

You seem to be VERY knowlegeable about how displays work. I wish I had that in-depth ability.

I have a non-NAV Murano, but would like to change to a color screen. Possibly to an "aftermarket" screen...

Hopefully you don't think I am too crazy...

Matthew


I had an idea... Tell me what you think. If I got the radio unit for a Murano with NAV, do you think I could convert the signal to say RCA, to work on an aftermarket screen? Then I coud show the Radio and Climate information on an aftermarket screen, and the zillion dollar Nissan Display would not be needed....

I guess my goal is to some how get the Radio and Climate control information that is shown on my LCD Screen, somehow to appear somewhere else. Like a smaller "auxiliary" screen, or on the LCD that the DVD/Game console uses.

I would prefer the Nissan NAV system, that would make it easy, but it is not too cost effective...


generator said:
Most of you have seen my integration of XBox to the Nav screen. If you have not then look here:

MOVIE

Anyway, some of you have questions and I like to think I have the answers so allow me to explain the workings of the Xbox mod. My Xbox mod is less expensive than other solutions because of the way I process the image to be displayed on the nav screen. Perhaps the follwoing will make it a little easier to understand. The hierarchy of video signals is like this:

a) RGBSync (being the highest quality possible; this is the signal at the red, green and blue guns of a television screen and has a seperate sync signal)

b)High Definition Component Level

c) S-Video

d) Component video (what you see on the xbox)

e) Radio Frequency or RF transmission

As you move lower down the chain more signals that were once seperate become combined. The first had 4 seperate signals, the second has 3, the next 2 and so on.

Your nav screen uses RGBSync. It cannot accept what normally comes out of the xbox which is composite video and in some cases S-Video and High Def Video

Other folks get around this by splitting the composite signal into the necessary RGBS signal. This circuit is very complex and costly. This is why the AV units others are using cost 3-5 hundred dollars. Also the video quality is not optimal after its been un-combined.

My circuit is inexpensive because I make use of a very powerful video processor already available in the x-box. I configure the x-box to deliver a signal that I need for the NAV. I never have to deconstruct the signal, I let the x-box handle those expensive tasks. As a bonus I get the best possible signal. My interface focuses on processing of the SYNC signal, voltage regualtion, digital switching and some other minor things which is why it is less expensive.

So then one might ask "Can I send in a external signal like a VCR?" No. There are no extra aux inputs. The xbox itself does not have the facilities for accepting outside signals. I have no way of taking a camcorder signal, for example, and patching it into the X-box video processor. For me this is fine. The Xbox does everything I want. Plays DVD's, Games, MP3 library etc. This may not be what you are looking for though so keep that in mind.

How is audio processed? Audio is output thru standard RCA jacks and can be sent to the Bose Head Unit via RF Modulator or PAC interface (isolation transformers are highly recommended if using the PAC interface).

Can I add more monitors? Sure. While the NAV screen uses RGB the typical headrest monitor uses composite video. I supply one composite video output. (There goes that powerful little Xbox video processor again, doing multiple video formats at once). In mutli headrest monitor setups it is advisable to use a distribution amp.

How do I power the Xbox? I use a 300 watt peak/ 150 watt average inverter. I keep the inverter in the armrest area and my inverter does not get warm even being enclosed.

Does the inverter make noise? That is a fact of life folks. Inverters do not make true sine wave outputs. The output is very choppy and you MAY see some artifacts of that on the screen. Different inverters will yeild different results. Even folks who use the AVelectronics controller see these artifacts. I solved my noise problems with some clever gounding. Even those inverters that claim FULL SINE wave output may deliver high levels of RF interference in many cases.

Do I need to mod my Xbox to do the things that you do? Not really I could setup an Xbox to function in its native mode but you will not be able to do cool things with MP3's etc.

Can I install it myself? Sure. You only need to find a 12 volt power source and then cut and splice four wires that run to the nav screen. Another wire conected to a switch toggles the Xbox or NAV display.

Can I display the NAV map on the headrest monitors. Well yes you can but not with this interface. That would require a circuit more sophisticated and expensive, which I probably could develop but I dont really see a demand for it.

I will answer additional questions on this thread. Please ask questions here. If you PM me then others who may have had the same question never get a chance to see the answer.

Thanx
Dan
 

·
Nissan Enthusiast
Joined
·
197 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Got To Tinker With a G35 and Xbox

A guy local to me wanted to buy the NAVBOX so I told him to swing by my house. His car is really sweet and the install was even sweeter. It took less than a half an hour to make the connections on this car. The nav unit is conveniently located right above the glove box. Now that I got to see this car up close I know that Nissan is really doing theri homework when it comes to design, looks and performance. Below is a photo.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Generator, I'm not too familiar with gaming and xbox, can a modified Xbox be used just like a PC? I'm interested in MP3 and phone control software. The apps will be from mp3car.com

If it is possible, I'll be interested in your gizmo. It'll be for an FX. I'm in Long Island so I'd be local too.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
4,664 Posts
There's interesting information here... http://www.xbox-linux.org/Xbox_VGA_HOWTO

Including information on Hsync and Vsync signals, which may be useful when dealing with the Murano's colour display.

I found the following part, the most interesting...
Using the Xbox's internal sync signals
This method will deliver the best sync signals but is also the most difficult to build. You should have several years of soldering experience with SMD devices before trying this method.

The digital interface between the NVidia GPU and the Conexant chip uses a HSYNC and VSYNC signal. Unfortunately these signals are only used internally, they are not available on the AVIP.

It's not advisable to use the HSYNC and VSYNC signals directly, since the sync lines of a monitor are usually terminated with a 75 Ohm load. Instead you have to use a buffer to drive the signals. To make matters worse, the interface between the Conexant chip and the GPU uses only 1.5 signal voltage. However, some monitors are able to cope with this.

HSYNC is available at pin 35 of the CX25871, VSYNC at pin 36. I recommend to use two Schmitt-Triggers of a 74HC14 as buffers. The supply voltage of the 74HC14 has to be 1.5 Volt (available from pin 40 of the CX25871), otherwise the input threshold of the Schmitt-Trigger is too high.
 

·
Nissan Enthusiast
Joined
·
197 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
The xbox can be set up like a PC with a linux operating system on it. I dont know too much about it. Best to check xbox-scene for that type of information. I use EVOX which I believe is based on the NT Operating System kernal (not totally sure though)

As far as building an xbox to vga converter : There are already devices out there for this purpose. That is, to connect an xbox to a standard PC monitor. In the case of using that in a car it wont work. The FX guys have been trying to do that for the longest and have had no luck connecting a small pc to the nav screen. The problem is the VGA frequency. One of the guys even built a frequency divider circuit but still had scrambled video.
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top