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Well at the moment I am working on the circuit board layout for a few prototype boards.

Basically. the EQ board would be removed and a new board put in it's place that would provide buffered line outputs with jumper selectable settings for the internal amp. IE, you could choose to use the internal amp for say the rear speakers and then pre-outs for the fronts. or use the internal amp for the fronts and the rear pre-outs for subs etc. and if i can make it fit. I want to do a deluxe board with summed outputs for subs as well as 4 channel pre-outs.

I have found some sockets that would allow the new board to just be plugged in. But trying to get the sockets in the exact same place as the stock board is a bit of a challenge in the PCB layout program i am using. I "think" i have it figured out. But it is a slow process and i haven't had much time lately to work on it.

In the meantime. I think i have a Bose-o version radio on the way for experimenting with also.
Keep in mind that the BOSE systems (you call it Bose-o I think) have all outputs from the head unit going into an OEM amp through shielded wiring. The outputs of the amp then go to all the speakers; i.e. dash, front doors, rear doors, and spare tire woofer. Are you thinking the upgrade to the BOSE head unit will require rewiring? In an ideal design, no rewiring of the cabin harness would be necessary. But maybe that's not what you have in mind?
 
Hi Zero,

I think to make it easy, I have old bose amp which has a pig tail, so i think i need to connect audio out puts to amp near head unit and connect outputs from amp to same wires which we cut and I think i can keep the amp close to head unit instead of running all new wires till end and from there to speakers again

Please suggest it will work or not

Thanks

Srivick
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
I will do a write up of how to connect the Bose(-o) stereo to an aftermarket amp in another posting after i do some testing. I will also do a write up explaining the differences between a Balanced and Unbalanced audio connections. the description "balanced" gets some people confused. "Differential" would be a much better descriptor in all actuality.

But...You CAN connect a Bose(-o) headunit..directly to an aftermarket amp that HAS BALANCED INPUTS. Such as a Soundstream Reference series like a 644s or any of the ADCOM amplifiers.

MOST aftermarket amps have UNBALANCED inputs VIA RCA jacks. and a direct connection from the HU to the amp gets a bit more complicated. certain things need to be done with the wiring to make it work without having to use an adapter box and some amps will react differently etc. it gets a bit messy to try and explain.

The problem is that a HU with a BALANCED output has 2 hot wires of opposite polarity. But the +positive and -Negative outputs are hot in relation to ground. These work in a push-pull fashion against each other and will reject any noise or signal that is common to both wires. that is it's main benefit is noise rejection! and the reason it SHOULD be used my aftermarket companies. OEM's use it all the time! such as the Bose-O system. It just never caught on in the car stereo world as people didn't understand it. it has been the standard in the pro-audio world since.....well since FOREVER! quite literally.

where as a UNBALANCED output typically on RCA jacks has one Hot wire and one Ground wire. where the audio signal is always working against ground. Unbalanced connections came about as a cost saving measure for cheap consumer type products and has just stuck around as the defacto standard for home and now car audio gear.

Connecting an BALANCED output to an unbalanced input can be done in many ways. which is beyond the scope of what I am going to type here. But. lets just say you connected it up. Bal+ out to Unbal +in, and Bal-out to ground. what would happen. well you would be shorting out the neg side of the output directly to ground. this generally wont damage the Hu but it could due to noise spikes on that can happen on ground. it is generally just not the way to do it.

SOME amplifiers "float" the RCA jack ground to help reduce ground induced noise. and in which case you may be ok and it works just fine but you may get some alternator whine etc coming through. or it may work just fine depending on how they did they input section of the amp.

You can TRY connecting the BALANCED output to the speaker level inputs of your amp. the speaker level inputs are generally "floating" and not connected directly to ground. so this may work for you as well...

But again the BEST way is simply to use a car amp that HAS balanced inputs.
 
Discussion starter · #47 ·
Hi Zero,

I think to make it easy, I have old bose amp which has a pig tail, so i think i need to connect audio out puts to amp near head unit and connect outputs from amp to same wires which we cut and I think i can keep the amp close to head unit instead of running all new wires till end and from there to speakers again

Please suggest it will work or not

Thanks

Srivick
yes this will work fine. but you may need to look at the electrical wiring diagram. the wire colors may not be the same. I know that the Bose-o stereos had the plugs that connected to the radio spliced about 6" back from the radio to shielded wires. which was a crappy way they did it at the factory! but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

Zc
 
So as far as purchasing amps, what are we supposed to look for when buying? For example here's a Pioneer GM5400T.

125 watts RMS x 2 @ 4 ohms
190 watts RMS x 2 @ 2 ohms
380 watts RMS x 1 (Bridged) @ 4 ohms
MOSFET power supply
Selectable bass boost (0, 6, 12 dB at 50 Hz)
Hi-volt input level control (400mV ~ 6.5V)
2/1 Channel operation
2-Channel speaker-level inputs
Balanced Isolator Input Circuit
2-Channel RCA inputs
Heavy duty heatsink and a sub-heatsink for maximum heat dissipation
RCA level inputs
Screw terminals
Selectable low-pass filter
CEA-2006 compliant amplifier
Frequency response: 10-50,000 Hz
Dimensions: 10-1/2"D x 13-5/8"W x 2-1/2"H

Is the text in bold what your reffering to?



I will do a write up of how to connect the Bose(-o) stereo to an aftermarket amp in another posting after i do some testing. I will also do a write up explaining the differences between a Balanced and Unbalanced audio connections. the description "balanced" gets some people confused. "Differential" would be a much better descriptor in all actuality.

But...You CAN connect a Bose(-o) headunit..directly to an aftermarket amp that HAS BALANCED INPUTS. Such as a Soundstream Reference series like a 644s or any of the ADCOM amplifiers.

MOST aftermarket amps have UNBALANCED inputs VIA RCA jacks. and a direct connection from the HU to the amp gets a bit more complicated. certain things need to be done with the wiring to make it work without having to use an adapter box and some amps will react differently etc. it gets a bit messy to try and explain.

The problem is that a HU with a BALANCED output has 2 hot wires of opposite polarity. But the +positive and -Negative outputs are hot in relation to ground. These work in a push-pull fashion against each other and will reject any noise or signal that is common to both wires. that is it's main benefit is noise rejection! and the reason it SHOULD be used my aftermarket companies. OEM's use it all the time! such as the Bose-O system. It just never caught on in the car stereo world as people didn't understand it. it has been the standard in the pro-audio world since.....well since FOREVER! quite literally.

where as a UNBALANCED output typically on RCA jacks has one Hot wire and one Ground wire. where the audio signal is always working against ground. Unbalanced connections came about as a cost saving measure for cheap consumer type products and has just stuck around as the defacto standard for home and now car audio gear.

Connecting an BALANCED output to an unbalanced input can be done in many ways. which is beyond the scope of what I am going to type here. But. lets just say you connected it up. Bal+ out to Unbal +in, and Bal-out to ground. what would happen. well you would be shorting out the neg side of the output directly to ground. this generally wont damage the Hu but it could due to noise spikes on that can happen on ground. it is generally just not the way to do it.

SOME amplifiers "float" the RCA jack ground to help reduce ground induced noise. and in which case you may be ok and it works just fine but you may get some alternator whine etc coming through. or it may work just fine depending on how they did they input section of the amp.

You can TRY connecting the BALANCED output to the speaker level inputs of your amp. the speaker level inputs are generally "floating" and not connected directly to ground. so this may work for you as well...

But again the BEST way is simply to use a car amp that HAS balanced inputs.
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
well...I would guess not. and I know this gets confusing. they dont make it very clear as to WHAT is balanced. I am assuming they mean the speaker level inputs. But looking at the JL audio amps

JL Audio 300/4v2 Amplifiers - Car Audio Amps & Amplifiers
They claim balanced-Differential inputs and notice how the RCA's are isolated from the chassis.


But more importantly. take a look at the soundstream amps. they are all listed as balanced inputs and when you look at the connector line up. you see RCA's, speaker level AND balanced inputs

Soundstream Amplifiers

Take a look at this photo from an old soundstream manual. there is a seperate mini-din input that has a +Left Input, a -Left input AND a +Right Input and a -Right input.
 

Attachments

Discussion starter · #50 ·
Not many amps have these types of inputs. I found a list on another forum

"here is a list of amps I have that use "balanced"inputs Adcom, Soundstreams with the mini-din connector, ESX, Coustic DR, orion X-treams, Phoenix ZPs, and Zapcos"

it looks like companies like JL audio are doing balanced inputs on RCA's and the shield part is just isolated from the chassis ground. which would work. I would get a 4 channel amp that way you can just splice it in place directly for the bose-o amp.

Now the other interesting thing you can do with balanced outputs...is bridge a standard stereo amp. By connecting say the
Left + HU output to the amps Left Channel + input (center pin of the RCA)
and
Left - HU Output to the Amps Right channel + input

then connect the speaker across the + speaker terminals of the amp. much like you would do by flipping the "bridge" switch on the amp. you can achieve the same effect. but the gain controls of the amp need to be very closely matched as far as level goes.

You would of course need 4 stereo amplifiers to do 4 car channels.
 
Discussion starter · #51 ·
Looking at the wiring diagram for an 06 Murano with Bose-o system. Notice how Channel 1 for example has a FR LH+ AND a FR LH- Signal and the same goes for channel 2.

So you would take the White CH1 FR+ wire and connect it to the Sounstream L+ input and then take the Black L- wire and connect that to the L- input.

Take the Yellow R+ wire and connect it to the soundstream R+ input and the Brown Wire and connect it to the R- input.

The 6 pin mini din is the same as a PS2 Mouse or keyboard connector. you can go to a computer store and find an extention cable or use an old mouse or keyboard cable and cut it, test the wires and figure out which is which with a meter and then splice the cable onto the MO's harness.
 

Attachments

You say all the soundstream's have balanced inputs, but looking at there online catalog, I can only see the human reign series and reference series have them.


Not many amps have these types of inputs. I found a list on another forum

"here is a list of amps I have that use "balanced"inputs Adcom, Soundstreams with the mini-din connector, ESX, Coustic DR, orion X-treams, Phoenix ZPs, and Zapcos"

it looks like companies like JL audio are doing balanced inputs on RCA's and the shield part is just isolated from the chassis ground. which would work. I would get a 4 channel amp that way you can just splice it in place directly for the bose-o amp.

Now the other interesting thing you can do with balanced outputs...is bridge a standard stereo amp. By connecting say the
Left + HU output to the amps Left Channel + input (center pin of the RCA)
and
Left - HU Output to the Amps Right channel + input

then connect the speaker across the + speaker terminals of the amp. much like you would do by flipping the "bridge" switch on the amp. you can achieve the same effect. but the gain controls of the amp need to be very closely matched as far as level goes.

You would of course need 4 stereo amplifiers to do 4 car channels.
 
Discussion starter · #53 ·
Umm no sorry if you got the wrong idea. the list i found from someone else post on another forum. not all soundstreams have balanced inputs. sorry for the confusion. just some do. it's a hard thing to find actually. which is really dumb as it has some many benefits. sorry for the confusion.
 
Discussion starter · #55 ·
Yup, those look like they would work out well. The correct way would be to buy a mini din plug and make your own cables but that is a huge pain and those connectors melt easily. Keyboard ps2 cables will be a little thicker and easier to work with. Keep the cable short and it Will work ok
 
Discussion starter · #58 ·
Also. I found that the display controller for a Bose-O system will connect and work with a base system and allow either to function on the bench. I have not seen what the display does yet but it should be fine.

Also. there are several different versions of Base and Bose-O headunits. not all are the same The units I have here are the 2007 PN-2529(base) and a 2004 PN-2530(Bose) systems. The electrical plugs are identical on these units.

You CAN swap a these units. as long as you address the amp/speaker wiring issues.

Swapping a Base stereo into a Bose-O equipped vehicle is the easiest. swap headunits, remove Bose-o amp. cut the plugs off the input and output side of the Bose-o amp and wire together to bypass amp. replace speakers and done.

Putting a Bose-o headunit in place of a base system is a bit more difficult only because the front outputs are on the same plug as the power. so you would have to by a set of aftermarket plugs from Scosche or metra etc. and make a "T" plug that plugs into the back of the radio and plugs into the stock harness and splices the power between them. then run audio lines from the HU to an amp located elsewhere and speaker lines back from the amp and splice them into the harness plugs...its messy. and still replace the speakers.
 
Also. I found that the display controller for a Bose-O system will connect and work with a base system and allow either to function on the bench. I have not seen what the display does yet but it should be fine.

Also. there are several different versions of Base and Bose-O headunits. not all are the same The units I have here are the 2007 PN-2529(base) and a 2004 PN-2530(Bose) systems. The electrical plugs are identical on these units.

You CAN swap a these units. as long as you address the amp/speaker wiring issues.

Swapping a Base stereo into a Bose-O equipped vehicle is the easiest. swap headunits, remove Bose-o amp. cut the plugs off the input and output side of the Bose-o amp and wire together to bypass amp. replace speakers and done.

Putting a Bose-o headunit in place of a base system is a bit more difficult only because the front outputs are on the same plug as the power. so you would have to by a set of aftermarket plugs from Scosche or metra etc. and make a "T" plug that plugs into the back of the radio and plugs into the stock harness and splices the power between them. then run audio lines from the HU to an amp located elsewhere and speaker lines back from the amp and splice them into the harness plugs...its messy. and still replace the speakers.
Ok, this is great information. What about adding an iPod interface to the Bose-o system? I am asking because I am going to do everything you suggest in this thread, but will add iPod communication and possibly and LED screen or DVD.
 
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