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Discussion starter · #63 ·
Haven't had much shop time lately. But I did manage to get my Bose-O 6 disc changer working again. I bought this unit off eBay from a junk yard. when it arrived it was immediately obvious it came from a badly wrecked vehicle. the whole chassis was tweaked and the cassette and cd didn't work. there was evidence that someone had tried fixing it and gave up.

I disassembled the whole unit and cleaned up the tape deck section first and managed to get the motors working and now it will load tape and play. then i removed the CD section and disassembled the top half and carefully straitened all the bent metal pieces inside. man this thing must have been SMACKED HARD! everything was bent. but now it works and will load and play cd's.

These things are REALLY fragile. lots of moving parts, cheap stamped metal, crappy tolerances, and just not a great...thing... the single disc really is a much better choice for reliability.

I was hoping this was one of the models that played MP3 cd's but when it arrived i realized it was an 04 and does not play MP3's.

it "might" be possible to swap a single disc into the Bose-o head unit with some main board modifications. I might look into that if i get real ambitious...

Here are some bench photo's. Note the connection of the Display controller to make the stereo work.
 

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Discussion starter · #64 ·
I managed a few minutes at the shop this evening while waiting on a customer to arrive. I made a CD with a 1khz 0dbfs (max volume) test tone on it and measured the RMS output level of the base system from the output of the volume controller IC. I measured a maximum of 1.6vrms and 20mv at 7 volume steps, 98mv at 15 volume steps and 758mv at 25 steps.

7-15 volume steps seems to be about the normal listening level with 25 steps being about the loudest before distortion with the base system.

So using those numbers, we can determine if that is enough to drive an amplifier to full power. Looking at the Soundstream amp i plan on using. i see the input is adjustable from 200mv-2v and 500mv-5v in 2 ranges. what they don't tell you. is what does that mean? is that 200mv for full output?? or 200mv for 1 watt output?? there documentation is not real clear. So I will have to do some testing of the soundstream amp to find out what input level it takes to get full output.

IF the amp can be adjusted for full output with a 1vrms input. that would be a pretty good match as a simple unity gain buffer driver could be used. adding a 6db boost wouldn't be hard at all, but it adds more parts to the board. couple more resistors is all. but that takes up board space.

I also measured the balanced outputs from the Bose-o headunit. 38mv@7steps, 75mv@10steps, 243mv@15 steps, 2.54v@25steps, and 5.4v at max volume. which with balanced outputs is about what i expected.

info to chew on...all for now.
 
here is a composite of the front and rear curves overlaid so you can see what all is going on!
I thought I had a work-around for the EQ, but it did not pan out. I figured if there was a preset EQ curve in the iPod that was the inverse to what you found then the resulting output would be flat. (Is that a correct assumption, Zero Cool, or am I simply just spitting upwind?) Unfortunately, nothing was close. Apple allows you to create a custom EQ in iTunes but it does not transfer over to the iPod. Oh well. Are there any iPod hackers out there with an alternative approach?

-njjoe
 
7-15 volume steps seems to be about the normal listening level with 25 steps being about the loudest before distortion with the base system.
ZC-

When you say "steps" are you referring to the numbers that appear on the MO's information screen as you change the volume?

Thanks for all of the great "discovery" work you are doing on the radio.

-njjoe
 
I'm still anxiously waiting for the ah-hah moment when ZC provides an economical fix. I'll tear my head unit apart to apply it for sure...within reason of course! :D
 
Discussion starter · #68 ·
Volume Steps - The digital volume control IC inside has a certain number of steps. each step increases the volume a little bit. each click of the volume control is one step louder. each click corresponds to one number higher on the display as well. so 7 clicks up = 7 bars shown on the display.

I have the base stereo running in the shop right now with the EQ board removed. you just have to be handy with a soldering iron to be able to remove the board and then solder 4 wires to 8 pins to bypass the internal eq.
 
Discussion starter · #69 ·
I managed to purchase a display connector for a reasonable price from a very nice eBayer! I got it all hooked up and i now have the display working and learned a few things...which i didn't expect...I have 2 radios here in the shop. a base model radio and a Bose-O radio. it seems that the MO that the Bose-O came out of must have had Nav. or maybe all Bose-O radios have nav or something as the settings menu in the Bose-O stereo shows things like GPS-clock setting etc that the base system doesn't have. so there must be some commands stored in the faceplate from the Bose-O system that are different...hmmm very interesting.

Now that i have a working display. I can play around a bit more with some ipod adapters
 
Any comment on the difference between a BOSE stereo with a button labelled CAT/Folder and one labelled SEEK/Track? This seems to be a big compatibility sticking p;oint for many of the IPOD adapters.
 
All of the BOSE radios have the NAV clock setting displays, non NAV vehicles don't do anything with it. I think the clock is driven from the NCU/GPS in a NAV vehicle, where it is driven from the DCU in non NAV vehicle (with color display). I also think NAV specific DCUs do not support a clock if installed in a car without NAV. I have one of these DCU on the shelf....
 
Discussion starter · #72 ·
There are actually 4 radio models for the 1st gen Mo's. Most seem to have the Base PN-2529H or Bose PN-2530H but there are 2 other models that have the AUX port on the back. I haven't figured out what version of the MO get's these radios. or IF the Mo's even get these radios. this same chassis PN# is used in several vehicles with different face plates apparently.

The radios that have the aux port just need a simple adapter cable to get audio into the radio. and these must be the radios without the CAT button etc.

and now that I have a workign display I can do some experimenting with the Bose-O radio and try removing the cassette section and rework the cass input as an aux input. the biggest issue is that there is a reel pulse that tells the MCU that the tape is playing ok. if it doesn't see this pulse it will eject the tape or give an error message maybe.

and I want to experiment with swapping a single disc cd player for the 6 disc trouble prone changer.
 
Zero...did you take a brake on this project over the holidays. I've been avidly waiting for an update! :D

I'm hungry for more...
 
Discussion starter · #77 ·
The shop is heated but the MOP isnt! LOL! well i have to warm place to work on it. next step is to mock up some pre-outs and do some in vehicle testing. the biggest issue is proper grounding. if it is not done right a ton of alternator noise will be heard. so you have to isolate the ground to reduce the ground loop currents so i need to play with that a bit.

now that the holidays and such are over i can start getting back to it. in the meantime i have been working on a subwoofer project for the MO. i picked up a pair of Tymphani LAT subwoofers. a LAT500 and a LAT700. turns out the 700 is way to big to fit but the 500 should be a nice setup!
 
EQ board by-passing project

Finally I got a chance to by-pass the EQ board in my 2007 Murano Base radio HU. Thanks Zero Cool for your valuable information and illustration!

Since I don't have advanced soldering station, I used an alternative method to remove the EQ board (see pic1) -- I used a rope to go under the board, melted the solder simultaneously on all connections (3-4) at one corner, and pull the string to force it to separate from the pin. Once separation was observed, I moved on to the next corner, since I could only bend the corner of board so much. So in summary the goal here is to slightly bend the corner and repeat the action for all corners until the whole board comes off.

It turned out the pulling was much harder than I thought, although I still managed to remove the board. Running the rope under each corner did take lots of patience. A caveat is if you are pulling hard, you have to make sure the solder on the main board does not come off or even loose, since the pin itself is a good conductor of heat. So it is best to use high temperature and melt the solder and pull the corners the least number of times and as quick as possible.

I have to warn you that this method does not save the EQ board since the pulling could easily peel of the copper on the board, making the EQ board useless. This is because the PCB board is double-sided and the copper lines are extremely delicate. Anyway who wants the EQ board if you have decided to get rid of it anyway? However, this method does result in a clean pins on the main board and that's what matters. (see pic2).

Next step is straight forward -- I followed the labels on the EQ board to by-pass each channel with wires. In my case I used color coded ones and marked the channel names on the caddy for in future reference.

Another caveat: If I were to do it again, I would definitely use much thinner by-passing wires -- it would make the job a lot easier. Or maybe bundled signal wires with a ground shield would be the best.

From the sound test after the HU was put back in the MO, I did find the bass to fade a little bit, but the gain on the mid- and high- ranges turned out to be satisfactory. This confirms Cool Zero's EQ charts. Now I feel confident to move on to replace the speakers. Another reason I like the level / unpolished sound is because I listen to lots of classical music. Bass is not a big issue for the genre.

Overall I spent about 2 hours for the job including removing the HU from the car and learning the screw positions and disassembling order. The outcome is certainly worth the time.
 

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well....In short...You HAVE to add an amplifier. The output of the bose-o radio is NOT designed to drive speakers directly. you do NOT have to add a (sub)woofer.

In fact, you are in a great position to do a full custom stereo mod as the Boes-o headunit HAS line level outputs already! but they are balanced Line level outputs and most car stereo's have unbalanced inputs(which is REALLY DUMB!).

A short and very very simplistic view of Balanced outputs VS Unbalanced outputs.
1- unbalanced is typically an RCA jack/plug, Balanced or "pro" outputs can be found on proaudio equipment, amps and mixers etc is typically on "XLR" type plugs.

2- Balanced audio connections provide a large degree of noise rejection. Unbalanced cables have ZERO noise rejection.

3- Balanced audio works like 220V in a house, Unbalanced works like 120V in a house. IF you understand how that works. it is easier to understand how audio works. 220V has 2 hots and ground isnt even needed. 120 uses one hot and neutral which is tied to ground at the panel.

A cars noisey electrical environment is the PERFECT place for balanced audio connections but for some DUMB reason...aftermarket audio gear never caught on. but some have tried!


So, The EASIEST way to add an amp is to find one with balanced inputs. Some soundstream amps like the reference and rubicon series have balanced inputs. but they use an odd 6 pin mini din plug and as far as i know, no one makes adapter cables. But you could make them yourself. the old and VERY good Adcom series of amps have balanced inputs as well.

or you will need a Balanced to unbalaced converter at the amp...or...you could experiment with connecting the balanced outputs to the speaker level inputs on an amp. this usually "floats" the inputs and will allow a balanced connection without issue. you just have to crank the amp input up as high as it can go and you may notice you have to turn the radio up slightly higher then normal. you can also try just connecting the balanced HU outputs to the RCA's on the amp. it may work ok like that too. haven't tried that yet.

You will need to run new cables from the Headunit to where ever you are going to put the amp. and new speaker wires from the amp back to the car stereo harness or to your speakers. you will need plugs that will fit the headunit and that plug into the harness. it is not as hard as it sounds.

In the end, the results will be very good. However, the Base stereo has an EQ built in to correct for the bad response of the stock speakers. so with the Bose-o headunit, it does not have that built in eq so with stock speakers, it may not sound great.

No matter what you do. it will not be a plug-n-play affair. there will be some work involved to get that Bose-o headunit to work, but it can be done!
SO How whould I go about connecting the balanced outputs of the radio to the RCA inputs of the amp? would I hook the + to the center and the - to the outer shield of the coaxile wire? or would I hook both of them together on the center and ground the outer shield? or would I just hook the + to the center and leave the - out and hook ground to the outer shielded wire?
 
Zero Cool, thanks for this great thread! Now I have a question for you, you said that a Soundstream Reference Amp is compatible with our Bose system, now do I need to use a PAC OEM-1 to be able to install this amplifier or not needed?

And since you've already taken the stereo off of a MO, will the Soundstream Amp fit in the same place of the original Amp?

I'm looking to install the Soundstream Reference 4 chan 400Watts
 
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