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No codes/stalling&rough idle/bad gas mileage

15K views 7 replies 3 participants last post by  tjq100  
#1 ·
I've run out of ideas so hoping someone here will have a good suggestion. I have a 2004 SL AWD with 185k miles. I bought it with 20k miles on it 12 years ago and it's been reliable the entire time. Over the last year, however, the car has stalled out on me a few times. This has happened at speed on the highway (literally engine sputters and cuts out at 75mph) and after decelerating (like when coming off the highway onto the exit ramp and approaching a light). I've also had it die while just at idle. See attached video I just took tonight...it doesn't quite stall but it's a good example of what it does at idle every once in a while (see between 15 and 40 seconds and again later in the video). Note, there is no one in the car so when the engine RPMs recover, it was all on its own.

I took it to the Nissan dealer a few weeks ago and they had no firm ideas. Instead, they suggested repairs to the tune of $3000 but told me nothing was coming up in the computer. Again, no CEL, no codes. The only light on is the ABS light That's been on for the last 5 years, so I doubt that is causing my current issue. The ABS actuator was the majority of the repair cost the dealer suggested but they also wanted to flush and replace all fluids, replace sensors, etc. but, of course, no guarantees. When I hear "engine flush" I just run away.

After I told the dealer to pound sand (and paid their dumb $115 diagnostic fee), I picked up an ODB2 scanner. Still no codes. However, the "Mode 6" scan picked up an error "Rich to lean sensor threshold voltage constant". Still, no CEL and no codes (active or pending) from the scan.

This scanner also allows you to watch live data. The Bank 1 Sensor 1 O2 sensor had a near constant voltage (.285 nearly all the time with very rare movement to .3 or down to .27). The other O2 sensor vary up and down regularly as one would expect (except the Bank 1 Sensor 2 is generally reporting rich in the .6-.8 range telling me its running rich). I replaced the Bank 1 Sensor 1 O2 sensor and did idle air relearn but little changed (the sensor voltage changes more often and I've seen some higher and lower readings but it still generally stays at or about .285). The "Rich to lean sensor threshold voltage constant" error did, however, go away.

Figuring there was only one other sensor that is unique to the "rear" or "bank 1" cylinders, tonight I replaced the rear camshaft position sensor. After doing the idle air relearn, I took it for a test drive and saw no difference. It even stalled on me once at a stop sign for good measure.

Even after the stall, there is no CEL and no codes in the computer (active or pending). Mode 6 and live data all come back seemingly in normal ranges other than the bank 1 sensor 1 O2 sensor stuck at .285 most of the time.

I also tried looking for air leaks into the intake by spraying starter fluid along the intake hoses. That had no effect.

Spark plugs and wires were replaced about 2 years ago (probably less than 20k miles ago).

Gas mileage is down to about 14.5mpg on a route to and from work that used to give me 19. Best I get on the highway is maybe 16-17. I used to get north of 20.

I'm kind of at a decision point...the car needs tires but I refuse to buy them unless I can fix the stalling issue. If I can't fix it, I'll suck it up and buy something new. But, I'd rather hold off on that another year or two if I can.

Any and all suggestions welcome.


https://youtu.be/5F13n7qtp_I
 
#2 ·
I had similar symptoms last year although I did have a CEL code for one of the camshaft position sensors. I replaced both sensors under the premise that if one has failed the other one is probably not too far behind.

From your extensive and impressive diagnostics I suspect your stalling is timing related. I would suggest replacing the other camshaft sensor and the crankshaft position sensor. I've seen a few cases where an intermittent crankshaft sensor caused stalling issues but was not constant or frequent enough to trigger the CEL.

2006 Murano SL
255,600 miles
 
#3 ·
Thanks...when I got the one cam sensor, I thought about getting all three (2Xcam and 1xcrankshaft). But, I just can't seem to wrap my head around the logic of why the rear/Bank 1 Sensor 1 O2 sensor is reading near constant .295 volts even with a new O2 sensor. I get the occasional variance now (which didn't happen with the old one really at all) so this just seems to indicate a problem specific to the Bank 1 related cylinders. Just hate throwing money at it without some logic for why a given solution would work. But maybe I just need to give it a whirl.
 
#4 ·
OK, now I'm puzzled. It appears a steady voltage at or about .3 may very well be normal for the wide bind Air Fuel sensors that we actually have in front of the CATs.

What are Your OBDII O2 Sensor Voltage Readings? - Page 3 - Second Generation Nissan Xterra Forums (2005+)

Further, this forum is full of people reporting .3 for Bank 1 Sensor 1 and .6 for Bank 2 Sensor 1. That suggests what I am seeing is totally normal....

Now, perhaps, replacing the sensors could be the culprit. Who knows.

Hmmmm....just wish I had some sort of indication via code or live data to clue me in.
 
#5 ·
I know what you mean about just throwing parts at the problem. I have been guilty of that approach in the past. Just a couple of observations about the items you have checked so far:


  • Both the O2 sensors are fairly constant, albeit different. You also verified that there are no air leaks in the intake side. Together these would imply that your fuel/air supply to the engine is good (you could measure the fuel pressure just to be sure).
  • The spark plugs are relatively new and even if one (or more) of the injectors and/or coils were bad the engine would not run well but probably not stall especially at highway speeds.

If fuel, air, and spark are all good that would point to timing which is controlled by the ECM based on camshaft and crankshaft sensors. Incorrect timing will cause stalling and rough idle. You have replaced one camshaft sensor and the other is not reporting a fault. Maybe go straight to replacing the crankshaft sensor?

I know this is not necessarily a full-proof diagnostic approach but just trying to suggest possible causes for the problem.

Alex
2006 Murano SL
255,600 miles
 
#6 ·
Jmho but I learned my lesson changing cam/crank sensors that didn't throw a code.

Also each and every time I went into the relearn process via the steps involved it always stalled at least once before it learned what it needed.

Is the fuel pressure what it should be? I've been told a dirty MAF screen will make strange things happen.
 
#7 ·
I'm with youabout blindly replacing stuff. On the other hand, I'm trying to avoid buying a new car. if I can spend $200 and have a chance of fixing it vs spending 1000+ at the dealer with no guarantees, I'll risk the 200 bucks and some time. But as a rule, unless I know it's broken I'm not replacing it.

That said, I just bought the other two sensors. We shall see if that makes a difference.
 
#8 ·
Well, the cam and crankshaft sensors have been replaced but still having the issue. Did all the relearn steps (idle air, throttle position, etcand still no luck.

Live odb2 data tells me the long term fuel trim is high...about 16% on both banks and highway speeds. But still no codes.

Just wish the damn thing would throw a code and give me a clue...