Anyone else having problems with their brakes squeaking? Mine has been doing it for awhile every time I pull out of the garage in the morning. Read the same thing on freshalloy.com but nobody seems to have heard about any fix on this.
thecanuck
Not trying to bug you CREW219, I was just letting you know that the member who posted his rotors rusted, lived where the humidity is higher than here. I guess I mistakenly thought that you indicated I lived where there is no humidity available to rust the rotors, and to be honest I didn't want to be disagreeable and say that they rust here in the dester also.
I do think that a lot of the rust comes off on the side of the pad but some is also on the face. I believe that the deposition on the face may contribute to squealing. Additionally I was trying to provide my hypothsis into where squeal comes from. I also feel face rust the most, as it is the fresh surface as scrubbed by the pad upon braking.
Please take my inputs as simple posts, I am not directing my comments to anyone (unless so noted) just answering other posts in what I hope is an illustrative way.
Homer, You are right Rust can be eveywhere, I don't have squeal and did not see any rust when I painted the calipers, Guess I am lucky or that it has not shown up yet. Finally, I guess I talk (post) too much, I am just so enthused by the MO. It is exciting to have a vehicle again that I can "Play With"
I do think that a lot of the rust comes off on the side of the pad but some is also on the face. I believe that the deposition on the face may contribute to squealing. Additionally I was trying to provide my hypothsis into where squeal comes from. I also feel face rust the most, as it is the fresh surface as scrubbed by the pad upon braking.
Please take my inputs as simple posts, I am not directing my comments to anyone (unless so noted) just answering other posts in what I hope is an illustrative way.
Homer, You are right Rust can be eveywhere, I don't have squeal and did not see any rust when I painted the calipers, Guess I am lucky or that it has not shown up yet. Finally, I guess I talk (post) too much, I am just so enthused by the MO. It is exciting to have a vehicle again that I can "Play With"
Because it is normal. Otherwise, Permatex would not sell the lube at your neighborhood AutoZone or the factory Ferodos on my Z would not come w/ a packet of copper "stuff." Yes, even the factory Ferodos that the Nissan parts counter sells for my Z includes a packet of lube to quiet the brakes (the non-Track models don't include this paste).hfelknor said:
Without pulling out the 8th grade science book, sound is [basically, in a nutshell] air vibrating. If it's audible by humans, then the frequency is in the range that humans pick up. If it's audible by dogs (and not humans), then the frequency is in the range that canines pick up.
When you rub two surfaces together (such as a rotor and a brake pad), you're creating friction. That friction is creating a vibration. That vibration may be audible by humans if the frequency is in that range as a squeal. The anti-squeal paste dampens and alters the frequency of that squeal so it's not audible by humans.
And Nissan doesn't necessarily fix what is truly broken. If enough owners complain about steering feel, then Nissan will have a TSB on that too TO KEEP CUSTOMERS HAPPY. But that doesn't necessarily mean the steering is broken.
Like I said, brake squeal is a function of pad material and temperature. My guess is that for such a heavy vehicle, Nissan opted for relatively small (and lighter) rotors. Consequently, to achieve the same brake performance, you will have to go to the next level in pad material. Unfortunately, if the brakes aren't w/in their temp range (i.e. in the mornings when it's cold), then you will get a squeal. If you TRULY understand how brakes work, then you'll understand that I'm not feeding you a line of BS.
And, unless the pad compound is the same, the fix you received further proves my point regarding the characteristics of pad compound and temperature.
I bet my Z w/ my Hawk Blue racing pads (which will destroy rotors if the pads aren't up to operating temp, BTW) squeals MUCH louder and MUCH longer than anybody's factory pads on their Murano on the street (they get up to temp at the track and the squeal goes away).
And compare the curb weight, rotor size, payload capacity, towing capacity, and pad compound of these vehicles w/ the Murano. For a 3800lb vehicle (excluding payload and towing weight), 12.6/12.13" rotors are tiny. In comparison, my 3200lb Track model Z has 12.8/12.7" rotors (and I still need race pads to stop at the track!).
Brake components are not rocket science, in fact, Nissan probably shares the same brake components w/ some of the other Nissan/Infiniti line up. And the calipers and rotors are probably outsourced from a parts supplier that supplies same design calipers and rotors (but different size) for other automotive OEM.
Michael.
Regarding rotors, they are the run-of-the-mill iron rotors. They're not ceramic like on the Ferrari Enzo or Porsche 911 GT-3. And clean iron surfaces w/ moisture will rust. If the brakes are bedded-in correctly, then the rotors will have a tint (usually blue); that area will be more rust-resistant.
GD, when brake pads are properly bedded-in, then the rotor face should have a tinted hue (see my post above).GripperDon said:
The purpose of bedding in brake pads is to:
1- burn off the binding chemicals in the pad; if these chemicals are not burned off, then the gas that is generated when they boil will cause pad fade (the feeling when you're not stopping when you hit the brakes no matter how much pressure you apply to the brake pedal) by not allowing contact between rotor and pad.
2- transfer a thin film of pad material on the rotor face (hence, the tint); brakes work by two types of friction, adherrent friction and abrasive friction. Abrasive friction should be obvious. Adherrent friction is when pad compound molecules break and re-make bonds. In order for adherrent friction to work, there must be a thin film of pad material on the rotor. The pad molecules will break off the pad and make a bond w/ the pad molecules on the rotor face, vice versa.
If you see uneven deposition on your rotors (i.e. splotches), then you have overheated your brake pads. For the most part, the pad (if aggressive enough) will self-clean the rotors -- just be easy on the brakes and let the abrasive friction of the pad compound clean the rotor face.
Michael.
Everything mike said above is correct. Check the link I posted earlier for instructions on bedding.
Grip: no hard feelings (if you took it that way). I post to give information and to correct anything that might have been misunderstood. I was thinking along the same lines as you were when you were mentioning the rusting. Depending on the pad compound, some rust might get embedded in the pad but that won't really cause the sound issues. Mike got it right.
Dave
Grip: no hard feelings (if you took it that way). I post to give information and to correct anything that might have been misunderstood. I was thinking along the same lines as you were when you were mentioning the rusting. Depending on the pad compound, some rust might get embedded in the pad but that won't really cause the sound issues. Mike got it right.
Dave
The making and remaking of the bond is what I refered to in my post earlier. This repeated action of bond-release-bond, liberates some of the energy being absorbed by the braking action and a portion of that we rear as a squeal. The various kinds of fluids effect this process one of the way is to change the level of breakaway time there by altering the frequency produced.
So I guess we both have it right, The descriptions being from differing points of view.
In an eariler post you refered to pads seperating from backing. By the way the glue most reliable for pads (when glued obviously) is based upon Cashew nuts. While at Bendix one of my departments developed it, still in use today as having great high temperature properties, especially good for ceramatilics. Now! talk about squeal, that friction lab sounded like a bunch of pigs were having their tails twisted.
So I guess we both have it right, The descriptions being from differing points of view.
In an eariler post you refered to pads seperating from backing. By the way the glue most reliable for pads (when glued obviously) is based upon Cashew nuts. While at Bendix one of my departments developed it, still in use today as having great high temperature properties, especially good for ceramatilics. Now! talk about squeal, that friction lab sounded like a bunch of pigs were having their tails twisted.
Curses !
Bah, Humbug, the noise has returned. Mr squeal is back and meaner then ever. After going through hoops leaving the MO overnight so that the noise would be heard in the morning, after celebrating that the noise was confirmed by the dealer, after getting the TSB done and new pads, yada, yada. No satisfaction!!!
The squeal is there after just one day. I said I would post to update you folks if it did not work. Well, I'm posting and letting you know the TSB did not fix the cold pad back-up syndrom. Yes, it's one time in the morning and only in reverse but like many of you I like everything at showroom condition. My MO did not groan until 13000 miles, now I'm groaning.
Anyone have a fix? Anyone try Michael-Dallas's brake spray?
Bob1
Bah, Humbug, the noise has returned. Mr squeal is back and meaner then ever. After going through hoops leaving the MO overnight so that the noise would be heard in the morning, after celebrating that the noise was confirmed by the dealer, after getting the TSB done and new pads, yada, yada. No satisfaction!!!
The squeal is there after just one day. I said I would post to update you folks if it did not work. Well, I'm posting and letting you know the TSB did not fix the cold pad back-up syndrom. Yes, it's one time in the morning and only in reverse but like many of you I like everything at showroom condition. My MO did not groan until 13000 miles, now I'm groaning.
Anyone have a fix? Anyone try Michael-Dallas's brake spray?
Bob1
Gripper said: BAck in when you park at night.
Yeah, I actually thought of that but with a 2 door double garage and the Mo's rather wide footprint, I only have about 3 inch clearance on the mirrors. A little close for comfort navigating in reverse. I should also say, that squeak from the brakes will act up
after an extended sit at a parking lot. The old age of one year creeping up on the MO as now I have the brake squeal and a new bonus the 26 page post on the window tic.
After a year on a pretty new design, ehh, not that much to complain about. I'd still buy another one.
Bob1
Yeah, I actually thought of that but with a 2 door double garage and the Mo's rather wide footprint, I only have about 3 inch clearance on the mirrors. A little close for comfort navigating in reverse. I should also say, that squeak from the brakes will act up
after an extended sit at a parking lot. The old age of one year creeping up on the MO as now I have the brake squeal and a new bonus the 26 page post on the window tic.
After a year on a pretty new design, ehh, not that much to complain about. I'd still buy another one.
Bob1
Three inch clearance.... you are lucky!!!!
I live in a 1940 house.. and the garage I don't think was every designed for a car! I ahve about 2 inches and I have to back in otherwise due the driveway I can not fit in. I dream of a modern two car garage for the MO and the wife's car.
I live in a 1940 house.. and the garage I don't think was every designed for a car! I ahve about 2 inches and I have to back in otherwise due the driveway I can not fit in. I dream of a modern two car garage for the MO and the wife's car.
Sorry if I'm breaking protocol here... I read the first page and the last page...
Has anyone in the middle pages mentioned that glazing ususally occurs because of riding the brakes too long with too little pressure? I saw a lot of posts saying that people "baby" the brakes, and are "very gentle", etc., which is exactly what can cause glazing and hence sqealing. When you "baby" the brakes, you use less pressure and ride out the stop for a longer distance and a longer time, obviously -- this heats up the pads and rotors quite a bit and can easily cause glazing. I'm not saying you should nail the brakes hard at every red light, but "babying" them isn't necessary and isn't the best way to wear the brakes properly. "moderate" pressure is best... don't be too gentle and don't blast the pedal into the floor either.
Has anyone in the middle pages mentioned that glazing ususally occurs because of riding the brakes too long with too little pressure? I saw a lot of posts saying that people "baby" the brakes, and are "very gentle", etc., which is exactly what can cause glazing and hence sqealing. When you "baby" the brakes, you use less pressure and ride out the stop for a longer distance and a longer time, obviously -- this heats up the pads and rotors quite a bit and can easily cause glazing. I'm not saying you should nail the brakes hard at every red light, but "babying" them isn't necessary and isn't the best way to wear the brakes properly. "moderate" pressure is best... don't be too gentle and don't blast the pedal into the floor either.
I'm at about 22k miles and I noticed the squeal when the temperatures here got to about 50 degrees... I never read this thread before now, so it looks like I'll be calling up Nissan tomorrow to make an appointment to get this TSB performed!
It (the squeal) is really irritating and I'm pretty sure that anyone within 3 or 4 houses can hear it when I back out in the morning. I have enough room to back into my garage, but why should I have to do that after dropping $30k on a car? My 98 Explorer NEVER had a squealing problem...
It (the squeal) is really irritating and I'm pretty sure that anyone within 3 or 4 houses can hear it when I back out in the morning. I have enough room to back into my garage, but why should I have to do that after dropping $30k on a car? My 98 Explorer NEVER had a squealing problem...
VG. keep in mind I did the TSB without a fix. You will also need to do the overnight drop off because you know they won't "sing" for the tech when the pads heat up. Well, I got some new brake pads out of it but they did still squeal. Homer, did you say they are not new pads just different? Do you mean, same new stock pads in the box, yes? Don't tell me they grabbed some pads off a used Sentra!!!
For some unknown and odd reason, they DID NOT squeal today. Maybe they are seating or maybe the weather was just right, I'll watch them and report. VG maybe you can drive your MO to Atlanta and we can caravan over to see Michael in TX and he can put his special stuff on the brakes for us. I'll also take some of Special-K's advice and work that brake a bit more and not baby the pedal too much.
Gonzo, sell the house and get a bigger garage..priorities!!
Hey Grip, if you rub it in about your no squeal brakes, I'm going to have to ask the Grippee to smack you!!
Bob1
For some unknown and odd reason, they DID NOT squeal today. Maybe they are seating or maybe the weather was just right, I'll watch them and report. VG maybe you can drive your MO to Atlanta and we can caravan over to see Michael in TX and he can put his special stuff on the brakes for us. I'll also take some of Special-K's advice and work that brake a bit more and not baby the pedal too much.
Gonzo, sell the house and get a bigger garage..priorities!!
Hey Grip, if you rub it in about your no squeal brakes, I'm going to have to ask the Grippee to smack you!!
Bob1
Well, as I have said previously, the goop didn't work for me (Well, it may have worked for a few days.) .
That was what they tried first. That was before the TSB came out.
The new pads worked for me.
Still working.
And yes VG, it IS LOUD, isn't it?
People that call it a "squeak" are just not aware of the "size" of the problem.
I had my neighbors laughing at me after awhile and telling me I should have not bought an economy car. Grrrrrr.
It's all in an old thread somewhere here.
And there is NO REASON why you should have to back in and park.
Hope they seat in and all is quiet.
Homer
That was what they tried first. That was before the TSB came out.
The new pads worked for me.
Still working.
And yes VG, it IS LOUD, isn't it?
People that call it a "squeak" are just not aware of the "size" of the problem.
I had my neighbors laughing at me after awhile and telling me I should have not bought an economy car. Grrrrrr.
It's all in an old thread somewhere here.
And there is NO REASON why you should have to back in and park.
Hope they seat in and all is quiet.
Homer
I checked the parts list they did not change pads 05. Have a read here http://www.autoswalk.com/squealbrakho.html and here http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8f.16.html and finally here http://www.318ti.org/notebook/brake_squeal/
Talked to the service manager at Nissan of Brandon today and he said the TSB for the brake squeal doesn't work most of the time and he wants to take a look at it and possibly perform some different work. That's fine by me, because as long as it's a Nissan guy working under warranty, I'm happy.
Earliest appt he had was Tuesday the 4th, and it will probably be an all day appointment (getting the rocking driver's seat fixed and also getting my steering wheel radio control fixed), so he's lined up a loaner for me. I'll keep you guys updated on what happens. 22k miles into the Mo and I'm finally making my first Nissan service visit (other than a free oil change), so wish me luck!!
Earliest appt he had was Tuesday the 4th, and it will probably be an all day appointment (getting the rocking driver's seat fixed and also getting my steering wheel radio control fixed), so he's lined up a loaner for me. I'll keep you guys updated on what happens. 22k miles into the Mo and I'm finally making my first Nissan service visit (other than a free oil change), so wish me luck!!
OK, it took them most of the day to fix it (along with a couple of other minor things) but the Service guy at N.O.B. put new brakes on the front wheels and there was no squeal this morning when I left for work.
It was quite a fiasco getting the car in for service (battery died overnight somehow) and NOB's idea of "giving me a loaner car" was having Enterprise pick me up and make me wait even longer while they scrambled to find cars for the 15 people in the waiting room... luckily, the lady at Enterprise was real kind and put me in a 04 Ford Explorer.
Overall, the dealership stinks service-wise AND sales-wise... last time I buy a car from them, despite my love for my Murano!
It was quite a fiasco getting the car in for service (battery died overnight somehow) and NOB's idea of "giving me a loaner car" was having Enterprise pick me up and make me wait even longer while they scrambled to find cars for the 15 people in the waiting room... luckily, the lady at Enterprise was real kind and put me in a 04 Ford Explorer.
Overall, the dealership stinks service-wise AND sales-wise... last time I buy a car from them, despite my love for my Murano!
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