[Avantado]

I understand what you want to say, but that's a bit different in Germany. Finding a gearbox that has only done 50,000 km is almost impossible. A Nissan Murano with the year of manufacture that I found on the internet with the lowest mileage currently costs over €7,000. The vehicle was built in 2006 and has run 69,000 km.

Here you don't just go to any junkyard around the corner and find a well-preserved gearbox. And people like to cheat when stating the mileage. However, there are companies that, due to the regulations in Germany, also give a guarantee and not just a warranty for the removal and installation and the revision. Warranty is a legal obligation anyway. Of course, there is never 100% security. But my experience says that people like to cheat when selling such parts. As is not uncommon with the mileage of cars.

And here in Germany you won't even find such a casual workshop that will help you with installation and removal, or at prices for which you might be able to buy a new, used vehicle right away. I have a second Murano here, bought especially for spare parts, but also with a defective gearbox, and it has only done 170,000 km.

In addition, you will find a used gearbox here that is said to still work well for less than €1000. And that's cheap. On average, around €1500 to €2000 is called up here. Used, unknown condition.

No offense meant, but the circumstances may be a little different here than in other parts of the world, which is why the Murano z50 is very rarely seen on German roads. It's worth it if you want to keep it reasonable. Nevertheless, thank you for your feedback

 

[MuranoSL2003]

Thank you very much, I can't manage to remove the whole gearbox in my garage with my possibilities. All I can do is remove the lid and have a look. If the problem is not solved by cleaning and changing the oil, and this was done regularly, even every 5000 km, a specialist has to work on the transmission. I will not buy a used one, just a refurbished one.

Perhaps you meant to write you have been changing the CVT fluid every 50,000 km?

 

[Cryogenix1]

Also re comparing new with old parts, if you replace the mesh filter in the pan, ensure that its' neck is the same length as the old one, else the filter is to close to the pan and its pick up ability can be severely reduce and will give big problems from lack of adequate fluid flow.

A very good point.

Avantado, since it sounds like you're going to drop the CVT pan before heading out to the dealer, you might want to measure the length of the neck (or "pick-up" or "spout") on that existing internal metal filter and then measure the new metal filter to make sure the new one isn't longer. If it's longer it may get crushed against the bottom of the pan upon reinstalling the pan and that could create flow retrictions, as well as prevent the pan from seating correctly to the new gasket.

Once again, refer to the picture of my NEW filter. The end of the neck (the opening) appears to have been pressed against the bottom of the pan when I first installed it. I noticed the indentations when I dropped the pan a second time to inspect the magnets. Make sure it's not too long. In my case, I think the neck was already damaged and I just didn't notice it, because I felt no resistence when gently retightening the pan bolts.

 

[Avantado]

Thank you for all the answers,

Finally it works, but it's a little bit "scary". Just take a look at my video:

Murano Z50 Transmission

😎

 

[Cryogenix1]

That's a lot of metal shavings, but not too much sludge. Strange how the pan magnets are secured on later models, using a bolt and flat washer. My 2003 has raised nubs/bumps that the magnets simply seat over. The 2003 has a steel pan... Your as you said is cast alloy or something. You've really taken great care of your car. Looks very clean under the hood, and in the finished footage of the underside of the engine, exhaust and CVT housing you'd think you're looking at a brand new car in a showroom.

Have you tried to see if the CVTz50 app will perform that pressure test when stopped and in D? Sometimes, the test doesn't happen for 10 minutes, and sometimes it happens within a minute of stopping at a stop sign for a longer period of time. I'm just curious to know what the pressure test is showing.

Nice video. Thanks for sharing a slice of your world with us. Rocco is 30 years old? I've never heard of a dog living to that age. How old is Uno? Cool markings. Awesome that you built a ramp for that old guy. His bones, joints and muscles must be struggling to work. I hope your car stays running great.

 

[Avantado]

Thank you very much, but I really do not understand, why the magnets are not working? Maybe I should buy some strong Neodym-Magnets and replace the old ones, but maybe it could cause problems with the solenoid?

🤔

 

[Cryogenix1]

You didn't show what the mesh filter looked like, but in one shot when the lighting was good it looked fairly clean. That tells me your pan magnets are doing their job. I realize they're not catching everything, and maybe that's why you're saying they don't work. Maybe get a massive flat magnet and strap it to the outside bottom on the CVT pan.

Edit.... Okay I watched that portion of the video again and I see that the shavings on that cookie sheet are from the filter. Yeah that's quite a pile. It might need a magnet right below the opening of the filter. Maybe it's too costly where you are but you might want to do another drain and refill in a month or so just to see how bad the problem is. If you have a small endoscope you can avoid draining the pan by sending the camera down the fill tube to look directly at the pan magnets.

 

[Avantado]

The Metal flakes showing in the Black Pan came completely out of the filter (inside of it)

 

[Cryogenix1]

The Metal flakes showing in the Black Pan came completely out of the filter (inside of it)

Yeah I caught that the second tume I watched the video. The first time I had it playing while getting dressed and whatnot and had simply skimmed through it to see key areas of the job before getting ready to leave the house.

 

[MuranoSL2003]

I would imagine the magnet just catches what got past the filter, so the filter is doing majority of the catching...

The problem with magnets I would think is if they capture too much before being cleaned there's the potential of releasing a glob of now potentially magnetize particles that are now sticking together and traveling around, at least initially...

 

[Cryogenix1]

The problem with magnets I would think is if they capture too much before being cleaned there's the potential of releasing a glob of now potentially magnetize particles that are now sticking together and traveling around, at least initially...

I never thought of that...the magnetized particles dislodging and clinging elsewhere. Seems that might be more of a problem with the non-steel pans since those magged particles could circulate more easily around the pan instead of clinging to the pan.

I wonder how well a line magnet would work. Maybe create some kind of magnetic filtering system that ties into one or more cooling lines so as fluid travels through that filter housing containing magnets, metal particles will be caught and retained. Then to clean that system simply pinch off the rubber hose/line, remove the filter system, clean up the magnets and reinstall. That might be an efficient way of cleaning the fluid and an easier way to perform a quick metal check of the system.

 

[Avantado]

But let me ask question, is the type of metal Flake okay in the quantity as shown? 🤔

 

[Cryogenix1]

But let me ask question, is the type of metal Flake okay in the quantity as shown? 🤔

That might be impossible to answer. I would think that any amount of shavings could potentially create a problem somewhere, but I think to learn to what extent a certain amount would interfere with CVT functions would require extensive and exhaustive controlled testing and continual maintenance which I don't think anyone is going to undertake.

Is there some kind of normal amount of shavings that will always appear with wear? Would such an amount be allowable if coming from the belt elements as opposed to the pulley bearings? I don't know when my CVT began shedding metal with this used CVT since I never removed the pan prior to installing it. Was that amount always there since 120,000 miles? Did it happen over the course of years after installing it? Or did everything just happen to start falling apart prior to dropping the pan six years later?

The fact that you have the same codes I had, and that we both had lots of shavings yet our cars still ran fairly well might indicate certain parts are allowed a degree of wear without completely killing the CVT's ability to function. Or it could simply be luck.

 

[MuranoSL2003]

I think the nature of the way a CVT varies gear ratios is going to produce a fair amount of metal wear debris, it is normal for the design IMO...

This is why it's probably a good idea to perform a drain and fill every 30k or so. Ideally, drop the pan and inspect as well as clean the internal mesh filter as well.

A CVT that is experiencing more than normal slipping due to various reasons is going to produce a lot more wear debris of course... If this is noticed, I would stop driving it until the problem is resolved to avoid further and possibly terminal damage...

 

[Cryogenix1]

A metal belt continually moving at high revolutions on another metal surface is bound to create wear abrasion that will eventually make its way into the system. You hear of those drum/pulley bearings blowing apart, or the drive belt disintegrating and the metal elements falling off, etc. A wearing/worn flow control valve shouldn't be able to produce the volume of shavings we're seeing, so it's likely the bearings are wearing away or the conical shaft the belt rides on is constantly wearing way and those tiny metal flakes are the result. Or, the elements themselves are being worn away. Or maybe it's a combination of all three wearing over time. That's why I think the car accident scenario is credible for starting the CVT to fail prematurely if the car was in "gear" or in motion during a collision or impact. I think it would be similar to driving with different diameter tires, where when the car is bumped a wheel or two may suddenly slow down (or be forced to speed up) quickly while others may keep spinning at their normal speed or all spin at an abnormal speed, which ultimately causes an internal conflict of parts where things may bind or something won't move for a split second while the thing it's on IS moving, which may cause a minor wear/score line that starts the ball rolling for failure. Now everytime the belt rides over that score, it perhaps makes it deeper or wider and possibly starts to wear the contact elements into a different shape, etc, making the variating process flawed, inconsistent and eternally degrading.

 

[MuranoSL2003]

A metal belt continually moving at high revolutions on another metal surface is bound to create wear abrasion that will eventually make its way into the system. You hear of those drum/pulley bearings blowing apart, or the drive belt disintegrating and the metal elements falling off, etc. A wearing/worn flow control valve shouldn't be able to produce the volume of shavings we're seeing, so it's likely the bearings are wearing away or the conical shaft the belt rides on is constantly wearing way and those tiny metal flakes are the result. Or, the elements themselves are being worn away. Or maybe it's a combination of all three wearing over time. That's why I think the car accident scenario is credible for starting the CVT to fail prematurely if the car was in "gear" or in motion during a collision or impact. I think it would be similar to driving with different diameter tires, where when the car is bumped a wheel or two may suddenly slow down (or be forced to speed up) quickly while others may keep spinning at their normal speed or all spin at an abnormal speed, which ultimately causes an internal conflict of parts where things may bind or something won't move for a split second while the thing it's on IS moving, which may cause a minor wear/score line that starts the ball rolling for failure. Now everytime the belt rides over that score, it perhaps makes it deeper or wider and possibly starts to wear the contact elements into a different shape, etc, making the variating process flawed, inconsistent and eternally degrading.

I agree. Ever since you first mentioned it in this forum, it made sense to me. I think it may be a issue similar to bearing brinelling...

Google Search

 

[Cryogenix1]

Didn't know that's what it was called...brinelling. With regard to what's catching what and why there's isn't a magnetic drain plug or something magnetic closer to the filter pick-up, I have a thought...

If the circulation of fluid (in the pan area) starts from the magnets, then heads towards the drain plug and then up through the filter, it's possible the engineers didn't want to risk having a cluster of metal shavings that close to the pick-up where the strong upflow of fluid into the filter might agitate that cluster and draw larger quanities of shavings into the screen, potentially creating a more serious and faster restriction. Additionally, if you have magnets at only one end of the pan, the shavings are free to move around the pan possibly in somewhat of a swirling manner where they'll be captured primarily at one end (the end where fluid isn't being drawn back into the critical system) instead of having competing magnetic forces that might retard that swirling effect and impede the metal-harnessing process. I also think fluid return may be happening above the pan magnets, so as that fluid comes back from the land of metal and splashes down above the magnets the shavings will sink to the bottom and be contained. If that's what's actually happening, I think that's where magnets stand the best chance of capturing the largest amount of shavings. It's also likely the pitch of the pan when the car is on level ground is towards the magnetted end of the pan, further helping to direct shavings to the magnets.

I might be wrong. For all the videos I've watched about CVTs, I don't recall seeing one that discusses fluid flow/direction from start to finish.

 

[MuranoSL2003]

Didn't know that's what it was called...brinelling.

I should have been more specific about what I was referring too...

Did you check the Google search link I posted and read a little about what bearing brinelling is?

I was referring to the accident shock your CVT sustained in an accident. When a very tight tolerance component like a bearing is subjected to a shock it can cause microscopic indents that will deteriorate the component over time... At least that's my understanding...

I think it may also occur with wheel bearing hubs. A shock such as hitting a curb can cause bearing brinelling that may cause the bearing to fail over time. The only wheel bearing hub I had fail was the front drivers side. I feel it failed because I have a raised asphalt berm at the entrance of my driveway to control water. I tended to hit that berm fairly hard at times turning into my driveway...I live on a somewhat busy road. I think it may have caused my wheel bearing hub to fail. It was just a barely audible cyclic hum, but it bothered me so I replaced it.

 

[Cryogenix1]

I should have been more specific about what I was referring too... Did you check the Google search link I posted and read a little about what bearing brinelling is?

I was referring to the accident shock your CVT sustained in an accident. When a very tight tolerance component like a bearing is subjected to a shock it can cause microscopic indents that will deteriorate the component over time... At least that's my understanding...

...I have a raised asphalt berm at the entrance of my driveway to control water. I tended to hit that berm fairly hard at times turning into my driveway...I live on a somewhat busy road. I think it may have caused my wheel bearing hub to fail.

Yes, I knew what you were talking about with regard to the bearings, I just never knew that's what it was called.

When approaching a speed bump/table, railroad crossing or other oddly raised, road-spanning obstacle, I basically stop right at the point of contact with the tire and ever-so-slowly ride over the problem area. I don't want to throw my alignment out of whack and have to replace frontend parts sooner. Since most people behind me are typically in a hurry, I'm always slightly concerned that I might get rear-ended. I usually turn on the hazards as an extra level of precaution. I'd love to have a foot-activated button on the floor for the hazards. Kind of like the cylindrical floor switch for high-beams in older cars. The current hazards button is very awkward to depress quickly. BTW, with my 2003, I wasn't quite as careful gojng over bumps everywhere as I am now. Maybe that's yet another reason I went through so many CVTs...the jarring result and uneven landing might create similar conditions as an accident and cause CVT parts to track incorrectly for a split second, creating minor imperfections that get worse over time.

 

[Avantado]

I know such Problems about the Chrysler PT Cruiser. In course of static charges the wheel bearings can get damaged.That's why you'll find a lot of earth cables there, on the exhaust, on the hood, even on the shock absorbers. The cables often break and oxidize, and most don't swap them out.