The MO is already optimized for premium unleaded fuel (which takes advantage of advanced timing), so I doubt you will see any performance benefit by adjusting the timing further ahead.

 

Eclipse1825-

How did you propose to alter the timing on the MO?

-njjoe

 

Eclipse1825-

How did you propose to alter the timing on the MO?

-njjoe

I was about to ask the same.

 

Either he thinks it has a distributor, or he has access to a reprogram tool...

 

Yeah I'm betting it is an ECU program that adjusts the timing and fuel maps for higher octane gas. I suppose you can map it beyond 91 octane to 93, if you live somewhere that sells it (I know CA is 91 only).

 

I had it done to my 04 Armada through the dealership using the Consult 2. I have improved throttle response on the low end and better gas mileage. Because of the results of doing this to my Armada, I was just wondering if anybody had done it on the mo because reading some previous post people were saying the lack of power on the low end. This is the procedure:

Warm up vehicle.
On CONSULT 2 screen choose ENGINE
After communication with Convertor will display a bunch of choices.
Press WORK SUPPORT
See more choices, press TARGET IGN TIMING
Press UP x2 for 2 degrees, correction which you should be able to see.
Press UPDATE.
Now press BACK
On the menu screen find IDLE AIR VOL LEARN.
Press, and perform to correct your idle since you just raised it 75rpm with timing advance.

 

I had it done to my 04 Armada through the dealership using the Consult 2. I have improved throttle response on the low end and better gas mileage. Because of the results of doing this to my Armada, I was just wondering if anybody had done it on the mo because reading some previous post people were saying the lack of power on the low end. This is the procedure:

Warm up vehicle.
On CONSULT 2 screen choose ENGINE
After communication with Convertor will display a bunch of choices.
Press WORK SUPPORT
See more choices, press TARGET IGN TIMING
Press UP x2 for 2 degrees, correction which you should be able to see.
Press UPDATE.
Now press BACK
On the menu screen find IDLE AIR VOL LEARN.
Press, and perform to correct your idle since you just raised it 75rpm with timing advance.

We do this alot on the Maximas, Titans and Armadas.
But I have not done ona Murano, I doubt it will harm the CVT, because Nissans ECM's are pretty smart, they will not let you do anything that could harm the vehicle.
I will have to look into this some more....


Brian

 

The Service Manual shows the ignition timing at idle to be 15 degrees +/- 5 degrees (BTDC). I am assuming the dealer can advance it two degrees as long as it is still within the published parameters.

-njjoe

 

The Service Manual shows the ignition timing at idle to be 15 degrees +/- 5 degrees (BTDC). I am assuming the dealer can advance it two degrees as long as it is still within the published parameters.

-njjoe

Yeah they bump it up to 17 or just 2 degrees above the factory settings.

 

Hmm very interesting. I would be curious to know whether this work for the MO as well.

 

Well, at first I thought Nissan would not do this as it would void the warranty.
But, if the spec is really that Loosey Goosey +- 5 degrees........
Might be worth looking into. Especially for those of us with 93 octane generally available.


Homer

 

Well, at first I thought Nissan would not do this as it would void the warranty.
But, if the spec is really that Loosey Goosey +- 5 degrees........
Might be worth looking into. Especially for those of us with 93 octane generally available.


Homer

Yup. That is what I thought at first but the Dealership says it does not void the warranty because the Consult II will let them do it. Over on Club Titan and Club Armada probably over 25% of the members have done this. I got it done at my local dealer for $40 and it is one of the cheapest performance mods along with the air box mod. You can tell a difference when it is done. A lot more power at the bottom end and better fuel economy!

 

Yup. That is what I thought at first but the Dealership says it does not void the warranty because the Consult II will let them do it. Over on Club Titan and Club Armada probably over 25% of the members have done this. I got it done at my local dealer for $40 and it is one of the cheapest performance mods along with the air box mod. You can tell a difference when it is done. A lot more power at the bottom end and better fuel economy!

Has anyone dyno'ed before and after the timing adjustment mod?

 

Has anyone dyno'ed before and after the timing adjustment mod?

SCR38 over at Club Armada Runs his Armada in the quarter mile and after doing the advancement he shaved off a few tenths of second of his 1/4 mile and 0-60 times. He has ran it on the Dyno and it shows gains but he cannot tell because it starts showing the HP gains around 3200RPMs and the gains are below this. But there is a gain and it produces about the same performance as putting on an after market air box like a CAI. And some people have shown about 2mpg better also.

 

SCR38 over at Club Armada Runs his Armada in the quarter mile and after doing the advancement he shaved off a few tenths of second of his 1/4 mile and 0-60 times. He has ran it on the Dyno and it shows gains but he cannot tell because it starts showing the HP gains around 3200RPMs and the gains are below this. But there is a gain and it produces about the same performance as putting on an after market air box like a CAI. And some people have shown about 2mpg better also.

Cool. Ok then, who is going to try this out first on their MO?

 

Hm, I may think about it....

 

I might do it as well.
I love to glide off past ricers silently.... with their coffee cans blaring at stratospheric rpms.... meanwhile ole Mo's rpms are going the opposite direction.
I'm all for low rpm torque; it'll save me gas in the end.

 

"He has ran it on the Dyno and it shows gains but he cannot tell because it starts showing the HP gains around 3200RPMs and the gains are below this. "

I'm sorry, but this doesn't make any sense.
Any "gains" will show on a dyno run.
If there is no gain shown on the Graph below 3200, that's because there is no gain below 3200.

Is there a post over there there shows the Dyno graph?


Homer

 

"He has ran it on the Dyno and it shows gains but he cannot tell because it starts showing the HP gains around 3200RPMs and the gains are below this. "

I'm sorry, but this doesn't make any sense.
Any "gains" will show on a dyno run.
If there is no gain shown on the Graph below 3200, that's because there is no gain below 3200.

Is there a post over there there shows the Dyno graph?


Homer

A lot of dyno graphs for some reason only show output beyond a certain RPM - might be related to the type of dynometer software used.

Here is an example of one that starts at 2000 RPM.

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=719873

 

A lot of dyno graphs for some reason only show output beyond a certain RPM - might be related to the type of dynometer software used.

That is because most people are concerned with peak horsepower, and that only occurs at the higher RPMs.

-njjoe

 

Also the dyno numbers are most consistent when they can hold one gear and rev through the revband with it. With a conventional automatic, this can be a limitation. Not even sure how it is done with a CVT - SE manual mode?

 

Getting back on topic... What is the trade-off with advancing the timing 2 degrees?

There has to be a trade-off. If 17 degrees BTDC is better than 15 then why did the engineers not spec it as such? Reliability? Drivability?

-njjoe

 

Good question Joe.

Many moons ago, in carburetor era cars and no computers, I would advance timing more that car spec were calling for. Why happened? More torque, power, better fuel economy. I did not dyno the car but I knew that comparing with other cars. Trade off - engine was nosier and did not last that long. Though I am not sure if the reliability or lack of it was timing related.

These days with computers etc. knock sensors, better technology this does not have to be the case....I mean lack of reliability...

 

Getting back on topic... What is the trade-off with advancing the timing 2 degrees?

There has to be a trade-off. If 17 degrees BTDC is better than 15 then why did the engineers not spec it as such? Reliability? Drivability?

-njjoe

The explanation I was given is that if it came from the factory that way that people would just find another way to get more out of it. It is not harmful to the engine because the Consult II will not let you do anything that would harm the car. This is the programming machine from Nissan. It eliminates the lag in the lower RPMs and and makes it more responsive. It makes my Armada more fun to drive! And I get better fuel economy as I said. That's all I guess. And it only costs $40. I liked it on my Mada and I was just curious if anybody has done it on a MO. I think I might get it done but I will talk to JerseyParts first to see what he thinks.

 

I think that what happens is that the ECU can move the timing, based on Knock sensors, through a range. Let's say 10 degrees.
So if you have regular gas, on a hot day. the engine knocks, the ECU retards the timing down to +5 degrees and all is well.
If OTOH you have set the base to 17.......the ECU can only retard to +7 which might not be enuf to prevent knocking, running poor gas on a hot day.

And remember, ignition timing is interdependent upon emission controls also.
Advanced too far, the engine will have high NOX emissions.
So part of the timing is controlled by the O2 sensors regardless of where you have the base set.


Homer